Pe@rson
Topic Author
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Tokyo To ARN And MAN; NGO & KIX To LHR

Sat May 22, 2004 5:11 pm

Is there a demand for flights between Tokyo and both Stockholm and Manchester? I ask because there's no direct or non-stop flights to either city from the Japanese city. Perhaps an airline could operate twice- or thrice-weekly routing Tokyo-Stockholm-Manchester-Stockholm-Tokyo. What's the likelihood of that occurring? Would the B747-400 be too large an aircraft?

Prior to 11th September, NH routed Osaka (KIX)-Heathrow daily (?), in addition to JL's daily service (which also operated daily and indeed still does). I recall JL routed Nagoya-Heathrow a few times a week, but not daily, using, at one point, the MD-11. There is now no service between Nagoya and Heathrow. Is there any chance at all that a competitor to JL could launch an Osaka-Heathrow service plus reintroduce a Nagoya-Heathrow service?
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boysteve
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RE: Tokyo To ARN And MAN; NGO & KIX To LHR

Sat May 22, 2004 6:26 pm

With direct flights from MAN to both SIN and KUL then I'm sure that there would be demand for direct flights MAN to Japan (and HKG too). I would doubt that a 747 could be filled, great circle says MAN-NRT is 5901 miles so I guess for smaller aircraft you'd be looking for an A330-200 or a B767ER (just)
 
nethkt
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RE: Tokyo To ARN And MAN; NGO & KIX To LHR

Sat May 22, 2004 6:47 pm

MAN-KUL is a leisure route for toursits, there are enough demand,
MAN-SIN is a connecting route for the English to Southest Asia and Australia. So plenty of demand on this route.

I don't think there are enough demand for business men from MAN to NRT neither enough demand from tourists.

NRT to ARN? Fly SAS to copenhagen then connect!!!

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FinnWings
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RE: Tokyo To ARN And MAN; NGO & KIX To LHR

Sat May 22, 2004 6:59 pm

There could be market for ARN-KIX/NRT flights, but B747 is definitely too large aircraft for that route. In case the flight stops first at ARN and continue then to MAN I can't see any point as a commercial point of view. In that case airline should have rights to sell seats for that intra-european leg as well or otherwise it would be flown half empty. It isn't easy to get those rights as many European airlines have found on intra-Asian routes as well.

Besides, Finnair flies at the moment from Helsinki 5 times weekly to Osaka and 2 times weekly to Tokyo so competition between ARN and HEL would be tough. Helsinki is one of the strongest gateways from Europe to Asia and Swedes are used to transfer at HEL with very small transfer time. There are also daily SK flights from CPH to Japan.

It could be too big challenge to make direct route from ARN to Japan profitable...

Regards,
FinnWings
 
BestWestern
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RE: Tokyo To ARN And MAN; NGO & KIX To LHR

Sat May 22, 2004 7:06 pm

Osaka airport charges were raised so high that it made many European routes unprofitable. If I am not mistaken the domestic flights arrive at a separate terminal, resulting in reduced interline opportunities.

JAL at one stage looked at a NRT MAN daily service that would continue to DUB x4 weekly using fifth freedom opportunities. Their 747's were too large for the route, but the growing 777 operation may be perfect.



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keno
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RE: Tokyo To ARN And MAN; NGO & KIX To LHR

Sat May 22, 2004 7:44 pm

My copy of SAS's inflight magazine shows that there were non-stop services from both ARN & CPH to both NRT & KIX back in 1995. Not sure when these services were cancelled.

Besides for the convenience of British tourists holidaying in Malaysia and as a connection to Australia, MAN-KUL flight also caters for the thousands of Malaysian students studying in the north of UK (Malaysians form the largest group of foreign students in the UK), although the latter market is largely a seasonal one. I believe a non-stop service from GLA or DUB to KUL & SIN would also do well for these reasons. Something that cannot be compared to flights between MAN and Japan.

[Edited 2004-05-22 12:51:39]
 
transswede
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RE: Tokyo To ARN And MAN; NGO & KIX To LHR

Sun May 23, 2004 12:29 am

There's a rumor on another forum that SAS might aquire another A340 and use it mostly for reopening the ARN-NRT service...
 
BH346
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RE: Tokyo To ARN And MAN; NGO & KIX To LHR

Sun May 23, 2004 12:47 am

All flights in and out of Osaka/Kansai use the same terminal. It's generally a very easy airport to use if you're connecting within Japan. I thought I heard that a second terminal was going to be a part of the second phase expansion but it doesn't really make a lot of sense and I haven't heard anything about it lately.

Kansai lost a lot of European traffic but lately I think they lowered the landing fees and offer incentives for new flights there which helped KIX get new flights to Malaysia, China, and Chicago. It would be nice to see British Airways back in Osaka. As for Nagoya, we may see expansion when the new airport opens. I think there are some new Asian routes set to begin but they're waiting on the new airpor to be completed. The landing fees and the cost to use the new Central Japan Airport is supposed to be much more competitive than Kansai.
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pera
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RE: Tokyo To ARN And MAN; NGO & KIX To LHR

Sun May 23, 2004 12:51 am

I agree with u Finnwings, many swedes is going via HEL to Asian destinations, it's cheaper better and easier and u r also going in the right way, instead of connecting via CPH (Stockholm is closer to Asia). I dont think there is demand for ARN-NRT in todays situation, maybe if SAS splitted up their CPH-NRT service to 4x times a week and then fly 3x a week from Arlanda. It's not impossible that SAS will retake ARN-Tokyo in a couple of years but I think ARN-PEK is a more important route for SAS than Tokyo is, because Air China is already flying this route very sucessfull.
 
pera
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RE: Tokyo To ARN And MAN; NGO & KIX To LHR

Sun May 23, 2004 12:53 am

It's not impossible that SAS is starting up the old Osaka route from CPH again=). But maybe it's to late now, Finnair already flies the route and they are a very big concurrent to SAS.
 
FinnWings
Posts: 633
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 6:03 am

RE: Tokyo To ARN And MAN; NGO & KIX To LHR

Sun May 23, 2004 4:23 am

Pera,

I would like to see SK having more long-haul routes from ARN as well and I'm very sure things will change when splitting of SAS is completed and economical situation improved even it might take quite a long time.

You are also right that AY is cheap option for foreigners, but for Finns their Asia flights are extremely expensive. They are keen to have more transfer traffic and therefore prices are higher for Finns. Of course the lack of capacity plays important part too...

Regards,
FinnWings
 
Pe@rson
Topic Author
Posts: 16001
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: Tokyo To ARN And MAN; NGO & KIX To LHR

Sun May 23, 2004 4:11 pm

What about a Tokyo-Beijing-Manchester service? This would, in my view, only be possible if an airline gained rights to carry both passengers and cargo on the Beijing-Manchester leg. I am not sure how likely this would be.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
rutankrd
Posts: 2564
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RE: Tokyo To ARN And MAN; NGO & KIX To LHR

Mon May 24, 2004 2:48 am

How about Manchester-Hamburg-Tokyo with BMI 330 and collecting code share parent (LH) passengers en-route.
Think it would work 3/4 times a week especially with both cities having extensive Japanese companies within their catchment area for those lucrative mid plane customers.
Cargo would also be very important and may even be profitable on its own.

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