Topic Author
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Joined: Mon Aug 30, 1999 10:26 pm

Virgin Atlantic In Singapore?

Thu Feb 10, 2000 6:38 pm

When Virgin Atlantic will fly to Singapore?

Probably Never!

Thu Feb 10, 2000 11:59 pm

Virgin did want to fly to Singapore, but since Singapore Airlines now owns half of the airline it's not that likely that Virgin will operate flighs in competition with them.

More likely to see codeshares on the MAN/LHR-SIN routes operated by SIA, probably continuing on to Oz/NZ replacing the agreement with Malaysian that Virgin has.

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Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 7:40 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic In Singapore?

Fri Feb 11, 2000 7:38 am

Virgin's tie-up with Malaysian went sour quite a few years ago actually, but the two carriers sign a contract for a minimum of 10 years - so they battle on as an unlikely pair.

Virgin is unhappy that the UK CAA and Oz govt have not given it a full license to operate into Oz - this was promised if it code-shared with another carrier for at least 10 years into Oz...(which it has).

MAS is also peeved because it wants more flights into LHR and possibly LGW as demand on the KUL-LHR route is always heavy...again on the condition that they code-shared with a UK carrier (that was in the early 1990s).

Commercially they don't really get on well - their service is quite different and that is quite evident (having flown LHR-KUL return several times with 'Virgin'). I'm not saying either is better - just 'different'.

Virgin Atlantic has done badly with the Malaysian customer - VS promised its own direct flights LHR-KUL but its now the 21st century and Kuala Lumpur awaits for a Virgin aircraft to touch down. Many Malaysian travellers have in fact now given up waiting to Richard (Branson) and 'defected' over to British Airways for direct competition with MAS.

As far as I'm concerned - the sooner VS goes over to SQ and MH ties-up with KLM the better for all concerned. It makes much more sense altogether...don't you agree?

RE: Virgin Atlantic In Singapore?

Fri Feb 11, 2000 8:29 am

You may or may not know this but next on the cards for Virgin is Las Vegas, then Dehli. They are confermed. It would not suprise me if they try harder to get into Australia now, becuase the are setting up the regional airline in Australia. That should prove interesting. I remember that Virgin wanted to do the same in the US, but the US would not allow it because of the over seas ownership. A shame really. It would interesting how the Virgin style of service came across to America and see how it was able to compete. I am young, maybe I will see it one day! Good luck to Virgin Atlantic either way. If anyone knows were Virgin will be getting the new planes for all these routes I would be interested. They are getting two more 747 200's from Air New Zealand, but is that enough for an already stretched fleet?
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Fri Feb 11, 2000 9:19 am

I have been asking the same question. The recently retired their 747-100 though. Supposedly they were going to look for 2 more 747-200s this year but with the new SIA deal most likely they will get A340s or 747-400s. If not then possibly Qantas's 2 747-200s that are most likely going to be put up.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
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RE: Virgin Atlantic In Singapore?

Fri Feb 11, 2000 4:11 pm

Whilst Virgin is setting up in Australia, they are setting up a discount carrier like their Brussels based subsidiary Virgin Express. They are not setting up a full service carrier like Virgin Atlantic. For example the 733s will all be configured in a charter layout (ie no legroom), some of their terminals will be in demountables, they will have no business lounges and they are only operating between 3 or 4 Australian ports.

It is unlikely that SQ will want to transfer their high paying premium customers onto a service like this and will probably prefer to keep the current arrangement they have with Ansett. All SQ flights between SIN and Australia are already AN codeshares.

717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR

RE: Virgin Atlantic In Singapore?

Fri Feb 11, 2000 7:03 pm

There have been several questions asked, so here I try to give some answers that I think are correct:

1. Will Virgin try harder to get into Australia
Answer: No. Quite the opposite. Virgin Australia has the declared aim to meet Virgin Atlantic's other Asian routes. This is not actually contradictory in terms of service: Virgin Atlantic operates on long-haul routes (except the Athens destination all flights are long-haul) at a high service, and service and comfort only matter on long flights, whereas Virgin Australia will be cheap short-haul, i.e. two hours of suffering are generalle acceptable.

2. Fleet Expansion
As far as I know, Virgin is one of the launching customers of the A340-500 (I hope I got the number 500 right). The fleet will expand radically over the next two years or so.

3. Singapore
As far as I know, Singapore is not on the immediate list of desired destinations (Two new India destinations and expansion to a daily service are more important, I believe), but Virgin Atlantic wants to connect to Singapore Airline's network.

I hope all this information is correct, and I hope it answers some of the questions. To be honest, what I would really like to see as the ultimate stage is a network of long-haul high-service airlines like Virgin Atlantic (and maybe a Virgin Pacific?) plus loads of smaller, low-cost no-frills suppliers like Virgin Express, Virgin Australia and maybe one day Virgin US. Right now, they are different companies and independent, but that should change.

By the way, one question I would like to ask: Of all those no-frills low-cost carriers in Europe (especially UK) like Virgin Express, Go, Easyjet, Buzz and so on, does any make profits?

RE: A Student

Fri Feb 11, 2000 11:21 pm

You wanted to know about low fare airline profits.

Ryanair are very profitable, making £50millon in the last year, but they are the most established low fare airline in Europe

easyJet made their first profit last year of £2.3 million, remember this airline is very well financed and has high initial costs of it's new 737s plus it's only in it's third year

Go made a loss last year but are in a similar situation to easyJet 2 years ago, with startup costs etc. Go only launched in mid-1998

Buzz only been flying 5 weeks so you'll have to wait! Parent KLMuk profitable.

Virgin Express not sure about this one, but VEX also run a lot of holiday charter flights so it's profit/loss figures don't just reflect it's low fare ops.

Hop that was of help;
most of the info taken from websites

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VS With A340-600.

Sat Feb 12, 2000 2:02 am

They have ordered 10 A340-600s with 8 A340-600 options. From what I get though they will only replace the 747-200s. With expansion though more aircraft are going to be needed. Also by the time the a340-600s begin arriving the A340-300s and 747-400s delivered in the early 90s will be getting Virgin old.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower

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