keesje
Posts: 8747
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Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Fri May 14, 2004 7:34 pm

VIRGIN is deferring delivery of its first A380 by 18 months to early 2008 to ensure new cabin features are ready and airport facilities (citing LAX) will be ready..

Will this influence other deliveries?
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
jwenting
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Fri May 14, 2004 7:43 pm

Might mean someone else gets theirs earlier.
Might also signal other airlines to do the same, and might cause a few potential customers to have second thoughts.
I wish I were flying
 
User avatar
scbriml
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Fri May 14, 2004 8:12 pm

KEESJE, where did you get this information? I can't find anything.

What cabin features are Virgin installing that won't be ready for nearly 4 years? I'm sure Airbus is willing to help VS, especially as they're currently negotiating a potential sale  Smile

Other airlines could take their planes earlier (EK springs to mind), or, of course, Airbus now has some additional early delivery slots to offer to new potential customers - Chinese carriers in time for the Olympics? Didn't they recently hint that they were in negotiations with four airlines?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
teahan
Posts: 4990
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Fri May 14, 2004 9:29 pm

It is apparently on the Virgin intranet. Furthermore, it was posted in today's Edition of Orders News so I presume it is true.

Not really sure I believe the story about LAX (since it was never amongst Virgin's first A380 route routes which were mentioned in that Flight International feature last May).

J.
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
TFJamie
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Fri May 14, 2004 10:34 pm

Ramerinianair:

Yes! Let's put the manufacturer's future at stake for the sake of it being a novelty for you to fly one of their planes.

All the people who'll lose their jobs at airbus will at least be able to enjoy flying on the 380, because at least it's not that common!

Sorry for the sarcasm, but if you want to see the plane flying at all, hoping for few orders and airlines deferring their orders is not the way. That would destroy the program and maybe the company in whole.
 
keesje
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Fri May 14, 2004 10:37 pm

Ramerinianair, original & honest vision  Big thumbs up
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Fri May 14, 2004 10:38 pm

There isn't anything wrong with the aircraft. In all likelyhood, this isn't LAX fault either, but as someone already said, some new type of inflight entertainment... Im excited to see what
 
AA737-823
Posts: 4898
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 11:10 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Fri May 14, 2004 11:37 pm

Actually, my DFW brother, there ARE some things wrong with the aircraft. Nothing serious- it's just several tons overweight. Which means that some of the planned airport preparations were not enough. That's the biggest problem I see. I wondered about this when Airbus leaked that the plane was fat- I suspected it might affect the airports.

Honestly, how can an airline expect to move that large a mass of people anywhere? In a day when only two US carriers can fly 747s (and United has a LOT of them parked!) and airlines around the world are shifting toward frequencies rather than capacities, why on earth would we expect this to be a successful venture?

Oh, don't worry, TFJamie, jobs won't be lost. Remember- Airbus's loans do NOT have to be repaid if the plane is a sales flop. Where did I get that info? I am trying to remember- I read it yesterday or the day before, I think on a Yahoo article linked from this site. Yeah, it was an interview with Stonecipher, and I think it was on Yahoo.

 
starrion
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Fri May 14, 2004 11:43 pm

Looks like some of my fellow Boeing fans are jumping the gun. I think that in spite of the obstacles the A380 will happen. There are too many hub pairs that will benefit even if it's not to the US airports. It will be some time before the US major airports can get renovations underway to support this bird, but it will come about eventually.
Knowledge Replaces Fear
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Fri May 14, 2004 11:46 pm

Just because only 2 US carriers operate 744's, doesn't imply that large aircraft are not required by other airlines - slot constraints and the need to schedule multiple flights close together to take advantage of night time departures (e.g. South Africa-Europe) or early morning arrivals (eg. Asia-Europe) etc mean that the A380 will be exactly right for carriers currently operating multiple widebody departures very close together into slot constrained airports.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
airbazar
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Fri May 14, 2004 11:52 pm

Dude, you gotta get your facts straight. The World doesn't end at the Canadian border. Airlines around the World are looking for both frequency and capacity. In fact in some parts (Asia), more capacity than frequency. They fly 600 seat 747's in Japan for cryin' that loud. The US majors are not a good representation of current World aviation. Far from it.
I see 777's and A346 being bought like hot cakes. The A380 will sell far more than expected. For any airline that wants to compete as a World player it will be inconceivable not to operate the A380. There's only so much frequency you can have on medium/long-haul flights. Ever wonder why there are no long haul LCC's?
 
