UAL747
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Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Tue May 25, 2004 2:35 am

Are airport officials sympathetic to Israeli and Islamic country flights being at gates next to each other? Or do they seperate them? Simple question, just wondering what the proceedure is. I know last time I was at LHR, AA was next to EK, though EK is a fairly moderate country.

UAL747

[Edited 2004-05-24 19:41:07]
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David_itl
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Tue May 25, 2004 2:48 am


In the late 1980s, an El Al parked next to a MEA 707 at MAN (admittedly the MEA was on a sub-charter for a British airline so "absent-mindedness" may have ocurred)

David
 
RJNUT
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Tue May 25, 2004 3:24 am

I boarded a Turkish flight from Istanbul to Tel Aviv and we shared a gate area with Iran Air to Tehran. with no problem
I think most people in this world are civilized and dont get worked up over suc h things.. It's the governments and the minority extremists that get sensitive to these "issues".
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Tue May 25, 2004 5:18 am

I guess that would be rally too much. LY flights being forced to avoid certain airspaces is bad enough. Does any Arab/Muslim country actually allow LY flights to pass through its airspace? Turkey?
 
BA
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Tue May 25, 2004 5:22 am

I see Arab airlines parked next to El Al or flights heading to Israel often.

In Frankfurt, I saw a Gulf Air A340-300 parked right next to an El Al 767-300ER.

Does any Arab/Muslim country actually allow LY flights to pass through its airspace? Turkey?

Turkey, Egypt, and Jordan. All have peace agreements with Israel.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
ryanb741
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Tue May 25, 2004 5:22 am

I would have thought Turkey and Jordan would allow Israeli airlines into their airspace as they have fairly decent relations with Israel.

Anyway, I have seen an El Al 744 at LHR next to a Gulf Air A340 (The UAE doesn't recognise Israel) so I'm sure that's not an issue. It's not like they're going to start shooting at each other!
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
ryanb741
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Tue May 25, 2004 5:22 am

Damn, BA beat me to it  Sad
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ryanb741
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Tue May 25, 2004 5:25 am

BTW I once got off an Emirates flight at LHR T3 and a 747 from Air India and another from PIA had just deboarded. There was no hostility between the 2 sets of pax in immigration. 99.9% of the population are civilised, it's just a few morons spoiling it for everybody else.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
su184
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Tue May 25, 2004 5:30 am

To add more, LY flies to Cairo about 3 times weekly, and AirSinai ( EgyptAir operation to Israel ) flies to Tel Aviv. No problems. At ORY, LY with all arab airlines ( Tunis Air, Air Algerie, EgyptAir, RAM ) in the same terminal. Life is easy and only complicated by those who want to.
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Tue May 25, 2004 5:31 am

I was really surprised, when I found out that Lebanon will not let a person accross its border if that person's passport has a stamp from Israel. I knew that Syria and Saudi Arabia does the same thing, but they are notorious hardcore Israel-haters. But Lebanon? Watching commercials on CNN promoting Lebanon as multicultural, tolerant country I thought they were not so low.

Ryanb1: For some reason I always thought that Gulf Air was owned by some British company!?
 
ryanb741
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Tue May 25, 2004 5:33 am

Gulf Air is owned by the United Arab Emirates Government AFAIK.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
Sabena332
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Tue May 25, 2004 5:35 am

At Frankfurt, LY between SV, EK and KU:


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Richard28
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Tue May 25, 2004 5:39 am

I think I am correct in saying that in th 70's/80's El Al and SAA were both kept away from other airlines at LHR, by placing them away from other longhaulers at Terminal 1.

Is there truth in this, or is it just how things panned out because of lack of gates?
 
OD720
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Tue May 25, 2004 5:48 am

L410Turbolet,

It's a policy adopted by Lebanon and many other Arab countries as well.

I know a few people (Americans) who've had a very difficult time in Israel after Lebanese stamps were seen in their passports.

Regarding the main topic, as a few people who already mentioned, people don't seem to really mind which is a good thing.

Regards.
 
BA
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Tue May 25, 2004 7:36 am

I was really surprised, when I found out that Lebanon will not let a person accross its border if that person's passport has a stamp from Israel. I knew that Syria and Saudi Arabia does the same thing, but they are notorious hardcore Israel-haters. But Lebanon? Watching commercials on CNN promoting Lebanon as multicultural, tolerant country I thought they were not so low.

Lebanon is a multicultural and tolerant country. We do have Jews who have equal rights as with the Muslims and Christians.

