United Airline
Topic Author
Posts: 8790
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

When And Why Did SQ Quit YYZ?

Mon May 24, 2004 5:30 pm

When and why? Any plans to resume service??? Where did it go through?
 
747400F
Posts: 464
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:36 am

RE: When And Why Did SQ Quit YYZ?

Mon May 24, 2004 5:34 pm

I might be wrong but were SQ ever online in YYZ with own metal
I remember them having a service via CPH and LHR with codeshare on AC.
Fom CPH it stopped when AC decided to drop CPH as a destination - the combination may still exist via LHR.
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AXESS
Posts: 64
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:32 am

RE: When And Why Did SQ Quit YYZ?

Mon May 24, 2004 5:35 pm

Very short lived.
I think it was SIN-somewhere-AMS-YYZ.
Stopped flying just before their start of New York SVC.

Remember that at the similar period, AC had YYZ-BOM-SIN by 747 I think 3 times a week, and they also stopped flying this route...
 
Ejazz
Posts: 689
Joined: Wed May 22, 2002 10:26 am

RE: When And Why Did SQ Quit YYZ?

Mon May 24, 2004 6:54 pm

Service operated SIN-VIE-AMS-YYZ and return. I managed quite a few during the winter season since most avoided the flight because of the cold. Air Canada flew to Singapore via London and Bombay and were not happy about SQs presence on the route. Our arriving and departing YYZ flights were continually plagued by problems almost akin to sabotage and eventually the route was cancelled, I'm guessing around 1992.

I'm not laying blame at the foot of AC but the whole affair left a nasty taste. I can't remember the exact details of why but I do recall SQ had to take out full page newspaper ads to keep its Vancouver flights and explain its withdraw from YYZ.

Maybe someone with a better memory can be more specific. I just remember the wonderful Hotel, people, bars, food and yes the weather.
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asianguy767
Posts: 247
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 11:17 pm

RE: When And Why Did SQ Quit YYZ?

Mon May 24, 2004 9:28 pm

AC did protest SQ flying AMS-YYZ. SQ had only 2x B744 flts while AC had a daily on a B767.
 
United Airline
Topic Author
Posts: 8790
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

RE: When And Why Did SQ Quit YYZ?

Tue May 25, 2004 12:31 am

Any chance that YYZ might come back? Also LAS, ORD?
 
Ex_SQer
Posts: 1351
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2002 5:43 am

RE: When And Why Did SQ Quit YYZ?

Tue May 25, 2004 1:30 pm

Maybe someone with a better memory can be more specific.

I guess that would be me. This is a long and complicated story, and I will try my best to be as succint and as factual as possible.

Singapore and Canada signed their first bilateral in the mid-80s, and AC started YYZ-LHR-BOM-SIN not long after. During the negotiations, the Civil Aviation Authority of Singapore (CAAS) was primarily interested in getting AC to SIN, and hence they agreed to terms that were not favourable to SQ starting services to both YVR and YYZ. For example, to YYZ, SQ could not operate through a number of European cities, and all flights had to stop first in Montreal. To YVR, they could not fly through some Asian cities, and they had to stop on the US West Coast first.

SQ protested to the CAAS, and around 1986 or so they gave Canada 12 months' notification that the bilateral was being voided. The two countries went back to the negotiating table and agreed on a new bilateral. With this new bilateral, SQ started SIN-SEL-YVR in 1988 and SIN-VIE-AMS-SIN in 1991. AC, meanwhile, withdrew their route in early 1991 because of losses.

Not long after SQ started flying to YYZ, AC protested to Transport Canada, saying that SQ flew too many fifth freedom passengers between Europe and YYZ. Incidentally, AC did not fly to AMS at the time but they had nonstop service to VIE. Transport Canada therefore gave 12 months' notice. This time, the two countries could not agree and the bilateral was cancelled.

SQ continued operating the YVR service under a "special license" that has to be renewed yearly. The YYZ flights were discontinued. Till today, the two countries do not have a bilateral.

There is more to this than what I have described above, but this is the gist of it

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