japanfan3
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Will There Ever Be A Passenger MD-10?

Sat May 15, 2004 8:45 am

Do you think there'll be a passenger version of the MD-10?
 
Blackbird1331
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RE: Will There Ever Be A Passenger MD-10?

Sat May 15, 2004 8:49 am

It was. It is now being used for freighters and such.
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MD11LuxuryLinr
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RE: Will There Ever Be A Passenger MD-10?

Sat May 15, 2004 8:50 am

At the rate the DC10s are disappearing from airlines.. Nope

 Smile
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adriaticus
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RE: Will There Ever Be A Passenger MD-10?

Sat May 15, 2004 8:51 am

I understand this modified version of the DC10 was specifically designed for cargo. This doesn't mean it cannot be fitted with seats and windows, but perhaps its performance will not be convenient (or profitable) for carrying passengers - i.e.: its structure may be way too reinforced (thus heavy) for just accomodating passengers.

Imagine using a semi fifth-wheel truck for pulling a trailer fitted with windows and seats, instead of a bus.


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DeltaMD11
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RE: Will There Ever Be A Passenger MD-10?

Sat May 15, 2004 9:08 am

"It was. It is now being used for freighters and such."

I'm a little confused by that statement. To my knowledge, the only MD-10's in the world are the 20 ex-UA birds that are with FedEx.
Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
 
adriaticus
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RE: Will There Ever Be A Passenger MD-10?

Sat May 15, 2004 9:20 am

From this sites Aircraft Data & History section (q.v.):

The Boeing MD-10 conversion for Federal Express involves fitting DC-10s (both current freighters and "new" ex airliner freighter conversions) with a two crew Honeywell VIA 2000 EFIS flightdeck with six LCD screens. The instrument panel layout is identical to that in the MD-11, and pilots can be qualified to fly the two interchangeably. First flight was on April 4 1999, while the first of 89 MD-10 conversions for FedEx was delivered on May 9 2000 (the same day the conversion was certificated). Boeing is offering the MD-10 conversion to other DC-10 operators.

This information does not mention anything about the reinforcement of the cabin's floor structrure, addition of rollerbeads, additional fuel tanks, modified a/c systems, and the cargo door fitting (including a respectable hydraulic system).

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MD11LuxuryLinr
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RE: Will There Ever Be A Passenger MD-10?

Sat May 15, 2004 9:29 am

~"the only MD-10's in the world are the 20 ex-UA birds that are with FedEx."~

Eh.. not entirely true. FedEX does have a few MD10s they converted that were never operated by UA. One that stands out from memory was the last 'new' DC10 they received in 1988 (it was a -30). It was one of the first to see the MD conversion. Also, there is one or two that were 'lease whores', a couple ex-Continental and few AA birds..  Big grin
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Blackbird1331
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RE: Will There Ever Be A Passenger MD-10?

Sat May 15, 2004 9:37 am

Symantics. It is basicly the same airplane without the center boggie and other refinements. All 10 models, as I recall, were discontinued. A newer version was manufactured and was designated the MD11.
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MD11LuxuryLinr
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RE: Will There Ever Be A Passenger MD-10?

Sat May 15, 2004 9:39 am

Blackbird.. are you confusing the DC10 and the MD10?
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JBirdAV8r
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RE: Will There Ever Be A Passenger MD-10?

Sat May 15, 2004 9:42 am

Symantics. It is basicly the same airplane without the center boggie and other refinements. All 10 models, as I recall, were discontinued. A newer version was manufactured and was designated the MD11.

Umm...no??

Neither the DC-10 nor the MD-11 are built anymore.

The MD-10 is a MODIFICATION of an EXISTING DC-10 AIRFRAME.

Center bogies have nothing to do with it. If it's a conversion of a DC-10-10, it doesn't have the center bogie. If it's a -30 conversion, it does. Simple as that.
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DeltaMD11
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RE: Will There Ever Be A Passenger MD-10?

