Guest

NW To Inaugurate SEA/KOA Effective July 15

Mon May 17, 2004 9:06 am

Due to performance issues with the B753 on OGG's short runway, NW was forced to sell OGG-SEA with only 175 seats (while their B753 accomodate up to 224). So NW will opt to fly SEA-OGG nonstop, then OGG-KOA-SEA... service begins July 15.

NW927
departs Seattle, WA - 3:30PM
arrives Kahului/Maui, HI - 6:23PM

NW926
departs Kahului/Maui, HI - 7:40PM
arrives Kona, HI - 8:18PM
continues onto...
departs Kona, HI - 9:20PM
arrives Seattle, WA - 5:58AM+1

all flights operated with B757-300
 
scottysair
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RE: NW To Inaugurate SEA/KOA Effective July 15

Mon May 17, 2004 9:10 am

It is very good to hear for new nonstop from KOA-SEA this summer and they will force to get selling with their ticket to Hawaii.
 
BillElliott9
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RE: NW To Inaugurate SEA/KOA Effective July 15

Mon May 17, 2004 9:22 am

Interesting. I wonder if this will this drive them to get some of the 7572s ETOPS, now? Or is this already being done? Seems like they are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole with this routing of the 7573.
You can fight without ever winning but never really win without a fight.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: NW To Inaugurate SEA/KOA Effective July 15

Mon May 17, 2004 9:27 am

Excellent news! At least Funjet isn't operating the service on behalf of NWA.  Smile


Steve/MSY
 
m404
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RE: NW To Inaugurate SEA/KOA Effective July 15

Mon May 17, 2004 9:43 am

Do I remember this very problem being discussed here before and our A.netters wondering it that original routing could be correct due to the loads available on the runway? This sounds a little embarassing.
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 
StevenUhl777
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RE: NW To Inaugurate SEA/KOA Effective July 15

Mon May 17, 2004 9:44 am

Any plans to extend the runway at OGG? Or would the cost to do so far exceed any economic benefits from doing so?
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
Guest

RE: NW To Inaugurate SEA/KOA Effective July 15

Mon May 17, 2004 9:44 am

Do I remember this very problem being discussed here before and our A.netters wondering it that original routing could be correct due to the loads available on the runway?

Maybe I'm Richard Anderson! Big grin
 
nwcoflyer
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RE: NW To Inaugurate SEA/KOA Effective July 15

Mon May 17, 2004 9:47 am

This is good news. Has anyone heard the potential of SEA-KIX being added anytime soon. I was talking to an FA last week, and she told me she heard that SEA-KIX was being considered.
The New American is arriving.
 
Guest

RE: NW To Inaugurate SEA/KOA Effective July 15

Mon May 17, 2004 9:53 am

I was talking to an FA last week, and she told me she heard that SEA-KIX was being considered.

NW operated SEA-KIX from 1995 until 2001 (in May of that year, NW announced the flight would be terminated effective late October but 9-11 shortened its run by a month). NW had plans to reinaugurate SEA-KIX (again with a DC-10) on a seasonal basis last summer, but SARS / the conflict in Iraq put an end to those plans.

With the more efficient and smaller A332 coming online, I'd expect NW to once again give the route consideration.
 
PlaneGuy27
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RE: NW To Inaugurate SEA/KOA Effective July 15

Mon May 17, 2004 9:56 am

I heard that NW was indeed planning SEA-KIX but that plane went to operate the new PDX-NRT flight.
 
Guest

RE: NW To Inaugurate SEA/KOA Effective July 15

Mon May 17, 2004 9:58 am

I heard that NW was indeed planning SEA-KIX but that plane went to operate the new PDX-NRT flight.

NW has an enormous amont of spare DC-10 and B742 aircraft.  Laugh out loud
 
BH346
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RE: NW To Inaugurate SEA/KOA Effective July 15

Mon May 17, 2004 10:02 am

I would love to see SEA-KIX back, I've flown on the route on some occasions and it was always an enjoyable route to fly on. What was the problems with the route that suspended it a few years ago? I though I heard that the loads were good but the yields were poor. Any more talk of expansion at Osaka or maybe the new Central Japan International Airport in Nagoya?
Northwest Airlines - Some People Just Know How to Fly
 
nwcoflyer
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RE: NW To Inaugurate SEA/KOA Effective July 15

Mon May 17, 2004 10:05 am

IP, I know NW plans on keeping a dozen or so DC-10s for at least the next 5 years. Do you think NW will expand trans-Pacific Op's considerably over the next few years? All of those -10s will have to go somewhere after the 333s take over the Atlantic routes, and 332s take the Pacific routes. Or is NW planning to use them on intra-Asia routes?
The New American is arriving.
 