Lebanon's problem is with Israel, not the Jews. Remember that Israel occupied southern Lebanon for 19 years. Lebanese hardly feel warm about Israel their southern neighbor. They also send spies into Lebanon all the time.

It's nothing but politics.

All of the Arab countries except Jordan and Egypt do the same thing. Turkey does the same as well, but they are not an Arab country.  Smile

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Tue May 25, 2004 7:47 am

BA: It's kind of shortsighted measure, don't you think? I can't think of a way this should harm Israel and Lebanon is only punishing third, uninvolved party, let's say a businessman from Vanuatu (a potentuial spy?), who just happens to have a stamp from his last business trip to TLV. Not exactly a way to attract tourists!

Are you sure that Turkey has the same rule regarding Israeli stamps? Doesn't seem likely to me!
 
BA
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Tue May 25, 2004 7:59 am

It's kind of shortsighted measure, don't you think? I can't think of a way this should harm Israel and Lebanon is only punishing third, uninvolved party, let's say a businessman from Vanuatu (a potentuial spy?), who just happens to have a stamp from his last business trip to TLV. Not exactly a way to attract tourists!

You do have a point and I am not denying it. Let's just all hope their is peace one day.

The reason why Lebanon enforces this ruling is really a matter of national security. Israel has sent many spies in the past and their are many already in Lebanon. They either come in with fake passports or higher non-Israelis living outside to do spy work.

So either way, as you said, it is ineffective.

True that it does not help in tourism, but their are many who have not visited Israel yet. These can visit Lebanon without any problems. So it affects a small percentage of tourists compared to the total number out there.

I think this article would interest you:
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&categ_id=3&article_id=4184

Are you sure that Turkey has the same rule regarding Israeli stamps? Doesn't seem likely to me!

I meant Turkey is the same as Jordan and Egypt in that they will allow Israeli stamps.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
rihannsu
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Wed May 26, 2004 12:23 pm

Actually, we (the USA) give problems to people from other countries with Cuban stamps... Just an observation  Smile
 
CXA330300
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Wed May 26, 2004 12:33 pm

This whole passport-stamp thing is utterly ridiculous. The Lebanese are afraid because they might be a spy, which is highly unlikely, and the Israelis are afraid of terrorists, which is also rather unlikely. I have always wanted to visit Lebanon, and alas, I can't, an Israeli stamp in my passport, and as of July, two.
Lebanon is actually a very multicultural country, just is, it's overshadowed by Syria. If Lebanon were to make peace with Israel, Syria would get very angry, and we all know the consequences. It's not a complete matter of choice for Lebanon.
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wgw2707
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Wed May 26, 2004 12:53 pm

What about Bahrain? Someone told me they expel anybody with an Israeli passport. Do they give Americans a hard time too? It was sickening seeing them get to host a Formula One event too. It was no different from the Nazis showing off at the 1936 Olympics. And no, I didn't watch the F1 race and I never will.

Why? I fail to see how not allowing persons to enter a country with an Israeli passport could be likened to the Nazis at the 1936 Olympics. It is a problem with a specific country, not with the Jews in general. It arguably is unfortunate that the only state with a Jewish-majority is Israel as that exposes the entire Jewish population to criticism for the affairs of a single country that a substantial number of them have nothing to do with.

The fact is that since its UN-enforced creation in 1948, the modern day state of Israel has proven a complete lack of ability when it comes to harmonious relations with its neighbors. I would argue that after experiencing to the fullest degree the horror of World War II the new Jewish settlers in Palestine would have been well-served by creating a country that was a model of pacifist neutrality, tolerance and cooperation with neighbors, similiar to Switzerland or Scandinavia. Instead, the government of the new state fought a series of bloody wars with most of the surrounding countries, developed nuclear weapons illegally, and inspired a lasting and perhaps unmutable resentment from the Arab governments.

BTW, the solution for those of you who want to visit Arab countries but have an Israeli stamp in your passport is to replace your passport or alternately when entering Israel request that the customs officers place the stamp on a seperate sheet of paper, which apparently is a request they will honor most of the time...

-WGW2707

 
BA
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Wed May 26, 2004 1:03 pm

The Lebanese are afraid because they might be a spy, which is highly unlikely

Their are hundredss of Israeli spies in Lebanon and Lebanese Intelligence catch a couple every month.

Lebanon is actually a very multicultural country, just is, it's overshadowed by Syria. If Lebanon were to make peace with Israel, Syria would get very angry, and we all know the consequences. It's not a complete matter of choice for Lebanon.

