texdravid
Posts: 1397
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 3:21 pm

Disappointed In DFW!

Fri May 14, 2004 3:33 pm

As a new member, I have been reading all of the posts, and something stood out to me. I grew up in North Texas, near DFW, and liked watching in the late 70's all of the Braniff 747's taking off for many European destinations.

Now, 30 years later, what has DFW become? A land of AA MD-80's and Delta RJ's!! For such an INTERNATIONAL airport, why does DFW have the following?

1). Very few foreign airlines. Look at Intercontinental or Atlanta. They have KLM, AF, etc. DFW has BA and LH, and Korean is only 3X week!! Big deal!! And AF left soon after 9/11, never to return.

2). No 747's. Gosh, even Phoenix and Denver have BA and Lufthansa 747's respectively for goodness sake. And very few widebodies anyway.

I am a big DFW fan, obviously, but I feel that my hometown airport has really fallen behind the other majors when it comes to #1 and 2. Why? Do you think the new international terminal will help?
Thanks,
I remain, Jealous in DFW!
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
NWB757300
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 6:47 am

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Fri May 14, 2004 3:45 pm

correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't AA and DL major international carriers?

Also BA and LH are pretty big too....

[Edited 2004-05-14 08:46:19]
Remember when sex was safe and flying was dangerous?
 
LHcapt2007
Posts: 227
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:55 pm

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Fri May 14, 2004 4:10 pm

EVA Air, China Airlines Cargo, UPS, Atlas Air, Singapore Cargo, Korean Air Cargo all 747s @DFW.

Yes of course LH A343s,other wbs MD-11s(China Eastern C,UPS,EVA), DC-10s(FedEx,World Airways,Omni Air), DC-8s(ATI,UPS,ABEX,BAX), Plenty of 777 action and of course lots of 767s, Sabena A32s back in the day, I'd be pretty happy.

Yes we know what you mean but look at its central location, where a few major foreign carriers already dominate with the int'l market now. Central location makes it prime for a major hub, most stops are within MD80 reach.

I would really make a lot more spotting trips to DFW if pax heavies were flown out of DFW but maybe QF will open the door someday? And so much for Air France's tease.

Yes definitely disappointed, a super80 and RJ invasion, but at least there's a lot of action.

Cheers,
LHcapt2007



TNCM
 
AA737-823
Posts: 4898
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 11:10 am

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Fri May 14, 2004 11:41 pm

Yeah, I like MD-80s a lot... but I agree, it'd be nice to have more variety.
Rumor has it that AirFrance may return, and Qantas was rumored to come in with their new 777-200LRs, which they didn't ever order. But now that the rumor is that they'll order A340-500s, maybe they'll bring their European inefficiencies out here.
Oooh, that was a cheap, CHEAP shot.
 Smile
R
 
jmy007
Posts: 540
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 2:18 am

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sat May 15, 2004 12:02 am

Be Happy that DFW serves many, many, points in the North America, South America, Europe, Asia. Even if it is with AA and the super 80  Smile

Cookies are the Gateway pastry. They lead to Éclairs and Bear Claws.
 
JayDavis
Posts: 1870
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 1:09 pm

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sat May 15, 2004 12:11 am

You've also got to remember that DFW Airport is AA's "Bitch" !!

The DFW Airport Board is NOT going to do anything that "truly" upsets the "Silver Monster" !! You might see Air France and Qantas and possibly some new Asian carriers actually operate passenger service at DFW, but AA has DFW Airport by the balls.............



Jay
 
aa61hvy
Posts: 13021
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 1999 9:21 am

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sat May 15, 2004 12:33 am

A little bitter are we Jay  Big grin
Go big or go home
 
saigonhouston
Posts: 373
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2004 11:48 pm

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sat May 15, 2004 12:37 am

We will have China Airline and PIA pax service next month at Intercontinental IAH. Also, Saudi Arabian cargo has already in Houston weekly service now.

