adriaticus
Posts: 989
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:29 pm

Trans-Antarctic Flight Question

Fri May 21, 2004 1:00 pm

I was in a dinner party earlier tonight. A Chilean and an Argentinean folk who were there assured us all the flights between South America (SCL, EZE) and Oceania (MEL, PER, SYD) customarily experience disruption of all navigational electronic systems aboard over long stretches of flight over the Antarctic continent... According to them, the SOP of those flights include flying by gyroscope and radar alone...

Is this remotely true, or were they just pulling us a leg? (This was not aviation fans dinner, Ok?)

So, shoot!

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[Edited 2004-05-21 06:11:18]

[Edited 2004-05-21 06:11:37]
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Arcano
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RE: Trans-Antarctic Flight Question

Fri May 21, 2004 1:26 pm

Hola Adriaticus

No, it's not true. LAN flies over the pacific, I understand they start to cross it at Puerto Montt's latitude, which is funny because Santiago is almost at the same latitude of Sydney (both at 33ºS)

AR promotes their flight to Oceania as "transpolar", but it doesn't fly over the pole. Not sure of they fly over Antartida either, but I think they don't.



You just got some of the so called picardía del Chileno
Saludos )( Arcano
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keno
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RE: Trans-Antarctic Flight Question

Fri May 21, 2004 1:38 pm

Could somebody please plot the ETOPS for these routes? I'm curious to see if there are any dead spots along the route. I know that the plot lines would not be the true representation of the flight route but it's a good approximation. Gracias.
 
Derico
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RE: Trans-Antarctic Flight Question

Fri May 21, 2004 1:38 pm

Yeah, as far as I've been told, there are no problems with the on-board systems on a transpolar flight. What I've always wondered is if on certain flights, if it's sufficiently south, you CAN see Antarctica off your window seat...

The most interesting aspect about those flights is still ETOPS.
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Derico
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RE: Trans-Antarctic Flight Question

Fri May 21, 2004 1:43 pm

Arcano, even if Sydney and Santiago are at the same latitude, routes usually try to follow the great circle routes.
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JGPH1A
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RE: Trans-Antarctic Flight Question

Fri May 21, 2004 6:26 pm

QF's flights to South Africa from SYD and MEL travel quite far south. When I flew MEL-JNB non-stop, we could definitely see large icebergs in the ocean beneath - the flight moved off the moving map completely, and had an indicator "2100 km from South Pole" come up instead - OK 2100km is quite far, but its still pretty south.
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adriaticus
Posts: 989
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:29 pm

RE: Trans-Antarctic Flight Question

Sat May 22, 2004 2:53 pm

Thanks to those who responded to this thread. Arcano, thanks for the map. I printed it out and met with my colleague (a Chilean attorney) again tonight. I explained him the "great circle" stuff... He swore to me his cousin, a captain for LAN Chile, looses navigational equipment every time he flies to Sydney... Maybe the cousin is pulling HIM a leg...

JGPH1A: << the flight moved off the moving map completely, and had an indicator "2100 km from South Pole" come up instead >>

Could this be indicative the aircraft has left an area covered by positioning satellites and is just being tracked in an indirect manner?

I insist: I am clueless. Confused Confused

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Derico
Posts: 4209
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 9:14 am

RE: Trans-Antarctic Flight Question

Sun May 23, 2004 1:34 pm

I have promised myself to travel a 'near south pole' route by 2010... just thinking about the isolation of that flight, in both the sense of so few aircraft in the whole region at one time, and nothing but uninhabited icy oceans below, it fires my imagination.

I'll just need to make some good friends on the other side to cut on my hotel bill...
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123
Posts: 616
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RE: Trans-Antarctic Flight Question

Sun May 23, 2004 1:46 pm

Derico: I flew EZE/CPT and CPT/EZE, the onboard airscreen indicated a nearly perfect straight line, not an Antartic line like I expected. It is unreasonable because great circle saves time.

However, the flights were so short I hardly started to enjoy them, only around 7~8 hours, nearly like a flight to Mia and only about 2/3 to Europe.

So I would guess, that according to wind the flights go "straght" or "polar".
 
gigneil
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RE: Trans-Antarctic Flight Question

Sun May 23, 2004 1:59 pm

Per an above request:



N
 
Derico
Posts: 4209
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RE: Trans-Antarctic Flight Question

Sun May 23, 2004 2:09 pm

Quote by 123 #8

"Derico: I flew EZE/CPT and CPT/EZE, the onboard airscreen indicated a nearly perfect straight line, not an Antartic line like I expected. It is unreasonable because great circle saves time.

However, the flights were so short I hardly started to enjoy them, only around 7~8 hours, nearly like a flight to Mia and only about 2/3 to Europe.

So I would guess, that according to wind the flights go "straght" or "polar"."




Hola 123,

Maybe an EZE-CPT, because it is shorter than an EZE-AKL route, can fly more or less 'straight', specially if the jet stream cooperates I would presume.

But on flights to Oceania I would think that would be undesirable, unless there is some terrible storms southbound or something. I mean, maybe someone else can correct me, but I don't remember hearing about an EZE-AKL flight heading straight west, towards Southern Mendoza... they always head south towards Bariloche or Comodoro Rivadavia.


[Edited 2004-05-23 07:12:19]
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