wolkenridder
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 11:44 pm

British Airways And Latin America

Mon May 24, 2004 4:24 am

Hi mates!!!

As a British Airways fan who travels quite often from Europe to Mexico, I was wondering which are BA's future plans for Latin America. Do you guys know whether BA has any expansion plans in the Latin American sub-continent? As we all know, Iberia is the main European carrier focused in Latin America, while BA is the one specialised in North America, but despite of this, and even if they are in the same alliance (One World), I think there is still enough possibilities for BA to expand their LatAm services/routes.

I have some questions like:

A) Do you know whether they will permanently have 5 weekly 744 nonstops to MEX (i.s.o. 3 weekly) as from next summer, or will that be only seasonal? Do you guys think there are possibilities to have permanent daily LHR-MEX-LHR in a near future?

B) Do you know if they will ever resume the 777 non-stops Gatwick-Cancun?
(before September 11, they had a 2x weekly 777 service on that route)

C) Are they still flying non-stop to CCS and BOG with 777s?

D) What's about their plans for EZE, GIG and GRU? Do they fly to SCL?

Actually, if someone here can give us some brief info on whole current BA operations in LatAm and Caribbean, I would be very thankful, since honestly I don't really have too much info about this.

Thanx for your help!
Víctor.



Can't wait to see the New Barajas ready
 
Argentina
Posts: 325
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2000 12:05 am

RE: British Airways And Latin America

Mon May 24, 2004 5:17 am

BA is flying LHR-GRU-EZE 4 times a week, and LHR-GRU-GIG 3 times a week, with B777. This year they are changing to B747-400 to offer more seats. SCL is not served directly. Only codeshares with LA from EZE.
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2302
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: British Airways And Latin America

Mon May 24, 2004 5:31 am


BA downgraded their service from London to BOG and CCS several months ago, from a 777 to a 767. Although the service is now operated from LHR and not from LGW, 3 times a week.

Apparently BA is upgrading their LHR-CCS-BOG service to a 777 again for the summer season, not sure though.


Additionally, BA flyes to Nassau and Grand Cayman with 767s from LHR, and to several other destinations in the antilles on 777s from Gatwick.


SOUTHAMERICA
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2302
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: British Airways And Latin America

Mon May 24, 2004 5:48 am

Indeed, I just confirmed with http://www.ba.com/, and from October 3 the LHR-CCS-BOG-CCS-LHR will be upgraded from a 763 to a 772; though with the same frequency (3 weekly flights).


SOUTHAMERICA
 
ACES320
Posts: 292
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 9:50 am

RE: British Airways And Latin America

Mon May 24, 2004 6:04 am

South America
Could you provide a more precise link to that information?
I was trying to retrieve some result from the BA site but was unsuccessful.

If this upgrade comes across in the future it would be great for this route as I fly it several times a year, however the 767 it's so cramped most of the time.
A lot of people choose traveling to London via Madrid or Paris from Colombia. I wonder way BA keeps this very low weekly frequency from BOG, may be slots at Heathrow?. Moreover, crew themselves some times regard the stop-over in CCS as unnecessary not technically of course, but because very low traffic yields some times.

Anybody here knows how long has been this route been operated? As far as I know it was 747 until 1998, then 777 and finally downgraded to 763 in 2003.

As a BA fan I would love flying BA's 777 back to my country.


LHR, BHX, EDI, BKK, USM, CNX, PHU, GRU,PEI, BOG, CTG, CPH, AMS, DOH, DXB, FRA, MAD and always PEI
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6241
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: British Airways And Latin America

Mon May 24, 2004 7:07 am

Víctor, how are you doing man?

I understand that there is a maximum number of flights per week to MEX that BA can do under the current bilateral. I assume that number is 5. What I have read in a.net is that BA will not be able to increase its number of flights to MEX unless and until a Mexican carrier starts flying a certain number of regularly scheduled weekly flights to the U.K. (I am not sure if they have to be to anywhere in the U.K., to any of the London airports or only to LHR). Hopefully an a.net member who is more familiarized with this issue can let us know what exactly the deal is.

With respect to the 5 weekly flights, I have not read or heard any indication of whether the increased frequency will be only seasonal or permanent... I hope it is permanent.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
wolkenridder
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 11:44 pm

RE: British Airways And Latin America

Mon May 24, 2004 7:59 am

Hola Eduardo!! How was the weekend in Mexico City?
Over here still with the hang over of the royal wedding!!!