Andreas
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Fri May 14, 2004 11:59 pm

airlines around the world are shifting toward frequencies rather than capacities,

Ah yes, how insightful. And where did get this wisdom? Looking at the Boeing marketing brochures thinking "hey these guys are always right"?

Well I have bad news for you: There are many airports worldwide working at full capacity in terms of slots that just can't cope with higher frequencies anymore... as a result, and I guess you will agree with me, they have to push up capacity on certain services.

And for all those who wish A380 to go belly-up just for pseudo-patriotic reasons...have your heads checked, you have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about.
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
yul332LX
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 12:08 am

In a day when only two US carriers can fly 747s... ...why on earth would we expect this to be a successful venture

What's the point? Who cares about US when the plane was never designed for US Airlines? You got to open your mind here… The success or failure of the A380 will have nothing to do with US airlines.
E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
 
7e72004
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 12:12 am

I would say that if Airbus wants to operate the A380 in the US, then they should just pay for the airport modifications  Smile I sure hope that IND will not accomodate that giant  Big thumbs up
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
planemannyc
Posts: 939
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2003 12:54 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 12:15 am

Yet another discussion that mutates to A vs. B  Big grin

I want Canadair to make this extremely long CRJ that can accommodate 500 passengers (still 2x2 seating), have Boeing Spin off Douglas (not McDonnell, just Douglas) and they can come up with the MD-12 (six engined aircraft) and Embraer to come up with the EMB-500 (same concept as the Canadair) and then we can have a A vs. B vs. C vs. D vs. E discussion Big grin

Cheers,

Wasim / Planemannyc
 
N6376M
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:54 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 12:27 am

Don't you guys realize that when either Airbus or Boeing do something well it forces the other one to raise the bar. While no plane will ever meet everyone's needs, there's a long history of building upon the other's work that allows the aviation industry to remain on the leading edge of technological advancement.

I hope that AB makes a heck of a good plane and that Boeing learn from it. The same ways that I'm sure that the new technology incorporated into the 7e7 will push AB to improve.

This school ground my daddy's better than yours bullshit is just childish.
 
BCALdavid
Posts: 72
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 1:31 am

"I would say that if Airbus wants to operate the A380 in the US, then they should just pay for the airport modifications"

7E72004, what a sensible idea! While you're at it, let me know how much Boeing paid the European airports to prepare for the 747.

Your next carefully thought out statement...

"I sure hope that IND will not accommodate that giant"

I don't think they'll ever need to!!!

Stop bashing things just because they aren't American.
 
PHXinterrupted
Posts: 461
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 1:44 am

"What's the point? Who cares about US when the plane was never designed for US Airlines? You got to open your mind here… The success or failure of the A380 will have nothing to do with US airlines."

Who cares about the US? Uh, how about all the airlines buying the 380? Where the hell do you think they are going to fly them? Sure, US airlines may not buy the 380, but that's hardly the point. Have you forgotten where the largest airline market in the world is? I know, you're angry because you have to live in the shadow of the the largest economy in the world. It's okay, we don't regard Canada as a threat.
Keepin' it real.
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 1:51 am

>>>and then we can have a A vs. B vs. C vs. D vs. E discussion

Love it! (Too bad we couldn't have found a way to get Fokker into it as well...)  Big grin
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
startknob
Posts: 148
Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 11:43 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 1:58 am

PHXinterrupted,

Who cares about the US? Uh, how about all the airlines buying the 380? Where the hell do you think they are going to fly them?
They will create slots by moving more people between Europe, Asia, India, Australia, Africa and the Mid-East. They will retire a whola lot of 747s and 747Fs. From the US LAX, SFO, EWR, JFK is all they need - and will get sure as hell - rather sonner than later IMHO.

