AMS
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Lufthansa And Double Seat Numbers

Sun May 16, 2004 5:20 pm

As a frequent traveler on LH, I notice that many times Passengers are issued boarding passes with the same seat numbers. Off course this can happen on any Airline, But on my last 5 Lufthansa flights there were at least 5-6 people with double seat numbers. This causes big problems, especially when the flight is fully booked and then there will be a delay and the possibility that the airplane will miss its slot time.

Anyone also encountered similar experiences?

Regards,
AMS
 
L1011Lover
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RE: Lufthansa And Double Seat Numbers

Sun May 16, 2004 5:40 pm

You´re absolutely right!!!

I´m a F/A in the LH company group and I have to deal with it all the time!!!

It´s horrible, and I really don´t understand, why the hell in our modern days of computerized ticketing/check-In/boarding... etc. it is such a big problem to avoid double seating???

L1011Lover
 
standby87
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RE: Lufthansa And Double Seat Numbers

Sun May 16, 2004 7:34 pm

Dupe seats are a nightmare in DCS (Departure Control System)
It's a nightmare for crew, dispatcher, the programmers and of course the poor passengers affected.

They happen to every airline, but they should never occur as frequently as Ams claims to have seen.

I could write all day on the technical reasons behind them, but I won't bore you with geek talk.

If September 11th hadn't happened, Lufthansa Systems and Atraxis (former Swissair IT) would have merged and maybe...just maybe, Lufty would be on the ex-Swissair TPF operating system which (I'm very biased) is more robust than Unisys' solution

[Edited 2004-05-16 12:35:58]
 
fido73
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RE: Lufthansa And Double Seat Numbers

Sun May 16, 2004 8:39 pm

Somebody involved with the LH DCS has changed the seats of passengers who have already checked-in, and forgot to put a message about this for the gate or the gate agent has ignored the message. Then we have multiple passengers on the aisle arguing over the same seat and holding the boarding of others, causing a mess and most probably a delay. Less staff, more stress and more mistakes.
Long Beach Iron Works - still going strong!
 
standby87
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RE: Lufthansa And Double Seat Numbers

Sun May 16, 2004 10:06 pm

Thanks Fido - it's not always a software error in DCS.

"Less staff, more stress and more mistakes"

Sounds familiar...

 
globetrekker
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RE: Lufthansa And Double Seat Numbers

Mon May 17, 2004 8:56 am

What happens with KLM sometimes is that a check-in agent changes seats without entering a comment to inform the gate agent, or sometimes agents from an upline station changes the seat, just not to deal with angry passengers. They just shift the problem to the next station.

I have to honestly say that some agents in Aruba did it also. We check in pax on KLM from Aruba to AMS, but most pax have an onward destination, for instance: AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA, CDG, HKG etc. We issue boarding passes for all segments. However sometimes a passengers gets angry, because he wanted a particular seat and we just offloaded a pax that had that seat reserved and put our pax on first. The problem is now for KLM in AMS. This happens if you use KL DCS all the way and you are online. If you use just a local offline DCS everything is possible. We also sometimes get problems when the pax has a boarding pass issued through an interline through check-in (ITCI).

GT
The World Is A Book And Those Who Do Not Travel Read Only A Page
 
dstc47
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RE: Lufthansa And Double Seat Numbers

Mon May 17, 2004 10:36 am

I had a recent wierd experience on Aer Lingus.

On a two sector trip I checked in, and got two boarding cards.
Looked at the top one - correct flight, seat, my name for the second sector.
Got to the gate and noticed that the first boarding card, it was indeed for the seat the agent said, it had my FF number, but it had a different name on it, that of a person unknown to me, but one strongly suggesting they were a national of the destination city / country.

I checked in alone, and there had been no one just before me at the desk.
Got it changed, of course, but at least three pax had incorrect seat assignments on that flight too.

Any theories, had the seat been allocated earlier at another location?
 
globetrekker
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RE: Lufthansa And Double Seat Numbers

Mon May 17, 2004 1:16 pm

I think what happened was that the Service Agent at the check-in desk just retrieved a wrong name and entered your info on that particular name by mistake.
What I am now wondering is if the luggage you checked in was also entered on that persons name?

GT
The World Is A Book And Those Who Do Not Travel Read Only A Page
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Lufthansa And Double Seat Numbers

Mon May 17, 2004 4:45 pm

Re: "maybe...just maybe, Lufty would be on the ex-Swissair TPF operating system "

HIGHLY unlikely ! A far far more likely scenario would have been that LX would have moved onto Lufthansa multihost Inventory system and moved their Distribution function to Amadeus, saving themselves a ton of money paid to EDS for the use of Atraxis.