Let's hope those 5 x weekly LHR-MEX-LHR will be all along the year and not only during summertime. Would love to know that this (BA 744 in MEX):


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Photo © Ricardo Morales Aviation Photography of Mexico



happens five times a week!!! Any news on British Airways to CUN??? It would be awesome to be able to fly in a BA 777 to the Mexican Caribbean again!!!

BTW: are they still serving HAV with 777s from GTW?


[Edited 2004-05-24 01:01:06]
Can't wait to see the New Barajas ready
 
kzba
Posts: 115
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 12:27 pm

RE: British Airways And Latin America

Mon May 24, 2004 8:25 am

Who said that LHR/GRU/EZE and GIG would be changed to a 744? I don't think this information is correct. The 777 is well suited to these routes.
 
nickofatlanta
Posts: 1272
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 1:06 am

RE: British Airways And Latin America

Mon May 24, 2004 9:30 am

KZBA -
A quick look at the timetable section of the BA web-site indicates that Wolkenridder is indeed correct. 744s will be used on the route from approx November onwards - did not have time to try to figure out the exact date of the changeover.
 
kzba
Posts: 115
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 12:27 pm

RE: British Airways And Latin America

Mon May 24, 2004 12:01 pm

We just had a equipment overview meeting on 11 May, and it was discussed that GRU/EZE/GIG would remain 777s. The timetable does not reflect this change.
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2302
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: British Airways And Latin America

Mon May 24, 2004 12:56 pm

ACES320,


http://www.britishairways.com/flightTimetable.servlet


Follow this link which will allow you to browse through BA's schedules for all the year. Fill the boxes with the BOG and LHR, and select October 3 as the departure date.


SOUTHAMERICA
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: British Airways And Latin America

Mon May 24, 2004 1:39 pm

With regard to the GRU/EZE/GIG flights, I am pretty sure that, as the Argentine economy further recovers, BA will as some point reinstate non-stop flights to Buenos Aires.

In the 90s, BA operated up to 6 weekly non-stop B744 flights LGW-EZE (the whole South American operation was at that point located at Gatwick). These flights continued to SCL. The operation was then scaled back with SCL being closed and the EZE operation becoming thrice weekly non-stop with B772 before eventually being tagged onto the GRU flight.

However, the Argentine economy has been showing signs of recovery lately, and airlines have been following this move: AR is currently at its healthiest level in years, and Lufthansa has reinstated non-stop EZE (now with A346) flights after operating EZE as a tag to its Brazilian operation for just one season in 2003.

I am assuming that BA will eventually follow suit and reinstate a non-stop EZE link. It's kind of hard to maintain London without a non-stop link to a major South American capital like Buenos Aires.

 
Arcano
Posts: 2299
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:34 am

RE: British Airways And Latin America

Mon May 24, 2004 1:39 pm

BA did serve directly SCL with 744s. They haven't for about two years, specially with LA also in OW.
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
planenutz
Posts: 1156
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 1999 5:50 am

RE: British Airways And Latin America

Mon May 24, 2004 2:22 pm

Maybe someone could confirm something for me. I had heard (or read) that all of BA's Latin American operations are not coordinated out of London, but out of Miami.

All hiring of staff (including FA's), contracts, ops, and reservations call centre for Latin America is done at Miami. Anyone know if this is true?
Not all who wander are lost....
 
ACES320
Posts: 292
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 9:50 am

RE: British Airways And Latin America

Mon May 24, 2004 8:14 pm

Thanks SouthAmerica.

Any of you knows how back in the time can be traced BA's operations in Latin America?

LHR, BHX, EDI, BKK, USM, CNX, PHU, GRU,PEI, BOG, CTG, CPH, AMS, DOH, DXB, FRA, MAD and always PEI
 
ussherd
Posts: 322
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 8:01 am

RE: British Airways And Latin America

Mon May 24, 2004 9:00 pm

Anybody here knows how long the LON-CCS-BOG route has been operated? As far as I know it was 747 until 1998, then 777 and finally downgraded to 763 in 2003.

British Caledonian operated LGW-CCS during the late 70's and early 80's, before BA took over the route. Initially, BA flew to CCS and BOG via the Caribbean islands (LHR-UVF-CCS and LHR-POS-CCS-BOG) using the 747 classic. From the early 90's the flight operated LGW-CCS-BOG using the 744, then the 777 and for the last few years using the 763. Unfortunately, I don't have exact dates... this is just from memory, being in and around CCS airport. I don't remember BA ever operating more than 3 weekly flight to CCS.
Cada loco con su tema...
 
latinaviation
Posts: 1162
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:25 pm

RE: British Airways And Latin America

Mon May 24, 2004 9:06 pm

Maybe someone could confirm something for me. I had heard (or read) that all of BA's Latin American operations are not coordinated out of London, but out of Miami.

