747400sp
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Did American West Operated 727

Fri May 14, 2004 12:02 pm

Did American West ever operated 727. I was told that they did in the early eighties. Anybody who has information please tell me.

Thank You
 
andahuailas
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Fri May 14, 2004 12:06 pm

Its America West, not American west
 
4jaded
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Fri May 14, 2004 12:07 pm

As far as I know America West did not operate that type. However I could be wrong. If they did it was for probably a very short time.
 
UAORD
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Fri May 14, 2004 12:11 pm

America west did not operate any 727's, they started out with a couple 737's. They did operate for a short while service to Hawaii with a 747.

[Edited 2004-05-14 05:13:06]

[Edited 2004-05-14 05:13:38]
 
Av8trxx
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Fri May 14, 2004 12:14 pm

Could it be you are thinking of Southwest, not America West? For a short time they actually operated the 727 in addition to the 737.
 
atrude777
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Fri May 14, 2004 12:16 pm

I think AWA and US Airways were the two only airlines to NOT operate the 727, hell even ATA and WN did for a short time.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
ssides
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Fri May 14, 2004 12:19 pm

USAirways operated the 727. It was frequently used on their shuttle operation between DCA, LGA, and BOS, and was also a part of the mainline fleet.
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Cactus739
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Fri May 14, 2004 12:20 pm

US Air/US Airways did operate the 727...


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IMissPiedmont
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Fri May 14, 2004 1:00 pm

America West was not around in the early 1980s, someone is playing with you. HP started operations in March or April of 1984.

They did operate, sort of, L-1011s though.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
cactushp
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Fri May 14, 2004 1:13 pm

I'm absolutely sure that HP never operated 727s but Southwest did for a short time.
Sorry, I was on the landline
 
sprxflySWA
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Fri May 14, 2004 2:38 pm

Actually America West Airlines began service on August 1,1983. And to me, Early 80's is anytime from 1980 to 1985.

As for the L-1011s, don't think that is anywhere near accurate.

Air California/AirCal did not use 727s either,or Aloha, or Hawaiian.
 
m404
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Fri May 14, 2004 4:33 pm

I'm real curious about the L1011 comment. How do you "sort of" fly them. could you be think about the short lived PSA experiment with them?


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or are you thinking about the 747 America West had?
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DeltaMD11
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Fri May 14, 2004 7:45 pm

WN actually operated 727's twice in their history. The first time was in the late 70's ('78 into '79 I believe it was) which were leased from Braniff. The second time was from the early to mid 1980's ('83 to '86) which were leased from PEOPLExpress.

America West never operated the 727, but as mentioned above they did have a small fleet of four 747-200's which were operated to Hawaii, as well as a few charters to Japan and Germany (Stuttgart if my memory serves me correctly). HP had placed orders for 747-400's factory fresh from Boeing, but that deal bit the dust when HP realized at the time it couldn't support the 747 on it's route network (it darn near killed them actually). HP's 747's were ex-KLM machines.


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EAL757
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Fri May 14, 2004 8:22 pm

Geez, that 727 in Southwest colors is about the butt-ugliest thing I've ever seen. What on earth is Southwest thinking when they come up with their color schemes? They've got the ugliest I feel, hands down.

-Jeff
 
citationjet
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Fri May 14, 2004 10:31 pm

America West never operated the 727 or the L-1011.
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7e72004
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Fri May 14, 2004 10:33 pm

I never realized WN operated the 727...why did they do that??
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
elwood64151
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Fri May 14, 2004 10:51 pm

I never realized WN operated the 727...why did they do that??

If memory serves, WN was looking at operating the type as a way of increasing seats on a route without increasing frequencies, and also as a way of getting aircraft quickly added to the fleet. Braniff, facing hard times anyway, was glad to lease them for the extra cash revenue and reduced overall costs to their airline. WN stopped operating them when they realized the type was costing them more money and was able to get additional 737s.

