Victor
Topic Author
Posts: 93
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2001 11:21 pm

CX Flying To Israel?

Fri May 21, 2004 12:59 am

Cathay Pacific Airlines considering flying to Israel

The largest airline in the Far East is reviewing the possibility of operating a flight to Israel, within its intention of establishing flights to Middle East
David Lipkin

The splendor of the Orient is making its way to Israel. The largest Far Eastern airline, Cathay Pacific, is examining the possibility of operating a flight from the Far East to Israel.

Augustus Tang, Cathay Pacific Airline’s Director of Corporate Planning, told Maariv that the move was being examined as part of company plans to establish flights from the Far East to the Middle East.

According to Tang, in light of the increasing travel between Israel and from several Middle Eastern nations to the Far East, the company would like to begin operating flights between the two areas. The fine points are being scrutinized. Tang believes that a decision, to be based on a review of the data and of feasibility, will be made within several months.

Cathay Pacific Airlines is known for showing strong profitability. The company consistently wins numerous prestigious international awards for its service year after year. Based in Hong Kong, the company has a fleet of 94 modern planes, and operates lines from Hong Kong to Los Angeles, New York and European capitals.
______________

[Edited 2004-05-20 18:01:19]

[Edited 2004-05-20 18:01:45]
 
amirs
Posts: 1184
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 7:20 am

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Fri May 21, 2004 1:05 am

A little direct competition on the route cannot hurt.
As of now, EL AL is the only airline operating non stop flights from TLV - far east.
 
lh600
Posts: 157
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:21 pm

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Fri May 21, 2004 1:06 am

They were also considering flying to Tehran a couple of years ago. What happened? It would be nice having a Far Eastern carrier in Tehran.  Smile
 
kl911
Posts: 3981
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:10 am

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Fri May 21, 2004 1:08 am

Wow, that would be perfect news for Tel Aviv! It's logic that CX will choose TLV since that's where the business is in the region.
 
AC
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 1:54 am

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Fri May 21, 2004 1:32 am

not sure what will be the demand for this routine, but i am quite sure that CX's crew will have another "favourite" destination other than BAH and BOM
I Believe I Can Fly...
 
yegbey01
Posts: 1349
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 11:04 am

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Fri May 21, 2004 1:39 am

KL911,

how is TLV the place where the business is in the region????

 
iowa744fan
Posts: 906
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 1:31 pm

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Fri May 21, 2004 1:42 am

Not to turn this into a geography discussion, but a few questions. Which part of Asia is considered the Far East? Where exactly does Southeast Asia start? Finally, what is Japan considered a part of?

I was a bit intrigued by the comment:

The largest Far Eastern airline, Cathay Pacific,

I would assume that SQ is considered SE Asia, but what about JAL and ANA? What is Japan considered? I know that they would be tops in terms of passengers, I believe number of aircraft as well, but perhaps not in terms of RPMs. I guess that it all depends upon how you choose to define largest.
 
keno
Posts: 1809
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:46 pm

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Fri May 21, 2004 1:46 am

Far East is another name for Asia-Pacific, which consists of both East Asia (China, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, HK) and Southeast Asia (Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar, Indonesia, Philppines, Malaysia, Singapore, Brunei).

I've read an earlier thread if it would be viable for LY or SQ to serve SIN-TLV. There shouldn't be any problem for SQ to do this, but definitely not LY as they would require permission to use Malaysian airspace - something that would be next to impossible to happen since the two countries have neither diplomatic nor trade relations.

[Edited 2004-05-20 18:54:49]
 
bluewhite
Posts: 313
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2001 12:25 pm

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Fri May 21, 2004 1:49 am

Well, they might just be starting freighter flights....cargo loads to/from Israel are apparently good.

BW
 
asbg
Posts: 531
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2000 11:45 pm

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Fri May 21, 2004 1:50 am

Great News!
I can't wait to see the CX aircraft on the highway passing the airport  Big thumbs up

Sam.
 
scottysair
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:07 pm

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Fri May 21, 2004 2:17 am

Yep! I know all about with new nonstop from HKG-TLV very soon and it is competition of LY flight to TLV.
 
shlomoz
Posts: 90
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2000 9:36 pm

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Fri May 21, 2004 2:21 am

how is TLV the place where the business is in the region????

Easy - if I am not mistaken - little Israel is #3 (after the U.S. and Canada) with corporate listings on the NASDAQ. Top-rate player in technology with just about every major hardware and software company having an R&D facility in one of Herziliya, Haifa, Jerusalem - or all 3. As a matter of fact, Intel has 3 huge facilities in Israel wherein the most recent Pentium's were developed (not sure about manufacture). Also - something like 75% of the DSS boxes in the world use Made-in-Israel smartcard and security technology. Then there is Teva which is the #1 generic pharmaceutical manufacturer in the world. I could go on with examples - but I think you get my point.

