N754PR
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SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

Sun May 30, 2004 1:12 am

This is news I heard so dont bite my head off if its NOT true.

I heard that SQ are removing the word Leadership from their A340-500's due to a various internal problems SQ are having. I cant see any pics to prove this but was told a freind saw one in SIN today with NO Leadership titles.

Do any of you have any news on this?

Rgds
N754PR
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Hamlet69
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RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

Sun May 30, 2004 1:32 am

N754PR,

I've heard this as well, though have not seen proof of it as of yet.

If true, the reasons for it can only be speculated, at this point. However, if SQ does indeed go ahead with a 777-300ER order, as widely speculated, a -200LR order might very well be included. In that case, SQ probably don't want to be publically proclaiming 'LeaderShip' title too loudly, then turn around and ditch the aircraft.

Just a thought.

Hamlet69
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AC
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RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

Sun May 30, 2004 1:48 am

Any problems with the existing A345? Even 773ER and 772LR will be ordered, SQ can still keep their A345... the new triple seven can use some other names or simply modifiy one from "Jubilee"...
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scottysair
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RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

Sun May 30, 2004 1:50 am

Are they sure about SQ want to keep with A345?
 
Guest

RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

Sun May 30, 2004 1:51 am

if SQ does indeed go ahead with a 777-300ER order, as widely speculated, a -200LR

hey lets not tempt fate here  Angry


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[Edited 2004-05-29 18:54:29]
 
wedgetail737
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RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

Sun May 30, 2004 1:52 am

I'm still waiting for SQ to order the 7E7's. I wonder if that'll happen at Farnborough.
 
scottysair
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RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

Sun May 30, 2004 2:01 am

Yeah, might they want orders with 7E7 anytime soon.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

Sun May 30, 2004 2:08 am

Try finding "LeaderShip" on SQ's site... it aint there.

Good stuff.  Big thumbs up

Not to jump to conclusions, but perhaps this is just one step closer to their nigh-inevitable 772LR purchase.  Big grin
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andrewtang
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RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

Sun May 30, 2004 2:12 am

So how does that explains the new acquisition of A340-600 Simulator?

SIA dumping A340-500 for B777-200LR and buying A340-600 to replace the aging 744?
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

Sun May 30, 2004 2:23 am

So how does that explains the new acquisition of A340-600 Simulator?

Simple... because there aren't any A345 simulators available.
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FLYtoEGCC
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RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

Sun May 30, 2004 2:34 am

Big deal. SQ drops the "Leadership" title, so rumours start to spread it's going to be replaced. A340s are going to be dropped in favour of 777s. Hmmm, now where have I heard these rumours before.... Oh I know, Cathay Pacific, Virgin Atlantic...  Yawn

Before all these rumours about the A340-500 being dropped in favour of the B777-200LR turned into a full A vs B war, consider a few points:

  • It is possible for an airline to operate both aircraft types - having one doesn't exclude the other. SQ may want the range and efficiency of the 777LR for some routes (that's not to say the A340-500 isn't efficient, by the way), but may still want four engines for ultra-long range over-water flights. Hence the need for the A340.


  • I fail to see how dropping the name "Leadership" signals the dropping of the aircraft anyway. Sure, it isn't being marketed like a flagship anymore, but I highly doubt the 777LR will be designated "Leadership" because that name has already been used by the A340. They will come up with something new.


  • They have dropped "Leadership" due to "various internal problems". This could be anything... it doesn't mean the aircraft is underperforming, it could be another sort of problem. Like the fact it's a crappy name and the company have decided they don't like it after all.

    There's nothing official been announced yet, so why not wait and see what happens?
  • Come fly with me, let's fly, let's fly away...
     
    dutchjet
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 2:36 am

    With Airbus trying to sell SQ the A330-200Lite and the A340-600, and Boeing wanting to sign SQ up for the 7e7, 777-300ER and 777-200LR, anything can happen, this is a huge contest and both manufactures will do what they have to in order to get the order, including the possibility of Boeing taking SQ's A345s in trade (we all know its happened before).