Guest

RE: NW To Inaugurate SEA/KOA Effective July 15

Mon May 17, 2004 10:18 am

Nwcoflyer,
NW has no definite plans at this point... however, I suspect that NW will give in to rising fuel prices and park what's left of their DC-10 and B742 fleets. I wouldn't expect a major expansion in the Pacific - probably a resumption of some of the resort routes that were cut in 1998 (e.g. NGO-HNL, maybe KIX-SPN/GUM with B757 - I don't know the distance/range) and possibly an expansion to HKG and maybe ICN (SkyTeam) from DTW. I'd expect SEA/MSP/more DTW frequency-CDG to get consideration from NW/AF but not much more across the Atlantic...
 
Cory6188
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RE: NW To Inaugurate SEA/KOA Effective July 15

Mon May 17, 2004 11:25 am

If NW is having problems with their 753 from OGG to SEA, then how the heck is CO's 764 making it to IAH?
 
Guest

RE: NW To Inaugurate SEA/KOA Effective July 15

Mon May 17, 2004 11:28 am

If NW is having problems with their 753 from OGG to SEA, then how the heck is CO's 764 making it to IAH?

...because the GE-powered B764 doesn't have the take-off issues that the PW-powered B753 has.
 
Cory6188
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RE: NW To Inaugurate SEA/KOA Effective July 15

Mon May 17, 2004 11:31 am

So could a CO 762 or 764 make it to EWR from OGG? A CO F/A recently told me (admittedly, F/A's aren't the greatest source of info) that CO wanted to do EWR-OGG due to the success of IAH-OGG, but that there was no plane that could do it.
 
Guest

RE: NW To Inaugurate SEA/KOA Effective July 15

Mon May 17, 2004 11:41 am

CO does indeed have the aircraft to operate OGG-EWR (there’s B762 scheduled to fly between EWR/LAX into next year; in addition, CO’s retiring older aircraft as it takes delivery of new ones – it’s more-than-feasible that they would keep the older aircraft within their fleet for a little longer, utilizing new ones for growth & converting some B752 back into a BF-configuration for transcons or wherever) although it’d likely be restricted (it’s a much longer flight than that to IAH).

Given that CO has had plenty of awards seats to OGG available and scattered about whereas HNL has been tight, I’d reckon CO doesn’t have the need for another flight… I’d suspect a third IAH-HNL would be more practical…


[Edited 2004-05-17 04:49:48]
 
Boeing757/767
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RE: NW To Inaugurate SEA/KOA Effective July 15

Mon May 17, 2004 11:07 pm

And here is the news release:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040517/cgm039_1.html

Northwest Airlines Announces Service to Kona, Hawaii
Monday May 17, 10:00 am ET
Daily Flights Between Seattle and the Big Island to Begin July 15


MINNEAPOLIS, May 17 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Northwest Airlines (Nasdaq: NWAC - News) today announced it will begin daily service between Seattle and Kona, Hawaii, beginning July 15.
Northwest's current service between Seattle/Tacoma and Kahului, Maui, will be extended to Kona, enabling passengers to reach the Big Island with just one stop. The Kona-Seattle return flight will operate nonstop.

Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
FoxBravo
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RE: NW To Inaugurate SEA/KOA Effective July 15

Tue May 18, 2004 4:17 am

Even if this was motivated primarily by performance issues, it's not the end of the world, and if anything might be a blessing in disguise. KOA is a huge market, and I guarantee that many NW frequent fliers (myself included!) will be pleased to hear this.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
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drerx7
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RE: NW To Inaugurate SEA/KOA Effective July 15

Tue May 18, 2004 4:28 am

"CO does indeed have the aircraft to operate OGG-EWR (there’s B762 scheduled to fly between EWR/LAX into next year"

Actually Continental doesn't--and I don't believe there is any aircraft that can operate this flight profitably. The issue is with the short runway length at OGG--the severe weight restrictions prevent any substantial loads with winds for a nonstop flight to the East Coast all 365days. Of course the planes have the range but they won't be able to get off the runway before it ends--with a full load of payload and fuel at least.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
gigneil
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RE: NW To Inaugurate SEA/KOA Effective July 15

Tue May 18, 2004 5:04 am

Why doesn't NW just operate SEA-OGG with a 752?