I disagree. Syria overshadowing Lebanon has been greatly exaggerated by the west. Yes, Syria is involved in our politics, but not the way the west portrays it.

Lebanese have harsher feelings towards Israel than Syrians do towards Israel. Two major massacres were comitted in Lebanon done by Israel. The Sabra and Chatilla massacre and the more recent Qana massacre. Syria hasn't experienced anything close to what Lebanon has....

By the way, it was agreed by the Arab League that the other 20 Arab nations (excluding Jordan and Egypt) would sign peace with Israel together at the same time. It would be a joint peace agreement. Not individual to each country.

If you wanted to visit Lebanon. I would have suggested you visit Lebanon first, then visit Israel. While Israel on MOST circumstances will allow visitors with Arab stamps in their passport, expect a lot of interrogation. And I mean a lot.

By the way, if you ever do visit Lebanon. I highly suggest you visit Syria as well. An equally fascinating country with very very friendly people. The Syrian border is less than 3 hours from Beirut.

Very well said WGW2707.

Regards

[Edited 2004-05-26 06:09:55]
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
haveric
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Wed May 26, 2004 1:53 pm

Hmmm. Didn't realize that I was considered a spy. Kinda cool, I guess.
 
Tubbyboeing
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flight

Wed May 26, 2004 2:03 pm

I have seen an ELAL B767 parked next to an Emirates A330 or B777 at JNB many times. No worries at all, they are just different carriers from different countries parked next to each other.

Regards
 
BA
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Wed May 26, 2004 2:18 pm

What about Bahrain? Someone told me they expel anybody with an Israeli passport. Do they give Americans a hard time too? It was sickening seeing them get to host a Formula One event too. It was no different from the Nazis showing off at the 1936 Olympics. And no, I didn't watch the F1 race and I never will.

All of the 21 Arab nations (22 if you include the Palestinian National Authority) except Jordan and Egypt will not allow you to enter if you have an Israeli stamp in your passport whether used, unused, valid, or invalid. If you are an Israeli passport holder, you also aren't allowed.

The exception for MOST of the Arab countries however is if you belong in a large tour group that has been pre-approved. In that case, you can visit the country even if you have an Israeli stamp. My suggestion for those who have visited Israel is if they want to visit an Arab country, join a large tour group, be sure to inquire that you will be allowed to enter however.

I don't know about other Arab countries, but in Lebanon, if you have an Israeli stamp, you can transit in Beirut International Airport without leaving the airport. You are entitled a maximum of a 24 hour stay in the airport.

The airlines are instructed to check passports thoroughly before boarding and make sure passengers who are traveling do not have an Israeli stamp or are using an Israeli passport. If for whatever reason the airline doesn't notice a stamp an a passenger actually flies to the Arab country and is caught by passport control, you will be put on the return flight. Not really a big deal. However, if you are convicted of spying for the Israeli Mossad, you'll be thrown in jail and put in trial. This happened in Lebanon about a year ago. A Canadian had entered Lebanon and had an Israeli stamp. His luggage was thoroughly checked and they found some "suspicious" papers. He also had a suspicious business card from Israel with him. I don't know any details however. He was put on trial, and eventually was found not guilty and was sent back to Canada. But there have been times in which spies were caught.

Hope this clears everything regarding the passport issue.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
EK345
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Wed May 26, 2004 2:20 pm

I was once travelling to Jeddah from LHR T4 and the gate next to our was another BA flight to Tel Aviv.

By the way, I think you summed it up in a nutshell, WGW2707.

EK345

"and miles to go before I sleep..."
 
Gabrielz
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Wed May 26, 2004 3:56 pm

Although this continues to be off-topic, I feel compelled to respond...

WGW2707, your "assessment" of the history of the state of Israel is flawed and misleading.

Since the state's inception in 1948, it has been attacked by Arab nations (including "moderates") twice - once in 1967 and once in 1973. In both of those conflicts, the Israeli armed forces beat back these impossibly larger invaders, asserting its control over territories required for its security. The loss of the war (and the economic incentives provided by the US) are the only reasons why Egypt and Jordan made peace with Israel in the first place. This prevented other Arab countries from invading Israel effectively (as they would have to stage in Jordan/Egypt). Syria is only kept at bay by the Israeli control of the Golan Heights.

So, those two bloody conflicts, in which Israel defended itself - along withthe support of the US, were successful at creating a peace between it and its neighbors.