    But, we could be jumping to conclusions about all of this, maybe SQ is dropping the Leadership name for the A345 aircraft simply for marketing purposes, ie, the name does not send the right message to passengers. I am just guessing here, but maybe consumers just did not get it? SQ has a very nice tradition on giving names to its aircraft types, but maybe this one simply did not catch on. (The Celestar A343s did not set the world on fire either!) Maybe someone more familiar with SQ's operations can help us out.

    Regarding the simulator, I had the understanding that SQ is getting an A346 simulator because there is currently no simulator available for the A345 so this was the next best thing........however, if Boeing can convince SQ to go with the 777LR, it will gladly reimburse SQ whatever costs it has incurred in connection with this simulator.
     
    ConcordeBoy
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 2:54 am

    Hmmm, now where have I heard these rumours before

    SQ... right before the last time they did it?  Laugh out loud




    but may still want four engines for ultra-long range over-water flights.

    That [weak!] argument doesnt hold water with this airline.
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    FLYtoEGCC
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 3:09 am

    "SQ... right before the last time they did it?"

    Did they remove the name "Celestar" from the A340-300s a long time before they got rid of them?

    SQ would have to place an order for the 777 and wait for the aircraft to be built before they can start phasing them into their fleet to replace the A340-500s... so why would they withdraw the name a long time in advance? The customers are still going to be flying on the 345 until it is replaced, if that is to be the case, so why not just carry on marketing it as it is until the time comes?

    That is the reason that makes me think the reason is more to do with the name itself.
    Come fly with me, let's fly, let's fly away...
     
    Guest

    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 3:16 am

    They are still advertising the plane, just as the A340-500 instead

    http://a345.singaporeair.com/index1.aspx?page=none
     
    Horus
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 3:34 am

    I doubt SQ will 'dump' there A345s to order 772LRs. Just because it happened with the A343s, that doesn't mean it'll happen again. And remember when the A343s were ordered the 777 was not even on the market. The A345 is a very capable and efficient aircraft. Besides the 5 they have on firm order, they also have another 5 on option so it seems like a long-term commitment to a niche, expensive aircraft. I actually prefer the 777 but looking at the situation from a LOGICAL point of view, I think they'll stick with the Airbus. I guess we just have to wait and see.

    Horus
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    ConcordeBoy
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 3:50 am

    And remember when the A343s were ordered the 777 was not even on the market

    um, where do you get that from?
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    artsyman
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 4:06 am

    While it is clearly evident that the thought of SQ dumping the A345 has touched a nerve with some of you, it is hard to ignore the significance of them taking the "Leadership" title from that aircraft. While it is agreed that we will have to wait and see, it is pretty tough to just dismiss it as nothing.

    Jeremy
     
    SInGAPORE_AIR
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 4:14 am



    At the present moment, the dumping of LEADERSHIP from the Airbus A340-500s is more or less true but for what it is attributable to is currently unknown.

    Replacement of the A340-500 by the 777-200LR is pure speculation. To answer a question above, Singapore Airlines Limited did not remove CELESTAR from the A340-300Xs before they departed the fleet.

    Playing devil's advocate.
    It's more or less OK to state that most SIA planes that stay for an 'acceptable' period of time have names. SUPERBUS = A300, SUPER B = 747-200B, MEGATOP = 747-400, JUBILEE = 777, CELESTAR = A340, 3TEN = A310.
    The 757-200 didn't have a name.

    Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
     
    Horus
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 4:15 am

    um, where do you get that from?

    Check when SQ ordered the A343, and you'll get your answer  Big thumbs up

    p.s. it was in an FI article about SQ some time ago.
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    artsyman
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 4:25 am

    t's more or less OK to state that most SIA planes that stay for an 'acceptable' period of time have names. SUPERBUS = A300, SUPER B = 747-200B, MEGATOP = 747-400, JUBILEE = 777,
    ****

    Except that they just received these planes in January, and were spending a fortune marketing "leadership" all over the place right up until about a few weeks ago ?.

    If this was a positive and planned move for SQ, then it would not have slipped away in the background with no mention anywhere.