Sure, US airlines may not buy the 380, but that's hardly the point.
No US airline to my knowledge can afford a 380 - too many Ch. 11 and Ch. 7 underway.

Have you forgotten where the largest airline market in the world is?
No, I haven't. Currently this is China and the Far East region.

I know, you're angry because you have to live in the shadow of the the largest economy in the world. It's okay, we don't regard Canada as a threat.
According to this statement i'm really happy for my various Canadian friends that the US seemingly is not believing to find Weapons of mass destruction in Canada in order to invade.

Fly 380, fly.  Wink/being sarcastic



When playing cat and mice it's imperative to know, who's the cat.
 
planemannyc
Posts: 939
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2003 12:54 am

RE: How To Scare Your Passengers

Sat May 15, 2004 2:03 am

OPNLguy,

Sure we can! Let's use the a.net first class membership money to buy the defunct Fokker and revive the F100 line to F500 (again keep the 2x3 seating, jut 100 rows!) and have the

A vs. B vs. C vs. D vs. E vs. F arguments!

Best,

Wasim / Planemannyc
 
snnams
Posts: 279
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2004 9:51 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 2:32 am

Are we incapable of having any kind of informed debate on this forum anymore without it degenerating into a ridiculous and childish a.v.b load of crap????

To those of you who have not yet indulged in this nonsense and have actually had something worthwhile to say, please continue: hopefully we can drive the bigots into silence!

To address one particlular remark about only 2 US airlines having even 747's: the world does not stop and end at the U.S.... if you have witnessed the airport congestion here in Europe, you would see why the A380 needs to, and will happen!!

Just because some other countries decide to challenge Boeing's previous near monopoly does not mean the extinction of Boeing and does not mean the extinction of the U.S aircraft industry. The US is supposed to be the home of capitalism, yet SOME seem to be of the opinion that this competition is wrong and some kind of crime against the U.S. If you are capitalists, can some of you kindly start acting like it!!! Equally, slightly less arrogance from Certain European posters would be very nice for a change too. (although, thankfully I have witnessed none of this so far on this thread.. but i'm waiting for it)


And just to set the record straight, I regularly fly Boeing and Airbus and like them both.

Competition = good; bigotry from EITHER side of the Atlantic = bad.
 
RT514
Posts: 399
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 2:34 am

PHXinterrupted,

Your last post (#18) reeks of naivete but should at least be commended on its comedic value. The US being the "largest airline market in the world" is subjective and vague at best. In the interest of keeping my post relevant, however, I shall get to the point at hand.

Some things that I think are noteworthy here...
Although I can believe it, there is still no source cited to indicate that VS is deferring delivery. Airlines defer delivery, they cancel, modify and change orders and delivery schedules all the time. I think that much more speculation is being fuelled here because it's a new aircraft we're talking about in this case.

I agree with Jwenting, probably the biggest effect that this will have is that other A380 customers may get their aircraft earlier than expected.



 
GDB
Posts: 12653
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 2:39 am

I can remember reading articles about the then A3XX, what the A380 is called now, way back in 1999/2000, Airbus even then did not expect many sales in the US, maybe UA in time, but no expectation of major sales in North America.
Still launched the project though.

Pacific Rim, Mid East (up and coming airlines there emerging now), Europe, these were seen as the main areas for sales, in that order, the US was way down the list.
After all, what prospects for future 747 sales in the US?
Pretty poor I'd say.

Now I could be tempted to stray from topic here, and respond to some of the lame xenophobia on this thread, by pointing out that most nations (especially 1st world ones) have rather more than about 25% of their citizens with passports.

The US market is the biggest, but it's mostly domestic, not what the A380 was designed for, BTW, 30 years ago Boeing did not build the 747SR just for Japan, they had hopes for domestic US sales too, now we know how long US domestic routes supported 747s, all gone by the mid 70's I think, so no help with the SR from there.

Airbus will lose little sleep over lack of US A380 sales.
 
yul332LX
Posts: 798
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2004 5:15 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 2:41 am

Have you forgotten where the largest airline market in the world is?