All hiring of staff (including FA's), contracts, ops, and reservations call centre for Latin America is done at Miami. Anyone know if this is true?


Yes, it is (or was) true, back when I lived in Miami in the '90s and did work in the region. I don't know about the call centre, I though those were local. But most, if not all, procurement sourcing, marketing, sales, etc., was out of Miami.

Does anyone know how many F/A's BA has based in LA and what routes they fly?
 
wolkenridder
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 11:44 pm

RE: British Airways And Latin America

Mon May 24, 2004 9:20 pm

ACES320,

Good Point!!! Hopefully someone can help us with the complete history of BA in LatAm.

I only know BA was flying to MEX in the 70s and early 80s using 707s (see pic below of BA's 707 taxiing at MEX in the early 80s) and Tri Stars, I think they were doing LHR-MSY-MEX. They left MEX in 1982 if I am not mistaking and then they came back in March 1993 with three weekly B747-400 non-stops LHR-MEX.

More infos are welcome!!!!
Look at this beautyful BA 707 taxiing in Benito Juarez Int'l (MEX) in 1980:


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © EPM-LGN - Aviation Photography of Mexico

Can't wait to see the New Barajas ready
 
ACES320
Posts: 292
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 9:50 am

RE: British Airways And Latin America

Mon May 24, 2004 10:02 pm

As a global company, BA deploys resources all around the world. Saying that BA's staff are based in LA it's a bit narrow. Last time I traveled with them during this endless stopover in CCS to Bogotá BOG I met a Spaniard F/A who just boarded the Aircraft in LHR to attend the flight to CCS after she arrived from a flight 2 days before from Delhi to LHR. In the very same flight last December one of the crew members was Indian and was part of the Concorde's crew and flew regularly LHR - JFK.
LatinAviation, Just to give you and idea, we had one Colombian F/A 2 Venezuelan F/A, the Spaniard, The Indian and 4 British in Ecomomy. As for the local crew, they mainly cover the BOG-CCS leg because this flight uses 3 different staff. LHR -CCS, then a new shift from CCS-BOG-CCS and finally a new crew back CCS-LHR.

Wolkenrinder about history of operations , I tracked back to 1948 Airfrance operating CCS and BOG via Antilles and Azores. Also tracked Iberia back to the 1960's, however found nothing about BA. Please give me a hand.


LHR, BHX, EDI, BKK, USM, CNX, PHU, GRU,PEI, BOG, CTG, CPH, AMS, DOH, DXB, FRA, MAD and always PEI
 
Varghel
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2001 3:58 am

RE: British Airways And Latin America

Mon May 24, 2004 10:06 pm

If I well remember between 1998 and 2000, British Airways used to fly 4 times per week from London LHR to Caracas and Bogotaà, before flights frequencies were reduced and taken to Gatwick..

Varghel
Varghel
 
ACES320
Posts: 292
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 9:50 am

RE: British Airways And Latin America

Mon May 24, 2004 10:12 pm

Varghel, that's may be when BA's and all Europeans airlines, but Iberia, decided focusing on Asia. They took airplanes and capacity off LA and placed it in Asia. So far focusing in LA gave better results for IB the only European profitable carrier after 9/11.

LHR, BHX, EDI, BKK, USM, CNX, PHU, GRU,PEI, BOG, CTG, CPH, AMS, DOH, DXB, FRA, MAD and always PEI
 
fraspotter
Posts: 1974
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 8:12 pm

RE: British Airways And Latin America

Mon May 24, 2004 11:36 pm

I would sure like to see BA have service. But I'm not sure if they need to since BA and LAN Chile are all part of One World along with AA which flies to Chile, Brazil, Argintina, Honduras, Mexico, Equador etc... All they do is code share.
"Taking off is optional. It’s landing that’s mandatory."
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2302
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: British Airways And Latin America

Tue May 25, 2004 12:02 am

BA's operations in the mid and late-90s when using th 744s to BOG and CCS were split. Well, I perfectly recall several close people flying BOG-LHR-BOG nonstop a couple of times, without the stop in Caracas.