You aren't going to find anything like this anywhere near Israel. We may not have oil, but we certainly seem to have enough brainpower to be powering a heck of a lot of technology used by a heck of a lot people in everyday life.

So its not surprising at all that Cathay Pacific is considering service to TLV. As it is right now there is a great deal of biz travel to the Far East from TLV, not to mention the leisure biz.
 
Trvlr
Posts: 4251
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2000 9:58 am

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Fri May 21, 2004 2:23 am

Would CX have to fly a circuitous route around the Gulf States to get to Israel, like El Al does? Though the Arab world certainly doesn't have a problem with HK, I doubt they'd be too happy, if asked, with the possibility of any foreign carrier using their airspace to get to Israel.

Aaron G.
 
Carfield
Posts: 2032
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:49 pm

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Fri May 21, 2004 3:32 am

I am sure that CX will try to stop at BKK to get some additional O&D traffic for the Tel Aviv route, if it is possible. Surprisingly, El AL's Tel Aviv service is quite popular... there is always the demand for cargo as well. An Airbus A330 or 340 will be perfect for this route -- long, thinner route.

Let see if this will happen...

Carfield

 
Ex_SQer
Posts: 1351
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2002 5:43 am

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Fri May 21, 2004 3:41 am

I've read an earlier thread if it would be viable for LY or SQ to serve SIN-TLV. There shouldn't be any problem for SQ to do this, but definitely not LY as they would require permission to use Malaysian airspace

SQ has looked at TLV on and off for some time. Any such service would be politically sensitive, of course, hence no ops.

[Edited 2004-05-20 20:42:40]
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Fri May 21, 2004 4:47 am

A CX flight between HKG and TLV would be a success for CX if it was launched, say 3 times weekly with an A343. A connection between SIN and TLV would also be successful. As pointed out above, there is potential business traffic for the route (technology and trade), along with leisure passengers going to and leaving from Israel, plus either CX or SQ could tap into the Israel-Australia market - its not a huge market but it is signficant as many Israelis have family and other connections to Australia - and fares are quite high; many pax backtrack from TLV to Europe to pick up flights to Australia.

I am well aware of world politics and the difficult situation regarding Israel, and a discussion of those issues is not appropriate for this site, but why would either CX or SQ serving Israel be politically sensitive? Just about every European airline has mainline and/or charter flights into Israel, and all of those airlines provide service to Arab and Islamic nations as well, so I do not understand the point.

Regarding security at TLV, yes its tough, it has to be. EL AL has its own standards (which many find uncomfortable, but there is no chioce) but other airlines also impose heightened standards. Even with these higher secuirty standards, BA, LH, CO, AF, and many others successfully serve Israel, as could CX or SQ.
 
Ex_SQer
Posts: 1351
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2002 5:43 am

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Fri May 21, 2004 5:33 am

why would either CX or SQ serving Israel be politically sensitive?

Singapore has a sizeable Muslim population (about 15%) and it is surrounded by two Muslim neighbours (Malaysia and Indonesia). Singapore and Israel have ties, and they are a sore point with the neighbouring states. In fact, a visit in (circa) 1987 by the then Israeli Prime Minister to Singapore drew protests from Malaysia and started a diplomatic row.
 
cx123
Posts: 683
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 8:51 pm

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Fri May 21, 2004 9:13 am

Don't think too many HKG people will like to goto TLV
Agree with AC, the CAbin Crews will definitely have a "FUN" time on that flight.

I guess it will also be a 2 Class aircraft like BOM/DXB/BAH etc.........
 
BA
Posts: 10133
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Fri May 21, 2004 9:27 am

I have heard CX is looking at a number of new destinations in the Middle East. I know they have been looking at serving Beirut, this is according to the Lebanese Transport Minister......

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
jutes85
Posts: 1854
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:50 pm

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Fri May 21, 2004 10:31 am

This site is starting to be more like a dictatorship everyday.
nothing
 
N754PR
Posts: 2909
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 1999 10:03 pm

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Fri May 21, 2004 12:23 pm

Jutes85,

well said, now we will both get deleted  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Bush, your a sad, sad man.
 
AC
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 1:54 am

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Fri May 21, 2004 3:28 pm

...CX is looking at a number of new destinations in the Middle East....

Are Middle East routines really important to CX? Anyone know how is the current performance of CX in Middle East? From its website, only combined SE Asia + Middle East results is released...
I Believe I Can Fly...
 
dab920
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 5:00 am

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Fri May 21, 2004 9:11 pm

As a side note, CX is hoping to launch it's HKG-DXB-IST service this octoer.
 
qm001
Posts: 288
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 2:25 am

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Fri May 21, 2004 9:14 pm

I my opionion, I would suggest that IST or BEY would be a better Business route. Also it would be a lot safer and much easier on CX's neutral Image.