The largest market in the world in the next 25 years: Asia! And that is exactly what the A380 is for; not for US airlines! Will they fly their A380 into US? You bet but that has nothing to do with US airlines! Get the idea now? The A380 does not need US airlines to be successful...

I know, you're angry because you have to live in the shadow of the the largest economy in the world. It's okay, we don't regard Canada as a threat.

Why should I be angry? I am not the one who lives in a country where chimpanzees can be elected!  Big grin
E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
 
UA744KSFO
Posts: 411
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 2:56 am

As someone from the US, I feel the need to apologize for some of the arrogant, stupid, ignorant, and childish comments made by some of my fellow Americans. It's no wonder why America is the only "civilized" country where so many people have no access to healthcare and the murder rate is so high. Again, sorry for those who have been put down.

And to those Americans spouting your false-patriotism to put others down, I'd seriously watch out if I were you. Superpowers, #1 economies, and such can't last forever, so make sure you don't piss EVERYONE off, especially our CLOSEST allies!

As to deferring the delivery of the A380, I'm not worried about it. The global population and lack of energy sources will necessitate the use of airliners like this in the future. For the long term, this will be one of Airbus' best ideas.
 
elcapi1980
Posts: 204
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:31 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 2:57 am

until now..how many order the A380 has , and by whom....
....
any info....thanks
I love you barranquilla!!!!!
 
RT514
Posts: 399
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 2:11 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 3:00 am

I certainly hope that Airtran737's remarks aren't representative of the quality level of other's posts on this site. It was irrelevant, it ignores the topic of the thread and personally, I rather feel sorry for anyone who felt the need to get intoxicated in Windsor, of all places! On the bright side, I know first hand that the content is not representative of most Americans.

I can't see that Airbus envisioned a great number of sales to US airlines at any point of its development. In the same way, the topic of the US figures little in the topic of this thread. The point is that there is a rumor that VS has deferred delivery of its 380's. Assuming this is true, I would guess that there are issues far closer to home that would be driving Virgin's decision.
 
GDB
Posts: 12653
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 3:05 am

I think it's clear that most US users here (the biggest group) are switched on, sensible and beyond lame xenophobia, however, as always, the ones shouting (even in cyberspace) are the ones that get noticed.
But you know the saying, 'empty vessels make the loudest noise.'

Back to topic, A380 is often seen as a big leap, it is for Airbus, but compare the capacities of the 747-100 with the 707/DC-8s, the then mainstay of long haul flying when 747 was introduced.
A much smaller jump from 747 capacity to A380.

 
Guest

RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 3:10 am

The 380 has one purpose. Make the most out of routes where increased frequency is not an option. It's a very appropriate aircraft for airlines which are government owned, or for airlines with very flew slots but high demand. These birds are not going to be flying out the doors. Airbus will be lucky to deliver half of the number of 747's delivered world wide, which stands at 1,344 copies. There are too many dynamics involved to make it a fast and furious seller. It's not a bust, but it won't be a barn burner either.
 
iowa744fan
Posts: 906
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 1:31 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 3:10 am

I just love how this has gone from just a comment on VS deferring their 380s to a full - scale A vs. B, US vs. the world thing! How many posts ever mentioned VS?

That is all. I like flying 744s, but I also want to see and fly a 380, so I am not about to get involved in the whole debate!  Smile
 
sandiaman
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 1:53 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 3:13 am

Here is an excerpt from an article written by R. Aboulafia on the subject of the A380 market (Source AIAA). According to the data, fragmentation does seem to be occurring on transoceanic routes.

quote...

Airlines are flying thinner, more frequent routes between a wide variety of city pairs. The best statistical illustration of this is the declining average size on most international routes. Between 1990 and 2001, transatlantic routes exhibited the greatest decline, from an average of 279 seats to 232 seats per flight. Latin American flight size shrank from 194 seats to 168 seats.

The most intriguing fragmentation took place in the Pacific. There, routes shrank from 319 to 304 seats. Yet the Pacific market has only recently seen the introduction of long-range equipment that can come close to the 747’s range with a smaller seat capacity. The Japanese majors, United Airlines, and other carriers have recently had considerable success by replacing 747s with smaller planes, such as the 777 and A340. This implies that fragmentation in the Pacific has only just begun, and could start to emulate the Atlantic market, especially as the new very long-range A340-500 and 777-200LR come on line.