Sat May 15, 2004 9:56 am

Ryan,
I'll have to do some info hunting...I though that FedEx was converting 20 -10's that it picked up from UA first. I must be mistaken then. Though point in hand, I think Blackbird is confusing the DC-10 with the MD-10 which was the gusto of my original post.
Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
 
mNeo
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RE: Will There Ever Be A Passenger MD-10?

Sat May 15, 2004 10:09 am

MD-10 are going to FED-EX because they have fleet comunality with existing fleet of MD11s. NO passenger MD10s will be seen because aircarriers haveno profit in changing the cockpit of their DC10s
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planespotting
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RE: Will There Ever Be A Passenger MD-10?

Sat May 15, 2004 10:36 am

yes the only "new" a/c that FedEx is receiving for the next few years are the MD-10's.
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adriaticus
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RE: Will There Ever Be A Passenger MD-10?

Sat May 15, 2004 5:06 pm

yes the only "new" a/c that FedEx is receiving for the next few years are the MD-10's.

Maybe... That is, at least until we receive the first 9 firmly-ordered of 20 A380-600F, starting in late 2008.

There are, however, still 69 more MD-10's to be delivered to Fedex...

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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Will There Ever Be A Passenger MD-10?

Sat May 15, 2004 5:10 pm

off subject---

but is anyone else getting crossed links on the 2nd pic in Reply #3? ...or is that just me?

[Edited 2004-05-15 10:10:18]
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AirframeAS
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RE: Will There Ever Be A Passenger MD-10?

Sat May 15, 2004 5:14 pm

The only change of the MD-10 is the elimination of the flight engineer and now can fly with only 2 cockpit crew members at one time. So the only change is the improved avionics and glass cockpits from what Ive heard from people and read on Airways Magazine.
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MD11LuxuryLinr
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RE: Will There Ever Be A Passenger MD-10?

Sat May 15, 2004 8:08 pm

~"but is anyone else getting crossed links on the 2nd pic in Reply #3? ...or is that just me?"~

It's not just you Concordeboy.. It's showing up as an Edelweiss A330 with me too..  Big grin
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oerk
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RE: Will There Ever Be A Passenger MD-10?

Sat May 15, 2004 8:38 pm

An A330... what the....!?!
 
MYT332
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RE: Will There Ever Be A Passenger MD-10?

Sat May 15, 2004 8:47 pm



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LMP737
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RE: Will There Ever Be A Passenger MD-10?

Sun May 16, 2004 12:19 am

"It was. It is now being used for freighters and such."

I might be reading this wrong but there never was an MD-10 passenger aircraft. Every MD-10 started out as a pax DC-10 and then converted to MD-10 standard or as a DC-10F converted into an MD-10.
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gigneil
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RE: Will There Ever Be A Passenger MD-10?

Sun May 16, 2004 2:09 am

There never has been a passenger MD-10...

...but there's no reason there couldn't be.

I think there are some of us that, out of jest, are surprised NW didn't go for it.  Laugh out loud

N
 
LMP737
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RE: Will There Ever Be A Passenger MD-10?

Sun May 16, 2004 7:15 am

No reason there could'nt be but extremly unlikely there ever will be a pax MD-10. But I'm sure NWA would the first customer.  Big grin
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737-990
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RE: Will There Ever Be A Passenger MD-10?

Sun May 16, 2004 7:27 am

As with everything in this industry you have to weigh the pros and cons. There are a lot of passenger DC-10s in the desert that can be converted over to the 2 crew MD-10. The pros would be cheaper purchasing cost compared to newer aircraft. The cons would be significantly higher fuel cost with a 3 engine aircraft versus a comparably sized 767-400 or A330, and higher maintenance cost. With the current cost of jet fuel I doubt you'll see any airline taking on any DC/MD-10s anytime soon.
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Kerberos
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RE: Will There Ever Be A Passenger MD-10?

