airxliban
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 12:14 pm

Qantas From AKL

Mon May 24, 2004 3:56 am

It looks like Qantas flies to LAX from Auckland...

Isn't this a bit funny...why would the New Zealand government allow QF to fly this route in direct competition with Air New Zealand?

This might sound like a dumb question and it might well be a dumb question. What i mean to say is that is there any reason beyond "Qantas applied and got rights to fly this route" as to why a non-NZ and non-US carrier is flying this route in addition to Air NZ.

[Edited 2004-05-23 21:17:48]
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
StarFlyer
Posts: 929
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2002 10:07 am

RE: Qantas From AKL

Mon May 24, 2004 4:56 am

New Zealand and Australia have an open skies agreement. In the past Air New Zealand has served SYD-LAX in return. This route has been dropped after 9/11, but the agreement remains.

On a related note, New Zealand as an open skies agreement with UAE, hence Emirates would be able to theoretically serve routes between the US and NZ as well!

All this is a result of the liberal policies NZ has applied since the late 1980s in many sectors, including airlines.
Yours truly - StarFlyer
 
Al
Posts: 584
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 1999 10:28 pm

RE: Qantas From AKL

Mon May 24, 2004 5:09 am

Any designated Oz carrier has had access to beyond rights, routes and traffic from N.Z. since late '94, as did any N.Z. carrier have the same access beyond Oz. There was a limit on the number of operations per week each country could have from the other country until Nov 2000, when both countries signed an agreement to drop all beyond restrictions for carriers of both countries.
At one stage NZ had a decent sized Asian route mini-hub operating in BNE, but this didn't last too long and apart from the on again/off again SYD-LAX route, NZ hasn't tried to capitalise on the agreement, either pre or post AN, whereas QF are making use of the agreement as you found out.
Cheers.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Qantas From AKL

Mon May 24, 2004 5:10 am

I believe NZ actually has completely open skies, not just with those countries.

I may be incorrect.

N
 
airxliban
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 12:14 pm

RE: Qantas From AKL

Mon May 24, 2004 6:03 am

thats the answer i was looking for, thank you gentlemen.

if NZ has completely open skies, might there be a market for other US carriers to come down that way? Has UA pulled out of this market?

Fares on the LAX-AA), New Zealand">AKL route are pretty expensive...not sure if that is just because they need to be or because Air NZ and UA know that they can charge that much.

Air NZ is running a promotion right now...865 to Auckland from Los Angeles...otherwise it looks like its about 1500.

Is there room for another airline other than QF and NZ? (Are there other airlines other than these two even? Damn amadeus is down...).

If AA were to open up such a route, could the 777s fly them or would they have to use an inefficient routing?
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
NZ767
Posts: 1553
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 9:17 am

RE: Qantas From AKL

Mon May 24, 2004 7:15 am

Hi Airxliban,

United pulled out of New Zealand over a year ago although they still operate codeshare with NZ.

I AA wanted to serve NZ, they certainly could use B777's as UA did, albeit with ETOPS restrictions.
AA however, codeshare on LAX-AA), New Zealand">AKL with QF under the Oneworld Alliance.  Smile
 
aussie747
Posts: 1005
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:15 pm

RE: Qantas From AKL

Mon May 24, 2004 8:35 am

I guess the same could be said when NZ pulled out of the SYD-LAX route early last year. THe above posts answer my question further.
 
NZ767
Posts: 1553
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 9:17 am

RE: Qantas From AKL

Mon May 24, 2004 9:19 am

Geez, I don't know what I was smoking when I posted that, but before someone points it out (as they're bound to), my last sentence should have read:

"AA however, codeshare on Los Angeles-Auckland with QF under the Oneworld Alliance."  Smile
 
Motorhussy
Posts: 3219
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:49 am

RE: Qantas From AKL

Mon May 24, 2004 8:20 pm

Gigneil

I believe NZ actually has completely open skies, not just with those countries.

I may be incorrect.


Yes you are, incorrect that is.

New Zealand has reciprocal open sky agreements with a few nations, including Singapore, UAE & Australia. Airlines from these nations are allowed, by the New Zealand government, beyond rights as well, but often not from any other governments.

Regards
MH
come visit the south pacific
 
Gemuser
Posts: 4297
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

RE: Qantas From AKL

Mon May 24, 2004 8:35 pm

Airxliban (reply 4)

ANY US airline that wants to operate to OZ/NZ can do so. It just has to get US DOT approval & FAA operational clearance. US State dept then notifies the other government of the details,which then has to approve the flights. If they are within the parameters of the current bilateral treaty this approval is a formality and will be quickly issued. If the proposal is outside the current bilateral then negotiations must take place, this can delay things, but not for long in the current climate.

So why are there not at least two US carriers to OZ (HA doesn't count(yet)) and none to NZ?
Because they don't believe that they can make money on the route OR (& more likely) they believe they can make more elsewhere. I have said it before and I'll say it again, the US - SW Pacific is a difficult route to operate, its long, its thin and it has compertision that will fight you to the death because they have no where else to go!

What ever happens, on the US-SW Pacific route - 2nd last carrier standing = QF. Last carrier standing = NZ.

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