I agree that the DCS package on the IPARS RES/DCS systems are generally more robust that USAS, and it seems from experience to be much more difficult to dupe seat on IPARS, it can still happen.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Lufthansa And Double Seat Numbers

Mon May 17, 2004 9:55 pm

It´s horrible, and I really don´t understand, why the hell in our modern days of computerized ticketing/check-In/boarding... etc. it is such a big problem to avoid double seating???

While I can understand your frustration, after many in the computer business I can tell you it is anything but easy. These systems are extremely complex. But the main problems are legacy and middleware.
- Legacy - The system constantly gets upgraded, but still has to do the old functions (for example to talk to other systems). Nightmare for a coder.
- Middleware - The system talks to other systems, which talk to other systems. Three systems down the line, something is changed, which has an unexpected effect on your system.

Glitches galore.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
AMS
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RE: Lufthansa And Double Seat Numbers

Tue May 18, 2004 3:19 am

Also I forgot to mention that many people with double seats numbers on LH seems to have E-tix Tickets, but I don't understand why this is happening so frequent.
 
standby87
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RE: Lufthansa And Double Seat Numbers

Tue May 18, 2004 5:07 am

Hiya JGPH1A - long time no hear! I don't get much time on a.net these days: mini-me is walking now and destroying the appartment.

I could be sarcy and reply that Swissair would still be flying if it hadn't been for Sep 11th! But I think it's true. Corti was about to sell Swissport and ditch Sabena, then within 24 hours the values of assets like MD11s, Swissport, Atraxis and Gate Gourmet went through the floor.

Sticking to DCS - I have heard that Lufthansa's DCS "wasn't coping under the strain", but one throwaway comment from a Swiss guy isn't enough to make a judgement.

EDS? They weren't in the equation at that time. As I know, the contract signature for the merger/takeover of Lufty Systems and Atraxis was due on 14th September 2001.

3 years on, it's not impossible that Swiss could pull out of One-World and go into bed with Star, who knows in this mad business!

Cheers,
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Lufthansa And Double Seat Numbers

Tue May 18, 2004 6:07 pm

Hey Standby - good to see u again...

From recent meetings etc it seems LX are very much in bed with Oneworld now - lots of synergy explorations going on right now. But yes, things can change - watch this space !

Have fun with mini-me !

Cheers
J.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
AC
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RE: Lufthansa And Double Seat Numbers

Tue May 18, 2004 7:11 pm

what will the cabin crew do if the original class is full? Will any passenger be upgraded to Business or First class? Or will ask the Y-class passenger to go and unload his luggage?
I Believe I Can Fly...
 
AMS
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RE: Lufthansa And Double Seat Numbers

Tue May 18, 2004 7:15 pm

AC,

Normally the Crew will try to find other seats in Y class, if not available then they will look at C class. If they cannot accommodate the pax, then they will have to off-load the PAX. I have seen many PAX screeming to F/A. Off course I can understand their frustration. LH Should implement a more reliable system.

regards,
AMS
 
AC
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RE: Lufthansa And Double Seat Numbers

Tue May 18, 2004 8:59 pm

Thanks, Ams.

If really need to move to higher classes, who will move? The one who board later or the one who check-in later? I guess both of them want to move if they know there is upgrade.....

AC
I Believe I Can Fly...
 
Delta777Jet
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RE: Lufthansa And Double Seat Numbers

Tue May 18, 2004 9:08 pm

I worked for Lufthansa quite long on the Frankfurt hub. When a flight is full they upgrade their frequent Travellers in advance if Y-Cl is overbooked and C-Cl is full! I once was upgraded from Y-Cl to C-Cl and somebody was sitting in my seat! He was a Star Alliance Gold Card holder and good bumped up to First Class w/o knowing it! After stress with the cabin crew they upgraded me into First Class (from Y-YL originally!), I guess it was my day!

Patrick
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globetrekker
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RE: Lufthansa And Double Seat Numbers

Tue May 18, 2004 9:25 pm

I speak for KLM here:

If the Flight Attendant has double seating problems, he/she just calls a member of the ground crew to solve the problem. After all it is our mistake/problem. It is part of our job. That's why we have a Service Agent on board at all times at the time of boarding.

When I do pre-flight editing, and I have a full flight, the first thing I do is start upgrading Gold/Elite members to World Business Class.
After that I upgrade full fare economy passengers (S-Class). And I keep shifting around until I cannot go anymore.

If the flight is overbooked then I start offloading pax with a confirmed duty ticket if there are any. After that the only option is to look for volunteers at the time of check-in, who are willing to stay another day, or who are willing to travel via another route. This is compensated ofcourse. I f we do not get any volunteers than the nasty job of starting to deny boarding to passengers (a nice way of saying "bumping") by a certain system and profusely apologizing to them for the inconvenience KLM may have caused them.

By then ofcourse my ears would be ringing by the pax screaming at me, but it is all in a days job.



[Edited 2004-05-18 14:26:46]
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