However, I could be completely off-base with this, as it's been awhile since I read about the 727s. I'll take a look at the chapter that deals with the 727s in "Nuts!" (which I'm currently reading), and get back to you.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Fri May 14, 2004 11:00 pm

According to an old Airliner book I had from the late 1980s it showed that America West had 25 A300s on order and 15 767-300s on order.

Whatever happened to that?
 
flyboyaz
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Sat May 15, 2004 12:59 am

The L1011 idea comes from a lease agreement that was being made with ATA for them to do our flight to HNL towards the end. I'm not sure if it ever actually happened, but yes it is true.

I don't know anything about A300's or 767-300's. I know that we had 737-400's on order and new 747-400's, both of which were cancelled.
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
HPCMHPHX
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Sat May 15, 2004 1:18 am

I don't know about anyone else on here, but I would have loved to see the 47 in the new HP colors.
 
DeltaMD11
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Sat May 15, 2004 1:40 am

I think that in today's climate (maybe not 10-15 years ago however) that America West can operate 767-300's profitably. For one, they would be tremendous for the PHX-LAS flights. They would help to allieviate the need for so much frequency on that route (yet the service still needs to be at least hourly as there is so much connecting traffic between the two cities...so capacity on the route would also see an increase). Also, America West has operated it's transcons with the 57's from LAX-JFK/BOS, as well as PHX-BWI as well as others with jam-packed 757's and there have been some thunderings about how the current capacity on those routes are insufficient as demand is really great. The 763's would also have the legs to reach more South American destinations. There are plenty 2nd hand 763's out there to be had, and with the commonality it would take little crew training to cross-feed the 757 pilots on the new type.
Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
 
flyboyaz
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Sat May 15, 2004 1:45 am

I agree completely about the 763....would eliminate all those dual departure we have to LAX, SAN, LAS, etc. Some have 300 seats between the 2 flights and both are full...that's alot of people! I don't think a 767 could take off from SNA, but at least the flights could be upgraded to 757.
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desertjets
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Sat May 15, 2004 1:51 am

The Tristars came from a wet-lease agreement to fly the Honolulu flights for a short period after the 747s were disposed of. So IMissPiedmont is correct when he said America West "sort of" operated the L1011.
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Sat May 15, 2004 8:16 am

763er's would be great for America west to expand since they already operate 757's, but can their gates accomadate 763er's at PHX or LAS or LAX?
Treat others as you expect to be treated!
 
DeltaMD11
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Sat May 15, 2004 9:20 am

Flyboy,
SAN came to mind as one of the cities that would greatly benefit from HP 763ER service. I know in the morning, HP has two birds that depart for PHX one right after the other from neighboring gates (I've done that leg quite a few times and it's always interesting to look out of the window and see the other SAN bird turning to finals at PHX right behind us). I believe that this happens several times a day because the capacity demands are pretty great at these hours and there just aren't enough '57's to go around. Along with HP186 and the 757 that comes in during the later evening hours, I think that an aircraft with larger capacity would definitely benefit them. Take those alleviated A320's and 757's and assign them to other duties to expand upon other routes and/or create new ones.
Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
 
access-air
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Sat May 15, 2004 9:31 am

America West bought 4 used B747-106s from KLM Royal Dutch Airlines, they were formerly PH-BUA, BUB, BUC, and BUD. They were used for service from Phoenix to Honolulu and Las Vegas to Honolulu and from Honolulu to Nogoya Japan for a short time. They also had a small aircraft division of themselves that was flown on local routes around Phoenix and Vegas using Dash 8-100s. and NO they didnt belong to Mesa or West Air.
When HP filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in 1992 because Ed Beavais grew to company way too fast ..the 747s got parked in Mojave and broken up and the Dash 8s I believe were sold to Pennsylvania Airlines ( which merged a couple years later with Suburban to becaome Allegheny Commuter) a USair Express regional.
I rememebr my first visit to Vegas back in 1992 seeing a couple of the HP Dash 8's.

No, HP never flew any 727s ...only 737-100's, 200's 300's (757-200's initially all forrmer Republic/Northwest) and the Ex- KLM 747-106s.