SOUTHAMERICA
 
Lan_Fanatic
Posts: 1056
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2001 11:41 am

RE: British Airways And Latin America

Tue May 25, 2004 12:22 am

I remember back in 1994 BA inaugurated the service to Santiago via Sao Paulo, with a 744. I think they were 3 weekly flights. Then some years later I think the service was switched to Gatwick, and the flight was via Buenos Aires, and if somebody could correct me, I'm almost sure that during some time there were 6 weekly frequencies between SCL and LHR/LGW. Then, all of a sudden, in the year 2000, there was no more BA in SCL.

I really miss them.
 
ACES320
Posts: 292
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 9:50 am

RE: British Airways And Latin America

Tue May 25, 2004 12:51 am

Lan_Fanatic.
The same again. At the end of 1990's European carriers literally abandoned Latin America. BA forsook SCL, Lufthansa cut off BOG and KLM ran away of the region. Other facts, BA downgraded BOG from 747 to 777 and finally to 767 with stopover in CCS, Airfrance downgraded CCS to A330 and BA stopped direct services to Rio and Sao Paolo to set up a stopover segregate route.

FRASppoter. The fact that an airline belongs to an alliance doesn't entail it to surrender routes to its competitors. A lot of people travel to London from BOG via MAD. As far as I know IB's earnings in this route are not shared with BA. I cannot see your point on it. On the other hand, traveling to Europe via Miami AA it falls short to be a nightmare for Latin Americans. The process of getting a Visa and then all these security issues in American Territory simply deter people of travelling via US. That's way trying to find a seat in BA's flights from Latin America it's impossible sometimes.


LHR, BHX, EDI, BKK, USM, CNX, PHU, GRU,PEI, BOG, CTG, CPH, AMS, DOH, DXB, FRA, MAD and always PEI
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2302
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: British Airways And Latin America

Tue May 25, 2004 3:45 am

KLM ran away of the region

Well they still kept the service to CCS, LIM and several islands in the Caribbean. But to add to your post, AF also downgraded BOG from 742/3 to A340s. Swiss recently cut thier service to EZE from ZHR via GRU, although kept the GRU flight.


SOUTHAMERICA
 
ACES320
Posts: 292
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 9:50 am

RE: British Airways And Latin America

Tue May 25, 2004 6:16 am

SouthAmerica, That's right. KLM is still present in CCS and LIM.
Just comes to my mind Alitalia, they used to fly to Quito and Bogotá, however only kept a 767 flying to CCS.



LHR, BHX, EDI, BKK, USM, CNX, PHU, GRU,PEI, BOG, CTG, CPH, AMS, DOH, DXB, FRA, MAD and always PEI
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2302
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: British Airways And Latin America

Tue May 25, 2004 10:50 am


ACES320,

And not only that, but our own national airline ran away from Europe too, cutting AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA, CDG and LHR in only a couple of years.

Anyway, I surely hope that this horizon changes. BA is now upgrading the service again, hopefully year-round. IB brought their A346 in January during a week or two, and I hope they repeat it; and so on...


SOUTHAMERICA
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24599
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: British Airways And Latin America

Tue May 25, 2004 11:10 am

SouthAmerica, That's right. KLM is still present in CCS and LIM.
Just comes to my mind Alitalia, they used to fly to Quito and Bogotá, however only kept a 767 flying to CCS.


KLM still flies to Quito daily, along with Guayquil. They are ending Caracas service this summer, however.
a.
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6241
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: British Airways And Latin America

Wed May 26, 2004 1:37 pm

Don't forget KL's presence in Mexico with the 747Combi.

By the way Mark, you are a really impressive source of data and information about all things aviation. Do you by any chance know what the deal is with the bilateral and BA not being able to fly more than a certain number of weekly flights to MEX unless and until a Mexican carrier starts flying to the U.K.? (please see my reply 5). Thanks.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
DoorsToManual
Posts: 1453
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 12:28 am

RE: British Airways And Latin America

Wed May 26, 2004 4:44 pm

BA used to be our airline of choice to Argentina, simply because they were consistently reliable, reasonably priced and more importantly, non-stop.

Since the stop in GRU was introduced, and prices were somewhat increased, BA has now become one of the most expensive carriers from Europe! It would be great to use them again.

Since then, we've used Air France (good), Swiss (terrible), Iberia (terrible) and Lufthansa (very good). All of them offer cheaper fares (ok, I know why), so it would be nice to see BA flying direct, and offering more competitive fares. I liked the fact that BA made an effort to put Argentine FAs on these flights, they were almost always much nicer to talk.  Big grin

regards


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