< http://www.houstonairportsystem.org>

Saigonhouston
 
GSPSPOT
Posts: 2192
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:44 am

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sat May 15, 2004 1:01 am

The DFW Airport Board is NOT going to do anything that "truly" upsets the "Silver Monster"...
With the current shaky condition the major carriers are in, I would think that wouldn't necessarily be the case. AA has WAY too much invested in the Dallas/Ft Worth region to be able to threaten anything...
Finally made it to an airline mecca!
 
bartond
Posts: 647
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 6:59 am

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sat May 15, 2004 1:15 am

I totally understand what you mean by being jealous of these other airports for spotting purposes. It's just one of those things - ATL is simply the only really large airport within hundreds and hundreds of miles in the Southeast, so everything runs through it down in that area. That will bring carriers like AF, KL, SAA for connecting pax. DFW is the largest hub of AA but American has two major hubs in ORD and MIA that get all the Oneworld carriers, so no luck there. QF will be our only real hope of getting another Oneworld carrier in here, and I continue to hope they bring WHATEVER kind of plane to DFW. We're just in a tough spot geographically to lure foreign carriers in here. IAH has a huge CO operation but their foreign carriers come for one obvious reason - the black stuff under the ground. They'll continue to get carriers there because of it, too.

Us DFW-lovers talk about this all the time, how we want more foreign exposure here. It may come but it will take quite a bit of time, will take the new int'l. terminal being built to suit international travelers, and some nasty good marketing by the airport/city. I say QF comes one day, if nothing more than to alleviate some of the pressure off of LAX for connecting pax, and we'll get another Asian carrier to start up service. Hopefully Eva or JAL. But an ORD or MIA we'll never be. Sux.
 
ssides
Posts: 3248
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2001 12:57 am

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sat May 15, 2004 1:21 am

As a big DFW fan, I also understand the disappointment. I'd love to see a couple more international carriers (CX, QF), and some 747 pax service, but given the state of the airline industry, the markets just aren't there. IAH has more international service because Houston is a much more international city -- it has Shell, Exxon, and just about every other major oil company you can think of (giving IAH the global reach that these companies require). ATL is simply better situated geographically for international flights -- although I'll take DFW over ATL any day (better facility, better dominant airline).

We DFW fans, while disappointed in the variety, should be happy that we have such an awesome airport. From DFW, you can fly just about anywhere you'd want to go in North American nonstop. You've also got great access to Europe and South America. So what if most of it's on AA. Just listen to the MSY, MKE, and CLE fans on this board -- we have a lot to be thankful for.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
citationjet
Posts: 2258
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 2:26 am

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sat May 15, 2004 1:27 am

30 years ago when Braniff had 747s to Europe, there were not many European carrieris flying non-stop to Europe. Braniff didn't fly to that many European cities.
Today, however, DFW has non-stop service to many European cities, and also non-stop service to South America, which didn't exist with Braniff.
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
WorldAV8R
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 2:25 am

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sat May 15, 2004 1:41 am

Welcome to the new era! What can you say, 'it is not like it used to be'.

I remember, growing up in STL, going to the airport to watch the daily afternoon arrivals of the 747 from HNL and CDG. It was a treat to see the C concourse full with L10-11's and 74s. That was when TWA flew to cities like Copenhagen, Riyadh, Rome. I had thousands of miles on TWA. Those were the days.
Next Trip: STL-ORD-LHR-ATH-JMK
 
Bobs89irocz
Posts: 599
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 4:52 am

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sat May 15, 2004 3:17 am

Texdravid- Believe me, i feel your pain. I grew up in Keller and about 4-5 years ago i would literally spend HOURS at DFW (behind the AE hanger) and watch and wait for the BA 777/747 (at the time it was both) and the LH A343. Just to see those to birds come in and wait hours for where worth it. Now after living in Chicago for 2 years i realize i only have to spend 10 minutes at the airport to see what i saw in a matter of 3-4 hours at DFW. Being a DFW fan, i am jealous of ORD, MIA, JFK, IAH, SFO, LAX, but DFW will never be one of those. It has its own little place in this world and its one with the most runways....Beautiful place.


BTW: LH flys the MD-11 in sometimes, SIA-744, EVA- MD-11/747, Emery-A300, UPS- Everything up to the 747.

DFW gets a good flow of widebodys, just not much from Asia or Europe. If DL would bring back the amount of widebodys it once had then it would be a great place to spot.
 
aa61hvy
Posts: 13021
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 1999 9:21 am

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sat May 15, 2004 3:31 am

Bobby- we do get UPS 747s
Go big or go home
 
jsnww81
Posts: 2297
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 3:29 am

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sat May 15, 2004 3:32 am

I grew up in Dallas as well, and consider DFW my "home" airport. It has gotten a bit stale in the past two or three years (especially since American pulled all of the 727s and F100s out of DFW), but AA still runs a decent amount of 757s and widebodies out of the airport. The ERJs and MD80s can get a little old at times, I'll admit, but at least American hasn't gone the Delta route and replaced everything with regional jets.