Access-Air
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DeltaMD11
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Sat May 15, 2004 9:58 am

One minor correction~The HP 747's were -206B's, not -100 series birds.
Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
 
av8rphx
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Sat May 15, 2004 11:15 am

If not the 763, a few 753s would help with some load issues. Oh and as a side note... I love how passengers refer to us as "AMERICAN" West. I had a couple of pax at my gate today who were sitting right NEXT to the big AMERICA WEST sign talking about how they were routed on "AMERICAN WEST" from United. Sigh...


[Edited 2004-05-15 04:17:21]
 
EMBQA
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Sat May 15, 2004 11:19 am

WoW....Twenty Eight responses and the answer is still NO..!!!! America West has never flown a Boeing 727..
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
swardu
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Sat May 15, 2004 11:22 am

This is my 2nd post ever as I am new to Airliners.net Forum.

America West never operated with 727's. They began ops with 737-100's, 200's, and 200adv's. Southwest, on the other hand, did operate with 2 B727-200adv's-one leased from Braniff and one leased from Pan Am I believe from 1981-1983 until more 737's became available from Boeing. America West also had about 2 747-200's which they operated to Hawaii for a short length of time.

Hope this clears up your question.
 
gigneil
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Sat May 15, 2004 11:46 am

If not the 763, a few 753s would help with some load issues.

Not many of those to go around, eh?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Are both those SAN departures 757s?

I think the growth of the fleet could alleviate pressure without adding a wildly new type.

They could easily add the 321, free up more 757s, then increase frequency with 757 flying. Not to mention the many, many parked 757s with RB211s that HP could get for a breeze and not even add the 321 as a new subtype.

More frequency is always preferable, if you can afford to pull it off, but in this case it'd certainly be better than acquiring a new widebody type when all you have is narrowbodies.

N
 
cactushp
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Sat May 15, 2004 11:52 am

Really the problem is that there's not enough 757s. If there were more, we wouldn't have to do double departures. And also, HP needs to use 757s to San Jose in Costa Rica. If your going to go to a city, then do it right. And why is HP getting rid of there 757s? It just doesn't make any since.
Sorry, I was on the landline
 
access-air
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Sat May 15, 2004 11:53 am

Opps,

sorry DeltaMD11.....you are correct.....I guess I remember seeing them as KLM 206s at O'Hare a few times...LOL.

Access-Air
Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
gigneil
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Sat May 15, 2004 11:56 am

And why is HP getting rid of there 757s? It just doesn't make any since.

Frankly, the 757s that HP has are old and on the borderline of decrepid. They badly need an overhaul on the inside, and it may just be that HP isn't prepared to do that.

N
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Sat May 15, 2004 12:26 pm

You are, of course, correct about the start up date of HP Sprxflyswa.

As to the question about other US airlines that never operated the 727, as Southern to the list, but I'll be confounded if I can think of another somewhat large carrier that did not.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

And I do not mean todays large regionals such as Mesa or ASA.

Except Ozark though they took delivery of 2.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
access-air
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Sat May 15, 2004 12:32 pm

Actually Ozark NEVER actually took delivery of their two 727-2D4s, N720ZK and N721Zk were promptly sold to Pan Am.....and now curerently fly for FED EX as freighters......They never saw St. Louis at all.....the only place they flew was in and around Seattle...
Trust me, I have several friends with Ozark.....

Cheers, Access-Air
Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Sat May 15, 2004 12:43 pm

Ozark did indeed take official delivery of the 2 727s. True, they were sold to Pan Am minutes later, but they were delivered.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
HPCMHPHX
Posts: 57
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RE: Did American West Operated 727

Sun May 16, 2004 12:33 am

CactusHP:
The 319 we fly to SJO is fine in the fact that with the winds down there most flights are weight restricted. In fact, they tell us not to non-rev there and just buy a ticket. Putting the 757 on that route would mean less pax they could fly. Most of the time the flight is half full (or empty, depending on how you look at it)

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