Once the Israeli state became too militarily powerful to defeat in a traditional conflict, those nations that sought its destruction turned to the only remaining force: radical Islam. By manipulating the suffering of the Palestinians, they have waged a war of attrition against Israel unparalleled in the modern world. They have used poverty and religion to send countless children to their deaths, for nothing more than spite and hatred. The reality is that the Arab world doesn't care much for the Palestinian people (see: Black September, Jordan, 1970) - only their instrumentation against Israel.

The Israeli people genuinely want peace and security in their lifetimes. Although they don't always do what's right, their actions are not motivated by religious or ethnic hatred. They have not, do not and will not seek the death of innocent civilians as a means to "send a message". Nor will you see any credible Israeli politicians calling for the death of all Arabs or for them to be "driven into the sea". These are all statements made by Arab organizations on a routine and consistent basis against Israel and the Jews since the dawn of the modern era - including those made by Yassir Arafat - himself a convicted terrorist.

While I applaud the efforts of everyone to get a better understanding of the issues surrounding the middle east conflict, please try and speak from fact next time. It makes for much more compelling arguments.

And PS - the US doesn't bar people who visited Cuba from entering the country. Most of the Arab League *bars* Jews and people who have visited Israel from entry. These two treatments are not equal. Full Stop.
 
Alessandro
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Wed May 26, 2004 5:33 pm

Also Iraqi stamp can mean problem in some arab countries, like UAE?
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
UTA_flyinghigh
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flight

Wed May 26, 2004 5:51 pm

Also Iraqi stamp can mean problem in some arab countries, like UAE?

That's why some foreign countries issue 2 passports to their nationals travelling to Israel on a regular basis.

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windshear
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Wed May 26, 2004 6:10 pm

I have seen pictures of an ELY 777 and a SVA 777 parked next to each other at JFK...ELY never dock connected to a gate, they do board, but don't park using an airbridge...

Boaz...
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
mjszanto
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Wed May 26, 2004 6:34 pm

WGW2707,

First of all to correct you in the 1956 war, Egypt blockaded Israel's water access cutting off most of its trade effectively starving it. France and Britain just plotted to take advantage of Israel's actions to open the waterway.

It is also odd that you say how many people have suffered from the "barbaric draft". The greatest cause of premature deaths in Israel have been car crashes, with only in recent years indescriminate terrorist attacks killing both Arab and Jewish Israeli citizens coming even close to as much. Israelis have one of the highest life expectancies. As far as calling it a militaristic society, I have to disagree on this 100%. Have you ever been there? For a more balanced look check out israel21c.com. Actually until this past year Syrians wore military uniforms to school I believe. The irony is that I think that Lebanon and Israel have similar cultures in many respects.

BA,

Sabra and Shantilla massacres in 1982 were done by Lebanese militias led by Elie Hobeika. The Kahan Commission in Israel found Ariel Sharon indirectly responsible since he had allowed the Lebanese militias into the Palestinian camps. Eli Hobeika served as Lebanese cabinet minister in the mid 1990s. There were many other massacres that were committed between various Lebanese factions during the tragic civil war. One site of a massacre was Damour as well and some Lebanese neighborhoods got shelled hard by the Syrians, others by Aoun, others by the Israelis, and at one point some by American naval forces.
 
voodoo
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Wed May 26, 2004 6:36 pm

Richard28 wrote:
I think I am correct in saying that in th 70's/80's El Al and SAA were both kept away from other airlines at LHR, by placing them away from other longhaulers at Terminal 1.
----------------

Yes at the time T1 was the most security conscious ... note all Irish flights also went there.

` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Wed May 26, 2004 7:19 pm

What rally strikes me is the ill logic of that "Israeli stamp" measure. Is any responsible official in Arab country convinced that they will harm Israel by preventing third country nationals to enter their country with Israeli stamp in passports? Definitely a way how to uncover Israeli spies Yeah sure

Slightly off-topic: Is it true about the Bible in a suitcase being a reason to be refused entry to Saudi Arabia?
 
EuroLeb
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Wed May 26, 2004 7:36 pm

Guys you are going way off topic here. Let's hope that one day there will be peace between Israel and the other 20 Arabic countries. In my opinion, this whole thread should be deleted! For now, let's stick with Airline matters please!
Calgary is my home...
 
CXA330300
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Wed May 26, 2004 8:06 pm

If you wanted to visit Lebanon. I would have suggested you visit Lebanon first, then visit Israel. While Israel on MOST circumstances will allow visitors with Arab stamps in their passport, expect a lot of interrogation. And I mean a lot. (BA)

BA, family obligations made me visit Israel first. Anyway, I can easily wait until my passport expires. Lebanon is not on the top of my list.