When I was a little kid back in the middle and late 1980s, I remember driving past Terminal 2W (this was back when people were intelligent enough to know the difference between east and west, before DFW got so many complaints and changed the terminal names) and seeing the signs for Thai, British Caledonian, Mexicana and Air New Zealand. We sure felt 'international' back then!

For a brief period in the late 1990s and early part of this decade, DFW looked like it was going to join the ranks of Atlanta and Houston. We had Japan Airlines, Korean Air, TACA, Sabena and Air France all inaugurate flights. Most of those are gone, but the two stalwarts - BA and Lufthansa - are soldiering on.

I have gotten a bit spoiled since I moved to Chicago - I love looking at the rows of exotic tails sticking up from Terminal 5. Of course, we've lost quite a few international carriers post 9/11 - Austrian Airlines, Aeroflot, Virgin Atlantic, Singapore Airlines - so the cookie crumbles both ways.

Passenger numbers are slowly rebounding - international traffic is a huge growth area these days - and DFW will see some new airlines. Probably not as many as the IAHs, MIAs, ORDs and JFKs of the world, but we'll do alright for ourselves... just give it some time.
 
texdravid
Posts: 1397
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 3:21 pm

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sat May 15, 2004 5:22 am

Thanks for the info guys!

I think for the foreseeable future, DFW will just be a AA airport. It still sucks, as I sometimes go to ATL and IAH for business, and in the late afternoon you can watch a KLM 744, TWO BA 777's, and AF 777 simultaneously.

Let's hope the DFW board gets their act together and the economy improves...and foreign airlines see the beauty of DFW!
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
aa61hvy
Posts: 13021
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 1999 9:21 am

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sat May 15, 2004 5:27 am

"Probably not as many as the IAHs, MIAs, ORDs and JFKs of the world, but we'll do alright for ourselves"

You can't put IAH in the same catagory as those other airports...
Go big or go home
 
Lt-AWACS
Posts: 2120
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:40 am

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sat May 15, 2004 5:52 am

Really, why not? IAH is the 9th largest Foreign gateway in the US.

As for DFW, don't hold your breath, with people like Laura Miller you could lose what little int'l business you have left... Good luck though.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Yankee Air Pirate
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
jsnww81
Posts: 2297
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 3:29 am

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sat May 15, 2004 6:00 am

Fortunately Laura Miller doesn't have much say in the day-to-day operations at DFW. If she did... look out.

As for lumping IAH in with MIA/ORD/JFK... that wasn't meant to imply it's on a par with the big boys. As international carriers go, however, IAH is definitely a step above the DFW/DEN/CLT/DTW/PHX category. Those airports have service from only three or four foreign carriers, usually one of the Mexican airlines and British Airways and/or Lufthansa.

IAH falls into the middle tier of United States international gateways (in terms of airlines)... a healthy number of foreign airlines, but not the massive United Nations-style roster you'd find at LAX, SFO, JFK, IAD or the like. I'd lump IAH in with SEA, ATL, PHL or BOS - but certainly not with DFW if we're discussing number of international airlines.
 
ASTROJET707
Posts: 289
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 9:39 am

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sat May 15, 2004 6:05 am

While no airport is perfect DFW blows. I have lived in North Dallas for three years and flying AA in and out sucks.

1) I swear the Disney Team put the design on the drawing board. Granted back then, terrorism and bombings were seen in "foreign countries".

2) The tram connecting terminals is a disgrace. Holding my breath on the new terminal wide tram.

3) Flying out on AA sucks. I can't tell you how many times I've checked in for a flight at one terminal to be told I have to drag my ass to another.

4) Flying in late at night and walking all over the terminal to exit to baggage claim.

5) Lack of sufficient gate seating

6) One off-site parking lot closed last year?2002? and the capacity has never been replaced.

I'll take ORD, DEN, ATL any day over DFW

ASTROJET707
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8576
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sat May 15, 2004 6:10 am

Let's hope the DFW board gets their act together and the economy improves...and foreign airlines see the beauty of DFW!

