Topic Author
Posts: 7240
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

DL/KL/AF/NW/CO Question...

Sat May 15, 2004 8:20 am

Hi everybody,

Now that KLM will become part of Air France, will we see more flights operated by Delta Airlines and Continental Airlines from Amsterdam? Delta Airlines is a part-founder of the SkyTeam Alliance and Continental Airlines has a co-operation with KLM as well.

How is the co-operation between Northwest, Continental Airlines and Delta Airlines? They had plans to increase their co-operation, right? Has this co-operation been approved by the regulatory authorities in the U.S. (DoT?). I would think that combined with the SkyTeam Alliance, these airlines will form a real powerhouse, when looking at the other alliances. The other alliances only have AA (OneWorld) and UA/US (Star) to compete against DL/NW & CO in the SkyTeam Alliance on the U.S. (domestic) market.

What are your thaughts on this and what consequences does the KL/AF merger/take-over have on the operations of DL/NW & CO in Amsterdam? And please no KL/AF bashing. Let's stay on-topic here, please. Thanks.

Regards A388
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: DL/KL/AF/NW/CO Question...

Sat May 15, 2004 9:11 am

Delta just added CVG-AMS which gives CO/DL/NW nonstop service to AMS from every international hub they operate exc. CLE which doesn't have year round int'l service. KL right now rounds out the rest of service between AMS and non-hub cities and of course duplicates service to other Skyteam/future Skyteam hubs. Yes, Skyteam has a huge advantage in the US.

Two predictions:
Skyteam carriers could well someday fly some of the beyond AMS flights operated by KL as AF "rationalizes" the combined AF/KL network. The Dutch gov't will still want as much int'l service as possible and the Skyteam carriers certainly will have an advantage if AF decides they don't want to serve some of the markets KL presently serves.

Also, I consider it highly unlikely that CO, DL, and NW will all still be here in 5, maybe even 3 years. There will be consolidation in the industry and two or more of the three US Skyteam carriers could well fit nicely together. Remember, alliances do not generally reduce excess capacity (midwest hubs will still include CLE, CVG, DTW with DFW, IAH, and MEM all present in the south central US); laws governing alliances do not allow full synergies to occur between carriers so duplicate hubs are still needed. Also, each carrier still has duplicated overhead costs (headquarters etc) so there are considerable benefits from mergers. Surplus assets could be redeployed to places where the combined carriers are still weak such as intra-US west or US-Asia besides NRT. While not getting into the specifics of how it will play out, mergers on the US side of Skyteam are as likely to happen as they did on the Atlantic side. The number of US hubs and Skyteam carriers will affect the number of US-AMS flights.

[Edited 2004-05-15 02:17:35]

[Edited 2004-05-15 02:18:18]

[Edited 2004-05-15 02:20:11]
Posts: 1025
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 1999 3:47 am

RE: DL/KL/AF/NW/CO Question...

Sat May 15, 2004 11:16 am

I would have to agree with WorldTraveler that there could well be some mergers within the US Skyteam members. Really, all three could come together and create a massive airline. They could close hubs at CLE, MEM, and DFW. They could move most of their international operations at NYC to EWR, where the CO hub is. They could move the excess planes from closing those hubs out to the west and create a major international/domestic operation at LAX, possibly even taking over terminal 6 completely. By closing those hubs, they could probably get approval for the merger. Closing DFW would give the so-called LCC's a great gate opportunity at DFW. Reducing flights at JFK could give them some additional slots there.

Whether that happens or not, i would expect the combined Skyteam airlines to continue to build services through their hubs, connecting the dots. A lot depends on how Delta manages to cut costs. If they do it rather quickly, and then order some new long-distance planes, they could probably increase service pretty substantially. At one point they had wanted to add FLL-CDG, BOS-CDG, and supposedly LAX-CDG. They could probably do the same to AMS.
Posts: 1395
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:57 am

RE: DL/KL/AF/NW/CO Question...

Sun May 16, 2004 2:37 am

More than anything else, I'd like to see SkyTeam develop Boston as an international hub.


[Edited 2004-05-15 19:37:48]
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: DL/KL/AF/NW/CO Question...

Sun May 16, 2004 2:42 am

They could close hubs at CLE, MEM, and DFW.

*Sigh* God, it get's tiring hearing armchair QB's always talking about this.

More than anything else, I'd like to see SkyTeam develop Boston as an international hub.

Why do that when SkyTeam is about to inherit a gigantic hub in New York City? Makes no sense.
Posts: 1025
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 1999 3:47 am

RE: DL/KL/AF/NW/CO Question...

Sun May 16, 2004 4:55 am


Was that really necessary?

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