Sun May 16, 2004 7:28 am

Imagine using a semi fifth-wheel truck for pulling a trailer fitted with windows and seats, instead of a bus.

It works for the Cubans... Never had the pleasure of riding in one though:

http://www.kerberos.ca/images/camelbus.jpg
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Will There Ever Be A Passenger MD-10?

Sun May 16, 2004 7:32 am

I think there are some of us that, out of jest, are surprised NW didn't go for it.

I was joking with a DC-10 captain, obviously NW, and asked him why NW didn't upgrade the fleet to MD-10s. I was just messing with him, and he replyed in complete seriousness that many DC10 flight engineers were nervous as hell of being eliminated, but it turns out NW never considered it.

With the A330s, the days of the DC-10 are numbered.

Regards,
DFW
 
JohnJ
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RE: Will There Ever Be A Passenger MD-10?

Sun May 16, 2004 12:01 pm

"Imagine using a semi fifth-wheel truck for pulling a trailer fitted with windows and seats, instead of a bus.

It works for the Cubans... Never had the pleasure of riding in one though:"

It also works for those using transit in Orange County, California:

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/5415/sbus.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/5415/sbusbk.jpg

(This doesn't seem to work as a direct link - you can cut and paste into your browser address window if you want to see this Capre Super Bus)

[Edited 2004-05-16 05:04:52]

[Edited 2004-05-16 05:05:33]
 
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RE: Will There Ever Be A Passenger MD-10?

Sun May 16, 2004 12:32 pm

...he replyed in complete seriousness that many DC10 flight engineers were nervous as hell of being eliminated, but it turns out NW never considered it.

If this conversation really took place, then he wasn't serious. NW's flight engineers are the lowest senority / lowest paid employees... NW hasn't had professional FE in nearly 40 years.

NW originally acquired the DC-10-30 for cheap expansion, then kept adding to the fleet after the decision was made to cancel the A340 and defer the A330. Circa 1996, NW made a decision to renew its long-haul fleet with DC-10-30 that featured new interiors, updated cockpit technologies, etc. -- I firmly believe this decision was made to "create shareholder value" since the price of acquiring and updating a DC-10 was signifcantly cheaper than that of taking on new-build aircraft.

Ever since Richard Anderson has come on board, NW's placed an emphesis on fleet renewal. While the DC-10 are slated to operate resort flights into the next decade, I believe NW will phase them out ASAP due to their horrible economics (and unique engine type) -- especially in an era of record fuel prices.

This notion that NW’s an airline that prefers to operate old planes is ridiculous. NW historically turned over its fleet faster than its peers and as late as 1991 had plans to phase its B727 out by 1996, and its DC-10 by 2000 making them the first of the “Big 7” to do so. Because NW hit hard times, was unable to get the pricing they wanted and choose to refurbish and utilize older aircraft for another decade does not mean that trend will continue.
 
EAL757
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RE: Will There Ever Be A Passenger MD-10?

Mon May 17, 2004 5:04 am

the comment was made that FedEx was expecting 69 more MD-10's? ...are these DC-10's from other airlines, or are we talking about the vast fleet of DC-10's FedEx already has, waiting to be converted?

-Jeff
 
MD11LuxuryLinr
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RE: Will There Ever Be A Passenger MD-10?

Mon May 17, 2004 5:23 am

~"the comment was made that FedEx was expecting 69 more MD-10's? ...are these DC-10's from other airlines, or are we talking about the vast fleet of DC-10's FedEx already has, waiting to be converted? "~

FedEx is converting both their DC10s they are already flying, plus the ones they bought from AA and UA. FedEx has decided to scrap a lot of the older AA models (including line #1  Sad ) and a few of the older UA ones.. all of which were going to be kept and converted at one point (some even had new FE registration numbers). I doubt FedEx will buy any more DC10s from other airlines, but you never know. From what I hear, the MD10 conversion program as slowed considerably since 9/11. No surprise there.
Caution wake turbulence, you are following a heavy jet.