DFW International Airport has probably been one of the greatest economic sucess stories of North Texas. The purpose of the airport is to generate revenue, something it does very very well. Your priviliged to live in a city where the planners had enough common sense and vision to allocate a huge tract of land to ensure DFW growth for years to come. There is still room for how many terminals and runways?

BTW- they built that new international terminal just so you can watch a pair of BA 777s make a parellel landing  Big grin

Fortunately Laura Miller doesn't have much say in the day-to-day operations at DFW. If she did... look out.

Larua Miller's greatest achievement was blocking an all-girls Catholic school (who won 18 state titles in 20 years) from building a soccer stadium on private property. Maybe it was because her daughter played for an opposing team...  Big grin
 
ASTROJET707
Posts: 289
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 9:39 am

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sat May 15, 2004 6:13 am

No doubt it has been a success. In terms of "userfriendliness"...IT BLOWS.

AJ707
 
Lt-AWACS
Posts: 2120
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:40 am

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sat May 15, 2004 6:16 am

JSN I see what you mean now, thanks for the clarification.

Not to sidetrack to much but if Laura miller keeps up, What few businesses are left in Dallas could be in Ft. Worth (growing) and Plano/Irving in 5 years...

Good luck to DFW, and all Texas Airports.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Texas-It's bigger than France
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8576
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sat May 15, 2004 6:20 am

Plano is close to build-out as it is already boxed in by Frisco to the north, Richardson to the south, and The Colony to the west. Plano has done a great job courting EDS, Frito Lay, Dr. Pepper, JC Penny, Beal Bank... but they weren't able to snag Boeing  Sad
 
us330
Posts: 3411
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2000 7:00 am

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sat May 15, 2004 7:49 am

"Larua Miller's greatest achievement was blocking an all-girls Catholic school (who won 18 state titles in 20 years) from building a soccer stadium on private property. Maybe it was because her daughter played for an opposing team"

Several things wrong with the above statement:
1. Laura Miller did not block the Ursuline Academy from building a soccer field. She does not even represent that district. The residents from the district (my aunt and uncle included) complained, in regards to the stadium lights that would have been installed on the stadium, which was basically an enclave into a residential neighborhood. It would have, thus, forced a review and possible alteration of Dallas' strict zoning laws in order to have built that field.
2. Her daughter did not nor will not play for an opposing team. She is 8th grade, and her sister is in 6th. Both attend the Hockaday school, which is an all girls non sectarian school that is not in the same athletic conference as Ursuline. Ursuline is in TAPPS, Hockaday in SPC, and if the two teams ever meet, it is just a grudge match, and does not affect their conference record.
 
cx123
Posts: 683
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 8:51 pm

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sat May 15, 2004 11:01 am

I think DFW can only be used as a Transit hub, rather than a Full International Stop.
I mean it is not a big tourist city and economically in Texas, I think Houston is stronger (IAH)
 
atcboy73
Posts: 1084
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2001 10:09 am

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sat May 15, 2004 12:01 pm

Texdravid

Welcome to the gang.

I live in Waco and my best friend lives at Esters Rd in Irving so I get up there a lot.

I know what you mean by a lack of diversity.

Something else we might need to keep in mind is that the airport is so spread out you cant watch the whole thing.

UPS and other cool things could be coming and going on the west side while you are sitting at Founders plaza, and vis a versa.

Take it from someone living in Waco, you DFW guys are pretty lucky!

Side note: My friend and I were at Founders Plaza the other day (around 5pm) and a UPS MD11, quickly followed by a UPS A300 landed on 17C. Thought that was pretty cool.
 
nycfuturepilot
Posts: 773
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 2:50 am

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sat May 15, 2004 12:55 pm

I have mixed feelings about DFW. Its boring for spotting but as a pax it really depends. Its very easy for arrivals as the carosels are right there but for departures you can have a long walk. to the gate. good food though.

AA has some pretty good variety there at certain times of the day when intl flights come in but between AA and DL there are too many mad dogs.

Anyone ever seen the guy who drives the golf cart in the DL terminal and sings the whole time?
Father, Son, HOYA spirit
 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sat May 15, 2004 1:03 pm

ITs a hell of a lot more than I see at Daytona Beach International.