N
 
Cory6188
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RE: NW To Inaugurate SEA/KOA Effective July 15

Tue May 18, 2004 5:09 am

OGG-EWR wouldn't be fighting the wind; it would be going with the wind, so that would only be a boon, not a problem. As for the EWR-OGG segment, the amount of runway needed for landing is much shorter than the amount needed for takeoff, so it wouldn't be an issue.
 
Cory6188
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RE: NW To Inaugurate SEA/KOA Effective July 15

Tue May 18, 2004 5:14 am

On a side note, if a CO 73G can make it off of a 5700' runway to EWR from SNA, couldn't a 762 (with much more power for its size) make it from OGG on a 7000' runway?
 
gigneil
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RE: NW To Inaugurate SEA/KOA Effective July 15

Tue May 18, 2004 5:24 am

To SNA, maybe.

N




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Boeing757/767
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RE: NW To Inaugurate SEA/KOA Effective July 15

Tue May 18, 2004 5:26 am

Gigneil,

NW is getting its entire fleet of 757-300s ETOPS certified -- so that's what they're using for most Hawaii routes going forward. With a larger capacity, the -300 is better suited for Hawaii flights.
Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
gigneil
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RE: NW To Inaugurate SEA/KOA Effective July 15

Tue May 18, 2004 5:37 am

Understandable, where the plane can make it.

Is the expense of a stopover in KOA lower than the lost revenue of switching to a 752?

N
 
azjubilee
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RE: NW To Inaugurate SEA/KOA Effective July 15

Tue May 18, 2004 5:46 am

Gigniel - the 752s aren't ETOPS certified. That completely eliminates that fleet type for a solution.


AZJ
 
MAH4546
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RE: NW To Inaugurate SEA/KOA Effective July 15

Tue May 18, 2004 6:59 am

Understandable, where the plane can make it.

Is the expense of a stopover in KOA lower than the lost revenue of switching to a 752?


I'm sure it is more than made up for by the added revenue that Kona brings. Kona is also more likely a stronger yielding market, with less seats and less flights to the mainline.

[Edited 2004-05-17 23:59:42]
a.
 
B4REAL
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RE: NW To Inaugurate SEA/KOA Effective July 15

Tue May 18, 2004 7:14 am

Does anyone know if NW intends to sell tickets for only the OGG-KOA and KOA-OGG legs of these flights?
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: NW To Inaugurate SEA/KOA Effective July 15

Tue May 18, 2004 7:26 am

That would be interesting if they did, B4. With the OGG/KOA flights now going to Dash 8s i bet they could bring in a few pax on this flight. Smart move in my opinion.


And what makes this possible as well, is that there stands a chance that the plane, 753, could take off from OGG almost fully loaded to KOA. So where is the benefit?


In the fuel. They don't have to load much fuel onto the plane for the OGG-KOA segment, so now NW can get away with a fully loaded 753 taking off from OGG because the low amount of fuel compensates for additional pax weight. Once at KOA they can fill up the tanks and use that 11,000ft runway for a nice profitable flight back to the mainland. Very, very smart.

[Edited 2004-05-18 00:27:44]
 
B4REAL
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RE: NW To Inaugurate SEA/KOA Effective July 15

Tue May 18, 2004 7:32 am

Thanks, Aloha717200 There is some competition on the OGG-KOA route it looks like with Aloha and Air Nevada operating it already. Would just make sense to sell the seats, but I know margins are tight inter-island in HI.

That may complicate the luggage and gate situation, however. Something to think about.
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
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drerx7
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RE: NW To Inaugurate SEA/KOA Effective July 15

Tue May 18, 2004 9:25 pm

Do a search on the forum--it is common knowledge that the runway at OGG is far to short for CO 767s to operate to EWR nonstop without payload penalties--it would not be economical--they would have to have a tech stop. Continental has expressed interest in the route; however the economics of it are in question.
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