ConcordeBoy
Topic Author
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

How Will AF Sell 2-class Caribbean Routes?

Tue May 25, 2004 1:42 am

I'm aware that on some of AF's Caribbean routes (e.g., SXM in this case), they sell the 3-class aircraft as Biz, Econ+, and Econ.... instead of F/C/Y.

Once all non-777s are transferred to two-class seating only, how will they offer the aforementioned service? All Y+/Y, or J/Y?

...anyone?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
ConcordeBoy
Topic Author
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RE: How Will AF Sell 2-class Caribbean Routes?

Tue May 25, 2004 5:25 am

Also, now that I think about it.... anyone know the total number of 3class destinations that are sold in this manner?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5192
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: How Will AF Sell 2-class Caribbean Routes?

Sun May 30, 2004 5:04 pm

ConcordeBoy,

The first B744, equipped in J/Y configuration is already in service on the CDG-HAV. (F-GITJ : 40J/393Y )

40J are sold as...Business. The 57 Y seats at the U/D are sold as "Alizee Class" (Eco +), the rest as Eco-

The seats are the same (even now) in "S" (Alizee Class) and "M" (Vacances). Only the the service is different...
 
cx123
Posts: 683
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 8:51 pm

RE: How Will AF Sell 2-class Caribbean Routes?

Sun May 30, 2004 5:26 pm

When is AF upgrading its J and F Class. I saw the pictures and press release last year but haven't heard anything since?

Also what is this Economy Plus???
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5192
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: How Will AF Sell 2-class Caribbean Routes?

Sun May 30, 2004 7:55 pm

The reconfiguration has already started. Some A343 and A332 are already modified, as well as one B744 (actually the last one delivered to AF last April, and fitted already with the new seats config.)
The two new B777-300ER are also configured with the new seats.

"Economy Plus" is in fact a class called "Alizée". It is sold only on flight from/to CDG to/fom French Overseas Departement : FDF,PTP,RUN,CAY,SXM. and "sun/leisure" destinations : SQD, HAV, MRU, PUJ.

There is no First class product on these flights. Just Business/Alizée/Vacances.

Alizée is a "premium" economy, with a Y seat but better pitch and better inflight service, similar to the "normal" economy on other destinations.
"Vacances" is a discount economy : No magazines, no Champagne, no choice of hot main dish etc...
 
cba
Posts: 4228
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2000 2:02 pm

RE: How Will AF Sell 2-class Caribbean Routes?

Sun May 30, 2004 11:59 pm

http://airtransportbiz.free.fr/AF/NewCabins.html

Air Transport Biz has an excellent description of AF's new cabins in general.

 
cx123
Posts: 683
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 8:51 pm

RE: How Will AF Sell 2-class Caribbean Routes?

Mon May 31, 2004 12:19 am

So they are just taking out something and just call it a premium product to charge extra $$$???

On the AF website they don't have any information on the new F and J Class?

Does anyone have pics of the new seats?
 
Spike
Posts: 1110
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 1:08 am

RE: How Will AF Sell 2-class Caribbean Routes?

Mon May 31, 2004 12:23 am

Those routes will be going to KLM as they have a better Caribbean network. I would suspect KLM will keep the superior 3 class system on the long-hauls.
 
aq737
Posts: 540
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2000 10:47 am

RE: How Will AF Sell 2-class Caribbean Routes?

Mon May 31, 2004 4:55 am

KLM has only offered 2-class on all of its international flights for a while now.
 
LJ
Posts: 4146
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: How Will AF Sell 2-class Caribbean Routes?

Mon May 31, 2004 6:13 pm

Those routes will be going to KLM as they have a better Caribbean network. I would suspect KLM will keep the superior 3 class system on the long-hauls.

I highly doubt KLM will take over any Carribean flight from AF (or vice cersa). Not only is AF much bigger in the Carribean but most Carribean traffic from both KLM and AF is point-to-point traffic (holiday or "ethnic" traffic).
 
globetrekker
Posts: 800
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 10:51 am

RE: How Will AF Sell 2-class Caribbean Routes?

Tue Jun 01, 2004 9:44 am

I also agree with LJ on that, however the big question remains SXM.
SXM is the only destination in the Caribbean on which KL and AF competed on. AF has daily service and KL twice weekly service.

As of June 1st all KL and AF flights to the Caribbean will carry the other airline two letter code. So they are now officially AF/KL flights. A decision will be taken soon, but I think that AF will continue to serve SXM while KL will stick to AUA, BON and CUR.
The World Is A Book And Those Who Do Not Travel Read Only A Page
 
LJ
Posts: 4146
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: How Will AF Sell 2-class Caribbean Routes?

Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:06 am

As of June 1st all KL and AF flights to the Caribbean will carry the other airline two letter code. So they are now officially AF/KL flights. A decision will be taken soon, but I think that AF will continue to serve SXM while KL will stick to AUA, BON and CUR.

Globetrekker, I don't agree. The SXM flight is full of holidaymakers and there is one thing holiday makers don't like and that's transfering at a foreign airport.
 
ConcordeBoy
Topic Author
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Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: How Will AF Sell 2-class Caribbean Routes?

Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:53 am

40J are sold as...Business. The 57 Y seats at the U/D are sold as "Alizee Class" (Eco +), the rest as Eco-

I see... and what of the A340s?

Or will they discontinue Caribbean/sunny destinations once the 744s are all reconfigured?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
globetrekker
Posts: 800
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 10:51 am

RE: How Will AF Sell 2-class Caribbean Routes?

Wed Jun 02, 2004 4:07 am

-LJ,

If I understand you correctly, you think that AF and KL will both keep serving SXM? That seems unlikely to me. You argument is that holiday makers will not like transferring at CDG to fly AF to SXM?

If there is no KLM to SXM anymore, they won't have much choice. And unlike KL, AF seems to have no problem filling their flights to SXM, a daily service. While when KL started their non-stop AMS-SXM-AMS service it was quickly discontinued due to poor loads.

However, you may be right, but only time will tell.As of now all AF flights to SXM have a KL prefix and all KL flight have a AF prefix also. In SXM they are still handled seperately by different ground handlers, however when one of the contracts ends, one ground handler will be chosen to handle all AF/KL flights. So combined AF and KL have nine weekly flights to SXM.

GT
The World Is A Book And Those Who Do Not Travel Read Only A Page
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5192
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: How Will AF Sell 2-class Caribbean Routes?

Wed Jun 02, 2004 6:24 am

AF & KLM will both continue to serve SXM.
AF is 6xWeekly nonstop to SXM from CDG (Daily during the European Winter season).
St-Martin/Marteen is a Franco-Dutch Island and has to be served from AMS.

ConcordeBoy, the A340, after being reconfigured will continue to serve SXM, and CAY...and maybe more "sun destination" as the cabin configuration (without the First Class) will be more adapted to that kind of line.
 
ConcordeBoy
Topic Author
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: How Will AF Sell 2-class Caribbean Routes?

Wed Jun 02, 2004 7:19 am

the A340, after being reconfigured will continue to serve SXM, and CAY...and maybe more "sun destination" as the cabin configuration (without the First Class) will be more adapted to that kind of line.

All of a sudden jumping from 8 biz seats to nearly 40...??

Or will it continue to sell the cabins as S&M? [ Laugh out loud]
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!

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