I see as many Cessna 172s as you see MD-80s, and usually its the same 3-4 just doing touch and goes when there isnt one of the 4 daily Delta MD-80s taking off, or the 2 daily Cont Express ERJs or Delta Express CRJs

Be happy you got an airport where you actually see something.
 
dia77
Posts: 658
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2000 3:49 am

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sat May 15, 2004 5:39 pm

I don't want to offend anyone from Dallas, but DFW is such a lousy airport (my opinion of course). I avoid it at all costs, I live in Chicago so I don't have to change planes in DFW much. In the past I've done my share of layovers in DFW. I would take DEN, PHX, IAH, DTW or just about any other airport over DFW. With Houston close by, Dallas should be happy with what they've got. Just my two cents.
 
texdravid
Posts: 1397
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 3:21 pm

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sat May 15, 2004 5:51 pm

Dia77,

No offense taken over your dislike of DFW. I respectfully disagree. ORD is too crowded and there is too much walking involved.

DFW is centrally located, the DFW metroplex has over 3.5 million people, and the airport is well laid out. Even at busy times, you can pick someone up and not bust through a hugh traffic jam.

That's why it is hard to take when a huge, well-layed out airport like DFW doesn't live up to its INTERNATIONAL name.
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sat May 15, 2004 6:21 pm

airport like DFW doesn't live up to its INTERNATIONAL name.


Some of you seem to have completely lost touch with reality....

...one of the world's busiest airports, with nonstop service to a plethora of major gateways on four continents-- is suddenly somehow failing to be 'international'?



Perhaps you might want to stop in and see what flies out of the Nashville International, Tucson International, and Savannah Internationals of the country...  Yeah sure
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Guest

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sat May 15, 2004 9:21 pm

I'm sorry, but I find this thread ridiculous. Just because there isn't a huge variety of pretty airplanes for the spotters to go photograph doesn't condemn an entire airport. DFW's level of airline service is amazing. Perhaps you'd rather DFW have JFK's airline service? In that event, the people of Dallas would have quite a hard time getting most places they want to go on a regular basis.
 
aa61hvy
Posts: 13021
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 1999 9:21 am

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sat May 15, 2004 11:35 pm

"Nashville International, Tucson International, and Savannah Internationals of the country"

Add Dayton International, 1 flight a day to YYZ....
Go big or go home
 
blink182
Posts: 5273
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 1999 3:09 am

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sat May 15, 2004 11:43 pm

In terms of variety of airlines, I agree. If AA could only let some of their partners operate the codeshares(ie-LX from ZRH, LA from SCL, JAL from AA), Japan">NRT and so on).

But for reality sakes, DFW has services to those three cities I named above, plus EZE, AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA, SAP and many others. Yes, they are all operated by AA metal(DL bring back the AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA flight!), but I could think of other, more important things the airport should worry about. That includes a remodeling of the Terminals A,B,C, and E. I figure since D will not be at full capacity once it is opened, it wouldn't be too hard to temporarily relocate flights there in order to remodel the existing terminals(1 at a time or something similar), to at least make them look a little on par with D.

blink
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
bartond
Posts: 647
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 6:59 am

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sun May 16, 2004 4:46 am

DFW metroplex = 5.6 million people, FYI
 
bartond
Posts: 647
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 6:59 am

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sun May 16, 2004 4:55 am

Okay DFW is "relatively" boring compared to some of the US (and world's) biggest international gateways. Concky's right...we're in a lot better shape than alot of other "international" airports.

However, I was just on AA.com and noticed that they've put a 772 on the 9am DFW-JFK run. Anyone know as to why they did this? Did they have an extra 772 laying around or is this just a temporary equipment switch?
 
aa777jr
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:03 pm

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sun May 16, 2004 4:59 am

I hate DFW!!! It's rather sad too, I always fly AA and get stuck in DFW going to Europe or Japan. Oh well...cheers!
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
Scott4AA
Posts: 319
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2002 11:36 am

RE: Disappointed In DFW!

Sun May 16, 2004 7:46 am

Aa777jr,
I checked the timetable and as of the last timetable update (Mar 8th I believe), that 777 flight to JFK (1086) operates on only Jun 10, 2004. Wouldn't it be nice if they offered it everyday? -- Scott
American Airlines - We Know Why You Fly

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