By the way, it was agreed by the Arab League that the other 20 Arab nations (excluding Jordan and Egypt) would sign peace with Israel together at the same time. It would be a joint peace agreement. Not individual to each country. (BA)

When?

Agreed, EuroLeb. Enough is enough.
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qr332
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Wed May 26, 2004 8:32 pm

There was also a lot of trouble before Saddams regime if you went to Kuwait with an Iraqi stamp and vice versa, its all politics.

CXA,
When

Someone posted a link to the agreement on the Non-Av forums. I cant find it now. It basically demands that an independant Palestinian state is made according to 67 borders and that Israel withdraws from the Golan Heights, then they will agree to peace with Israel and will recognize them 100%. Nothing unfair about that.

Anyway, back to the topic -

Whats wrong with an Arab and Israeli airline being side by side? Its not like their gonna blow each other up.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
targowski
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Wed May 26, 2004 10:07 pm

i think the agreement would be that all of the arab countries would normalize relations with israel with full embassies and diplomacy, trade, etc if israel would withdraw completely to 1967 borders including giving up the golan heights. i would disagree with it being fair to do so. those aren't particularly defensible borders to begin with, thus the 1967 war. While i am no lover of israel's "facts on the ground" approach to drawing borders, i think what is appropriate is pretty much what should have happened in camp david in 2000 with arafat and barak. too bad....

el al still flies a flight to cairo. i think they do it in an all white unmarked plane. can anyone confirm? i dont think el al flies to amman, but royal jordanian does that flight. has anyone been on those flights? they must be surreal. i am guessing that it is mostly israeli arabs seeing family.

 
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airzim
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Wed May 26, 2004 10:24 pm

Although it may be official policy to not allow people into certain countries if you have an Israeli stamp in your passport, I can assure you that in practical terms this is not the case.

I had several Israeli stamps in my passport and travelled to Jordan, Egypt, UAE, Kuwait, Morocco, Tunisia, Malaysia, and Oman and was never turned back. In fact I don't think anyone ever looked through the pages with any great detail except to find a blank space.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Wed May 26, 2004 11:03 pm

Getting back to the topic here...I would assume at airports like JFK, LHR, AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA and others where a/c of El Al, and airlines of Islamic countries are close to each other, there is additional ground and gate security, especially as to the El Al a/c and gates. In addition, all airports have much stricter security today to protect all aircraft, not just those from Israel, Islamic countries (have to add USA today too).
 
windshear
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Wed May 26, 2004 11:15 pm

Em cough cough...There was a question and all of a suddon we start discussing 1967 and The Golan heights...

CXA I have an Egyptian stamp in my passports, two actually and that never really gave me any trouble...
ELY also flies to Cairo you know...Or they used to, don't know about this summer's flight plans...

What actually gave me some waiting time, was when I traveled alone and they asked me what connection I had to Israel, I told them my father was from Israel, and I then was asked to wait, in order for them to check it out...

Hmm...Ah well the women at the passport counter smiled and wished me a great stay so it wasn't that bad  Big grin

Boaz...
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
avi
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Wed May 26, 2004 11:31 pm

WGW2707, you should be shamed of your self. You are a crew member and still your posts here have nothing to do with aviation (and this is an aviation forum) nor the topic itself (I’m not talking about BA since this is an hopeless case). Although I have a lot to say about what you (and BA) said, I’m not going to do it in here.

I think we all understood by now that there are / were many cases where El-Al aircrafts parked near Arab countries aircrafts (my parents returned once to Israel from somewhere and next to them there was a Syrian aircraft) and there are / were no problems. Time to lock this topic.

Long live the B747
 
Dirkou
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RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Wed May 26, 2004 11:46 pm

>I believe that the current state of Israel does not properly represent the >interests of its own people, nor does it represent the interests of the world >Jewish community who want a homeland that they can be proud of, that is >not a center of controversy

Why don't create that homeland somewhere in Nebraska, Wyoming or Idaho?
Israel is only 4 million people. So many empty places and they had to cause trouble to all the world...
 
Guest

RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Wed May 26, 2004 11:55 pm

But WGW is absolutely right, Avi - so why are you angry?
And BA a hopeless case? Cause he has another opinion as you have? Israel always says it's the only democracy in Middle East - so let him post his opinions, very easy.
 