...endquote

The entire article can be found at the following link:

http://www.aiaa.org/aerospace/Article.cfm?issuetocid=398

These days, the main rationale for the A380 seems to be slot constrained airports (at least on the A.net boards). Is it possible that lower unit costs are no longer a dominant rationale for the use of superjumbos? For a long time, the 747-400 offered the lowest seat-mile costs. Now smaller aircraft, perhaps even the 7E7, offer comparable seat-mile costs. In the 70s and 80s, the 747 was able to distinguish itself both in terms of range and seat-mile cost. Now, in 2004, I'm not sure the A380 can do the same. The only differentiator seems to be its ability to serve slot constrained airports.

That said, the world's population continues to grow, and all routes, fragmented or not, will thicken and require the use of larger aircraft.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 3:15 am

Which means that some of the planned airport preparations were not enough.

Several tons, even 10 more, would not increase the pavement loading of the aircraft to above the 773.

I, too, love the maturity of this forum.

N
 
mtkinf
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 12:22 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 3:15 am

Unfortunately, America is quite obsessed with the "bigger is better" mindset, leading to the obvious intimidation that some of my fellow countrymen are experiencing in this thread and others regarding the A380.

I think that we all have the urge to root for the home team or, in this case, the domestic Aircraft Manufacturer, but for people to actually want the A380 to fail just out of spite is really going too far.

Anyway, if Virgin is delaying delivery, so be it. Hopefully for Airbus, it will not be a trend.

Yes, we have a chimpanzee leading the nation. Please don't rub it in.  Smile
 
Guest

RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 3:22 am

Unfortunately, America is quite obsessed with the "bigger is better" mindset, leading to the obvious intimidation that some of my fellow countrymen are experiencing in this thread and others regarding the A380.

I think that we all have the urge to root for the home team or, in this case, the domestic Aircraft Manufacturer, but for people to actually want the A380 to fail just out of spite is really going too far.

Anyway, if Virgin is delaying delivery, so be it. Hopefully for Airbus, it will not be a trend.

Yes, we have a chimpanzee leading the nation. Please don't rub it in.


What are you talking about? If the American mentality was "bigger is better" the 7E7 would seat 800 pax. Talk about chimps? You make no sense what-so-ever. Kinda like JK.
 
MD80Nut
Posts: 972
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 6:43 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 3:42 am

What people have to understand is that there is a genuine need for an aircraft of the A380's size in many markets. Airlines in Asia have a need for large aircraft, look at how many A330, A340s, 747s and 777s have been sold there. There are airports in Europe, Asia and North America which can't accommodate many, if any, additional flights, the only way to keep up with demand is bigger aircraft. The A380 may have issues, but so do most aircraft when they are first introduced.

I believe the A380 will get additional orders once it proves itself in service. I would not be surprised if one or more US passenger airlines order it eventually.

>>Yes, we have a chimpanzee leading the nation<<

Better than having timid sheep mis-leading it!  Big thumbs up

cheers, Ralph
Fly Douglas Jets DC-8 / DC-9 / DC-10 / MD80 / MD11 / MD90 / 717
 
SonicKidatBWI
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 4:03 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 3:50 am

My comments aren't about VS deferring deliveries ... rather they are to express my profound disgust for some of these American's on here. I am American and I definitely do not feel that America is the power house of the world. Some American's swear that any country other than is inferior ... If your politics don't reflect the views and practices of the U.S., then its wrong ... If you buy a foreign vehicle instead of the U.S. its wrong ... If you live in a country other than, all of your views and opinions are wrong because you are our subordinates and why should you know anything. Little do most Americans seem to remember, they are direct decendant of the English/British. They are Britians that just relocated. Americans are not the smartest in the world. Our nation of 386 million is being led by a dumbass who has the lowest I.Q. of any president to ever serve as.