QM 001 (167 Air Malawi)
I wish there was still a flying boat service on the African Lakes!
 
ultrapig
Posts: 568
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 11:38 pm

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Fri May 21, 2004 9:22 pm

N754:

I e-mail me your deleted post-I am a big believer in free speech whether your post was pro-Israel or anti Israel free speech is the best policy. Freedom of the press and Speech itself sets israel apart fromt he rest of the middel east.

Ultrapig
 
CXCPA
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 11:14 pm

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Sat May 22, 2004 12:03 am

I don't think that CX fly to Israel is a good decision. Flying to Israel may increase the operation cost, such insurance and the tighten security measures for the Israel flights. Even EL Al do not operate daily service to HKG, it seems that the demand is not very high.
It may be worth if the political issues in Israel can be solved.
 
avi
Posts: 887
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 1:27 am

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Sat May 22, 2004 12:21 am

While it will be grate to see CX in TLV I simply don’t see it happen in the near future. As I said in the past, I don’t see Israel let CX to fly the short route while El-Al has to make a big detour and I don’t see CX agrees to make the same detour (which add 4 hours to the flight).
However, I can understand why CX is interesting in this route. The load factors on El-Al flights to East Asia are relative high and El-Al makes good money on that routes.

Long live the B747
 
AC
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 1:54 am

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Sat May 22, 2004 12:29 am

..don’t see Israel let CX to fly the short route while El-Al has to make a big detour...

Why? a 4-hour detour seems a long distance...

I Believe I Can Fly...
 
avi
Posts: 887
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 1:27 am

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Sat May 22, 2004 12:42 am

Why? a 4-hour detour seems a long distance...

Exactly. Who will fly with El-Al if the flight will be 4 hours longer? It will be the end of the routes for them.
Israel should keep El-Al interests.
Long live the B747
 
4xRuv
Posts: 379
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 10:05 pm

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Sat May 22, 2004 2:09 am

Avi,
It's not only an Israeli problem, no Arab country will allow a flight with a TLV destination to fly over it's airspace
 
cx773
Posts: 359
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2001 12:46 pm

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Sat May 22, 2004 2:32 am

I dont think CX will fly to TLV in the next few years. SVO is the next new destination for CX.
 
GuyBetsy1
Posts: 807
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 4:00 am

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Sat May 22, 2004 2:48 am

I agree with all the comments above. I don't forsee CX flying this alone. They need to codeshare with EL AL. But as 4xRuv indicated, CX will have to reroute its flight path avoiding all Islamic airspace just to get to TLV. Hence a routing via SIN is impossible as just flying out of SIN airport alone, even before the wheels retract, you're already either in Malaysian or Indonesian airspace.

CX will also have to select certain cabin and tech crews to operate the flights as Malaysians and Indonesians cannot travel to Israel. This would cause too much problems with crew scheduling.

Sure there is a market share... but CX still has to get the traffic rights, and marketing.. even if it is to just tag on its flight number to an EL AL flight which in my opinion will see just that happening instead of using its own metal.
 
OD720
Posts: 1856
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 6:46 am

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Sat May 22, 2004 3:29 am

Avi,

4xRuv is right, CX has to take the same long route to get to TLV. Eastbound flights from Israel are a little problematic.

Btw, has anyone thought of codesharing between El Al and CX. I think that is a more likely scenario. CX had an agreement with ME and flights were to begin last spring but it was dropped because of the SARS outbreak.
 
diesel33
Posts: 298
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:28 am

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Sat May 22, 2004 3:35 am

GuyBetsy1...

Indonesians and Malaysians are allowed into Israel, not vice versa. Granted there is a lot of red tape involved should a citizen of any of those countries enter Israel, but it is allowed.

-diesel33
 
keno
Posts: 1809
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:46 pm

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Sat May 22, 2004 3:42 am

Malaysian citizens are not allowed to enter Israel. Our passport clearly says that "this passport is valid for travel to all countries except Israel" on page 2. Prior to 1994 (apartheid abolishment) we also had South Africa in the list. What that means basically is that even if Israeli immigration somehow allows you to enter their country, then Malaysian government has no obligation to assist you should anything happen to you while in Israel.

[Edited 2004-05-21 20:51:10]
 
AC
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 1:54 am

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Sat May 22, 2004 3:47 pm

it seems CX will face even more difficulties in flying to TLV than flying to Shanghai or Xiamen...
I Believe I Can Fly...
 
amirs
Posts: 1184
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 7:20 am

RE: CX Flying To Israel?

Tue May 25, 2004 10:27 pm

just to clear up some issues ...
1. El Al to HKG does not actually add "too" much to the route, on the average only about 2 - 2.5 hours. Since it flies north to turkey and then staright over CIS and down through China. Its not as big as a detour as when EL Al flies to BKK and BOM.
2. If CX were to fly to Israel, it would actually be the Arab states that would most probably restrict using their airspace for flight destined to TLV, even on a neutral airline.
3. I doubt they would have more than two daily flights.
4. It would probably settled with LY and Cx codesharing.

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