Guest

RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Thu May 27, 2004 12:04 am

By the way, when I was in Israel in 1992, I got a sheet of paper, they added my passport number and made a stamp on the paper, so I only had to show the stamp when I left Israel - threw away the sheet.

Very simple solution.
 
ultrapig
Posts: 568
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 11:38 pm

RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Thu May 27, 2004 12:06 am

I was about to agree with Avi when I read Dirkou's post.

Jews have resided in the area now called Israel for 3200 years. During WWII Jews discovered that they could not count on others to keep them from being exterminated. Eurp ope has exterminated its Jews. Now the Arab World is trying to do the same. When Israel was established its true that about 700k of Arabs left Israel-but about the same number were thrown out.

Yes there are a lot of Jews in the US because it is a pluralistic non tribal society of which I am proud to be a member-but it is not a Jewish State. The 22 Arab countries can't seem to absorb the descendants of the 700k refugees from Israel after 56 years and with the exception of a few (BA is right pre-Syrian controlled Lebanon-No one in the Arab controlled countries can practice Judaism or for that matter has a difficult time practicing Christianity ( Horus I know about the Coptics-but they don't have it easy in Egypt) The point is that there ought to be one country on a sliver of land which Mark Twain noted w used to be desolate where Jews can call the country their own-Its time the Arabs started looking to their own leaders for their trouble and not the Jews or the Israelis-As far as Israel's Nuclear weapons I'm sure they have them-and the Arabs don't have to worry about them-that is unless they intend to wipe Israel out in which case maybe they ought to thing about it a second time.

I've been to Jordan and Egypt and loved the experience. I'm looking forward to visiting Syria which would have a torrent of tourist if they made peace with Israel-Tourists who would come, look, enjoy and drop their money-And guess what i learned very quickly that the Jordanians and Egyptians were much better hosts than my Israeli cousins- so I'm expecting the same in Palmyra
 
Guest

RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Thu May 27, 2004 12:13 am

Well said, Ultrapig: Europe has exterminated Jews ... (not only Germany). But a shame: Germany did the most and in a very horrible way.
But that can't be the reason that Israel kills Palestine people - they did it before the Intifada when it was mostly silent and calm.
Israel didn't take the opportunity, no, they still built illegal settlements, built swimming pools for children in settlements, the Arabic people had no or only few water for themselves, their animals and the fields.

So you wonder why the Intifada came?

And the US administration? Not that they "only" started a war (and all the reasons for the war were lies), they only support Israel but should make preassure onto them, not only to the "bad" Arabs.
 
avi
Posts: 879
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 1:27 am

RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Thu May 27, 2004 12:19 am

Stefan,
I don’t have problems with BA opinions (well, I do, but he does have the right to post them but this is the civil aviation forum. This is not the place to post them and this is why I’m not replying to Dirkou’s last sentence).

BTW, why don’t you ask him, not in here, who did murder his president in 82, why, and what were the results of it?

Long live the B747
 
Guest

RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Thu May 27, 2004 12:22 am

I wanted to send him an E-Mail cause I also think that we shouldn't post political statements. Somebody started (Anti-Arabic) and so it continued.
Also let's ask who killed Izak Rabbin, the man who gave hope to a whole area?
 
IAD777
Posts: 120
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 7:15 am

RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Thu May 27, 2004 12:37 am

WGW2707-

Stop with your political rants--this isn't the place for such rants--especially when they are riddled with historical inaccuracies.
History shall be kind to me; for I intend to write it -WSC
 
Guest

RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Thu May 27, 2004 12:42 am

Why don't we stop discussion here?
IAD777 - WGW isn't that wrong  Wink/being sarcastic Even if you don't wanna hear it.
 
Dirkou
Posts: 372
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights

Thu May 27, 2004 12:42 am

>Jews have resided in the area now called Israel for 3200 years.

Indians resided in America before the white came (250 years ago only it was indian land) and it not an indian land now.
2000 years ago parts of what is no France were german, english, spanish and now they are not. It's not because of that France will now invade parts of Germany telling it was France 2000 years ago. So we cannot say anything about the ownership of a land just because it was owned by someone 2000 or 3000 years ago.

I just don't understand 2 things:
1- Why 4 million people are causing such trouble to 6 billion (the population of all the world)?

2- Why were jews always exterminatedand not any other population (for centuries this is happening). So why did happen to them and not any other? PLEASE NOTE I'm NOT being sarcastic. I would just like to understand this.

Let me say that I like Israel a lot, never been there, but I strongly agree on the modern and properous society. I would like to know your point of view.

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