America must not be doing something right. Everyday when I come to A.net I'm seeing another posting of another U.S. major who is going bankrupt. You don't see British Airways or Air France or Singapore Airlines or QANTAS or Emirates or Virgin Atlantic facing Ch. 11. So who is looking stupid???

I am not one to knock a product just because it isn't American built. I am not that crazy over the A380, I do think it is a little over-ambitious but I am happy for Airbus. At least they are doing something right instead of sitting around doing nothing like some other American aircraft manufacturers that I dare not name. Airbus currently offers four modern, successful lines of aircraft (A300 - A318/A319/A320/A321 - A330/A340 - A380). Boeing went from having once five strong lines of products offered at one time (727 - 737 - 747 - 757 - 767) to two (737 & 777). So let's get real. Like I said in a previous post, if the Airbus flops it flops, and if it's a success, more power to Airbus.


[Edited 2004-05-14 21:00:47]

[Edited 2004-05-14 21:01:38]
 
MidnightMike
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:07 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 3:59 am


Amazing, this is simply amazing, everybody is reading too much into the news story, Virgin Atlantic simply deferred delivery of an aircraft, it happens all the time in the airline industry.

Airbus will simply fill the slot with another customer, not like the airplane is going to sit on the ramp.

NO URLS in signature
 
Guest

RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 4:04 am

First of all. Pipe it.


Second:

America must not be doing something right. Everyday when I come to A.net I'm seeing another posting of another U.S. major who is going bankrupt. You don't see British Airways or Air France or Singapore Airlines or QANTAS or Emirates or Virgin Atlantic facing Ch. 11. So who is looking stupid???

Our entire domestic system shut down, new policies affecting the traveling public were implented coupled with a recession. What else would you expect to happen? It's amazing that three years later we are hearing of Bankrupsty. It probably should have happened long ago. Furthermore, other countries do not have a tenth of the competition levels as found in the US. Name one other country in the world with 7 Major carriers, 13 national carrriers and a host of regional affiliates. You can't.
 
keesje
Posts: 8747
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 4:21 am

About US carriers, could Northwest be tempted to operate A380 Combis ? (main deck cargo, upper deck passengers on LAX/SEA/MSP/DTW to Narita flights ?


"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
a380900
Posts: 799
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 11:26 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 4:23 am

I can't find anything backing this stuff. LAX or in flight entertainment stuff seem pretty weak explanations.

Could anyone confirm this stuff with some credible link?
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 4:26 am

About US carriers, could Northwest be tempted to operate A380 Combis ?

They could be tempted all they'd like.... but the FAA has made it more than clear that they're not keen on certifying any new combis.

Hence Boeing dropping plans for both 772LRM and 744ERMs.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
col
Posts: 1692
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 4:36 am

I think Richard is probably making sure his flagship is 100% ready. It is good for him and Airbus, better customer reaction. Problem is if BA pick up his delivery slots!!!

For reference USA Population 280+m. I believe the 3rd largest at present, although we will get overtaken by Indonesia.

For all my fellow Statesiders with the really stupid comments, please think before using the keyboard.
 
Guest

RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 4:42 am

Uh...Uh...Uh... Okay kid.

You must be one of those stupid-ass Americans that I was referring too because had you not been, you wouldn't have responded to my posting.

Er... Yeah. Your right.

Your last point that you tried to make (and failed at it by the way) shows how retarded and ignorant some Americans can be. You say name a country with 7 majors and 12 national and whatever else???

Airlines - Competition. Or did you miss that part?

You name another country with 50 independent municipalities put together to form the 3rd largest country in the world ... you show me another country with 386 million people who is not considered third world.

Yeah, you did miss the competition thing.

In a country where air travel used to be revered because of the unprecedented standard of luxury which was once associated with ... how elegant is the U.S. airline industry when there are about no less than 10 foreign airlines that I would want to travel on before I got on an American Airlines or United flight.

Your choice.

Get real fool. Like I said, stop knocking the European products. They must be doing something right or else their sales wouldn't be eclipsing Boeings. Grow up you ignorant fool.

Yaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
 
Guest

RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 4:44 am

They could be tempted all they'd like.... but the FAA has made it more than clear that they're not keen on certifying any new combis.

