Posts: 485
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 5:38 pm

Virgin Blue Vs Qantas, Qantas Have The Edge.

Sun May 16, 2004 3:06 pm

A report from CASA found that Qantas on-time performance is at 93.4% while Virgin Blue's is at 88.9%,also, Virgin Blue now can't say that their generally 45% lower then QF (in terms of price) as the report found that they are actually only 14% lower and in some cases they are 10% higher (although the same can be said about QF) I obtained this info from The Daily Telegraph on the 2nd of May. I would of though that Virgin Blue was more then 14% lower then QF? Can anyone confirm that this info is correct?
Ron Paul 2012
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Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 8:41 pm

RE: Virgin Blue Vs Qantas, Qantas Have The Edge.

Sun May 16, 2004 3:18 pm

I don't know about Qantas, but I booked a flight for two people from the Gold Coast to Sydney in June and Virgin were $50 more expensive. Virgin's price was about $119 one way and Jetstar's was $69 one way. Which one would you choose! So of course I booked with Jetstar. I believe that Virgin arn't going to be able to compete with these prices but Jetstar may not be able to keep their prices so low.
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Virgin Blue Vs Qantas, Qantas Have The Edge.

Sun May 16, 2004 3:24 pm

Fuffla was that just a stir up price to come into the market
Ron Paul 2012
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Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

RE: Virgin Blue Vs Qantas, Qantas Have The Edge.

Sun May 16, 2004 3:36 pm

These things are manipulated stats for marketing purposes.

What you actually need to look at is the price per ASK, and also the yield per ASK. That tells you the complete story. Who pays the most, on average to fly 1km on that airline and how much does it cost the company to carry that person. For those with enough financial savy to be able to interpret the figures, and not simply buy the hogwash bs at the front of the annual report have a good look in the financial stats.
Bear in Mind though, Both QF and DJ have been working hard to improve things so last years figures are going to be slightly more expensive than this years(in terms of operating costs)
(all companies put it in... im not critising anybody, its merely modern protocol, and appeals to the "mums and dads" shareholders that don't have a bloody clue what their company is actually doing)

This is the free market folks, its capitalism ain't it great! All of what you are witnessing now is nothing but a response to Virgin. Something Ansett never ever was able to achieve (not through lack of trying though).

From what I have been able to determin, Qantas have a domestic cost of about $0.10 per ASK. Virgin a bit over $0.08, and Impusle around $0.087, although this will definately fall when the A320s arrive. They're claiming to the point of $0.078. Now whilest that may not seem like much difference, it effectly means that Virgin Costs ON AVERAGE (important because it can vary significantly depends on actually route.... think about how efficient those A330-300s are. They use less fuel per passenger than the average family car!!!!!) are significantly lower. a $0.02 difference is a 20% costs difference!

As for ontime performance... Well done Qantas. I have heard that it is largely due to a change in workplace practices, especially morning proceedures on the Key East Coast Cityflyer routes. Earlier boarding etc.. Its good to see that kind of improvment. Indeed, Australian carriers generally have good operating conditions. No Snow, little fog, uncongested airspace and only 1 slot restricted airport in the whole country. Given that, they should be able to achieve amoungst the worlds best ontime. Anything less can be more attributed to workplace practices/cultural constraints of the customers( slack arses not turning up ontime and causing delays)

I remember a time just a few years ago, when litereally EVERY SECOND Ansett or Qantas domestic flight i took was delayed by AT LEAST 20 minutes. How i longed for the efficiency of Lufthansa or SAS.(everything works like clockwork at Lufthansa... you can set your watch by them) Seems like we're getting there now, don't you think?

[Edited 2004-05-16 08:48:34]
Posts: 507
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 10:29 pm

RE: Virgin Blue Vs Qantas, Qantas Have The Edge.

Sun May 16, 2004 3:36 pm

In January I booked a return flight for 2 people from BNE-MEL with QF. From BNE the flight was $90, return $100 each. Checked DJ's prices, $110 from BNE and over $120 return! i guess it was QF's summer red E deals sale, but still, if you get full service cheaper, why not?!

QANTAS-- The Spirit of Australia
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Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:41 am

RE: Virgin Blue Vs Qantas, Qantas Have The Edge.

Sun May 16, 2004 4:13 pm

if you get full service cheaper, why not?!
This is pure luck. If you find yourself in this situation (as many of us have), then by all means take it... just don't expect this to happen every time. The way things are presently, it really comes down to how far in advance you book...

QF have been trying hard to maintain their low prices (red e-deals) in order to remain competitive against DJ, until Jetstar begins operations. Once Jetstar starts, I think we will see a thinning out of QF red e-deal seats on flights as all the budget travellers should be on Jetstar.

Introducing Jetstar is one of the smartest things QF have ever done. Once they are up and running, QF as they go back to legitimately charging an amount closer to the real cost of providing a full service flight. Red e-deals BNE-SYD for $89 are nice but not sustainable in terms of profitability for QF.

I believe there will still be limited availability of these prices for those who book well in advance; but now QF can concentrate on the business sector pax and leave Jetstar and DJ to fight it out for the budget traveller's dollar.

In any case, there are interesting times ahead...
Last time 3 airlines tried to operate domestically in Aust, one came off third best - let's hope lessons have been learned.

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Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:15 pm

RE: Virgin Blue Vs Qantas, Qantas Have The Edge.

Sun May 16, 2004 5:22 pm

If you are in a Qantas Terminal you will also know that the clocks at the terminal and the boards are set several minutes fast, designed to get slow moving passenger to their flights a bit faster. In Sydney I noticed it on the boards located around gates 3 to 6 on my last couple of flights.

Seems like this ploy is working.
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Joined: Fri Oct 29, 1999 1:28 pm

RE: Virgin Blue Vs Qantas, Qantas Have The Edge.

Sun May 16, 2004 9:07 pm


Qantas it appears certainly have the edge over VB when it comes to the latest on time performance! I also read an article in the Daily Telegraph newspaper yesterday, stating that VB's shareholders are getting very annoyed & dumping the stock after it plunged from its listing price of $2.60odd down to $2.16 last week! Qantas has also been affected by the rise in fuel, however it has been quick to add a fuel surcharge & the market seemed to like that late last week!
VB, REX and others added a fuel surcharge late last week!

With JetStar starting next week, VB's impressive growth is finished for the time being! They will have to work even harder now to attract & keep their customer base!

The customer/consumer will be the winner! Maybe QF Too?

Cheers - BZF  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Ansett Australia - (was) One of the worlds great airlines!
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RE: Virgin Blue Vs Qantas, Qantas Have The Edge.

Mon May 17, 2004 7:14 am

QF later this year will be rolling out a new biz/economy domestic food/service enhancements. JQ begin to take delivery of some A320s mid year, QF also begins to take delivery of more 738s from mid year as well.

DJ look as if they will have an uphill fight to get past the 35% market share.

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