Hence Boeing dropping plans for both 772LRM and 744ERMs.


I could have sworn that was only combis with cargo and pax on the same deck. Obviously the A380 would not have this problem. Lets face it, every plane a combi to a certain extent.
 
laddb
Posts: 218
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 3:24 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 4:53 am

Like UA744KSFO and others, I'd like to apologize for some of the comments made by fellow Americans, not only on this thread, but all over the board.

I'm shocked at the immature and uneducated retorts that come out. Please do not judge our whole country based on these idiots. Realize that many of these people are born closed minded.

If you guys keep this up, we Americans are going to have to start wearing shirts with a mapleleaf on the front when we travel abroad.

I grew up loving anything and everything Boeing, McDonnell Douglas and Lockheed produced. But you'd have to be ignorant not to realize that Airbus products are just as good. I'm looking forward to seeing the 380 in the air.

 
amhilde
Posts: 628
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2003 5:01 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 4:56 am


And its not just large population growth in Asia either, but a likely expansion of wages and living standards, not to mention middle classes, that will fuel the desire and need to airline travel. These are markets that perhaps you can say are "Second Tier" which is where those in Europe and the US were at 20 years ago- hub and spoke may work for them at this time due to lack of infrastructure/demand/land space for out of the way/secondary airports. US and Europeans internal markets, however, may do better with an economic model based along more direct flights and away from hub and spoke, as we are coming to see. So it becomes an issue of numbers- Airbus and Boeing could potentially BOTH be right and have successful aircraft- Airbus for larger markets with hubs and Boeing in "First Tier" markets that will come to rely more and more on point to point. The true question is if the demand forecasted in the span of time being looked at is sufficient to ensure that costs are covered and the aircraft turns a profit in the short run. Boeing may be exposed to more risk, though, since point to point is not yet an industry standard and will take a few years to sort out the industry to a state where its more possible and indeed a reality.

Hows that for fence sitting? :P And as a VS fan i think its an ok thing RB is delaying delivery- that niche airline survived post 9/11 because of the ability to take drastic measures quickly to eliminate current costs in an attempt to keep the airline afloat for the long run. If deferring the 380 a few months means VS can provide a premium product for the future, then its a wise business decision.
Hang on tightly, Let go lightly
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 4:56 am

we Americans are going to have to start wearing shirts with a mapleleaf on the front when we travel abroad.

Screw that ...and the place where they represent  Big grin
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
laddb
Posts: 218
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 3:24 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 5:22 am

ConcordeBoy,

Thanks for making my point.
Or was that a friendly taunt at our neighbors?

[Edited 2004-05-14 22:24:21]
 
RIX
Posts: 1589
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2000 4:46 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380

Sat May 15, 2004 5:36 am

"As someone from the US, I feel the need to apologize, ... Like UA744KSFO and others, I'd like to apologize for some of the comments made by fellow Americans" - don't get pathetic, guys. Just look above - there was no less nonsense from other sides of whatever borders... However, thank you for being mature and sincere. Way more than "I think it's clear that most US users here (the biggest group) are switched on, sensible and beyond lame xenophobia, however, as always, ... " - how about to start with yourself? Not in this forum, I see... OK, here are some examples from ice-hockey one - plenty of rubbish there too, but, how about these:

[from Canada]: "I know many of my fellow countrymen have been (currently and in the past) extremely self-ritcheous and cocky and I would like to say that rude and out of place behaviour is not echoed by true Canadian hockey fans. We wish our neighbours all the best (unless playing against Canada of course  Big grin) and hope that in future better sportsmanship and brotherhood will be apparent from our side."

[from Switzerland, after stunning US win against Czech "dream team"]: "i've hardly seen a team playing with so much passion and such big hearts. at the end of the game i ended up standing in front of the tv shouting USA..USA!"

[before Sweden-USA semi-final] "With love from Sweden.
Hi USA.
Tomorrow is the Day. I know you are prepared, I just wanted to send my regards and pay my respect. It is going to be a hell of a game, and what ever the outcome might be, the best team will win."

Thank you, Canada. Thank you, Europe. We love you too.

But don't ever mention it on a.net forum.

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