    While I am far from an expert on SQ, I would be surprised if history showed them dropping names as fast as this. They just received their first A345 in January.

    For the Airbus lovers that can never accept any sort of negativity associated with any Airbus aircraft, what do you think the reasons are that they would be making this change.
     
    ConcordeBoy
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 4:29 am

    Check when SQ ordered the A343, and you'll get your answer

    ...I did, hence the question  Yeah sure




    SUPERBUS = A300, SUPER B = 747-200B, MEGATOP = 747-400, JUBILEE = 777, CELESTAR = A340, 3TEN = A310

    You forgot MEGA ARK = 747F
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    FLYtoEGCC
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 4:34 am

    I am not one of the "Airbus lover" crowd on here, I was just trying to point out that all of this talk about the A340-500 being dropped is pure speculation. As you say, they just received their first A340-500 in January - so surely it's a bit early for them, just under 6 months into operation, to be making any major decisions about replacing the entire fleet, including ones that aren't even built yet. Surely it's not performing that badly - I think we'd have heard about it by now if it was. To answer your question, I think the reason they are making this change is because they've decided it's not a great name, perhaps the marketing hasn't gone as well as they would have liked, and they've decided to change it. They didn't remove the "Celestar" name before the A340-300s went, so why should removing the Leadership imply that the A340-500s are going to be on the way out?
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    solnabo
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 4:39 am

    When it comes to SIA and the CEO thay are very ambivalent conserning A vs B
    I bet they sell off the 345 and put the T7LR on the routes........typical SIA!
    Bunch of pathetic *^#!½  Angry
    This topic is gonna be A/B war.........

    Micke//SE
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    ConcordeBoy
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 4:41 am

    including ones that aren't even built yet

    Just as an FYI sorta thing...

    ...when SQ canned the A343, many of them hadn't been built yet either.
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    Guest

    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 4:44 am

    I bet they sell off the 345 and put the T7LR on the routes........typical SIA!
    Bunch of pathetic *^#!½


    Well, if SQ do swap the A345's for 772R's, i just hope Airbus do the equivalent of spitting in ones burger with the A380's.
     
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    solnabo
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 4:47 am

    It´s the same old story:
    I heard a roumor / from a friends friend / from my granny etc. etc.
    Puuhhleezzee  Nuts

    Mike//Löddeköping?
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    Horus
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 4:48 am

    SUPERBUS = A300, SUPER B = 747-200B, MEGATOP = 747-400, JUBILEE = 777, CELESTAR = A340, 3TEN = A310

    You forgot MEGA ARK = 747F


    Also B747-300 = BIG TOP


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    ConcordeBoy
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 4:51 am

    i just hope Airbus do the equivalent of spitting in ones burger with the A380's

    ...ah yes, thus sealing their fate with what many consider to be the world's greatest international airline  Insane
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    artsyman
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 4:51 am

    It´s the same old story:
    I heard a roumor / from a friends friend / from my granny etc. etc.
    ****

    Is it, ok then, you explain to us why just a few weeks ago, SQ had big adverts all over the place hailing their A345 Leadership aircraft, and now they have stopped all advertising, and you can no longer find anything on the SQ website at all about Leadership. They have even changed the old advertising to reflect the dropped name.

    Seems like fact to me, not rumour. If we were speculating that SQ might drop the name, then I would agree with you, but they have dropped the name, it is gone....

    Jeremy
     
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    solnabo
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 4:52 am

    Roberta:
    I hope so too.......*lol*

    Micke//Töreboda
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    GoAibusGo
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 4:59 am

    Yes, typical SIA.
    Always buying and changing everything. Just like their female F/As.
    Trying to be the "perfect" airline.

    Lets see what they will do regarding this issue. It won't surprise me if they do it. Problably they will do it, as they NEED to fly every new wide-body from A. and B. (Here I see the A340-200/300 and the A330-200/300 as similar product that they already had in the A340-300 Celestars)
     
    Horus
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 5:20 am

    Concordeboy, I thought you were being sarcastic with your question. Airbus launched the A340 in the 1987 Paris Airshow. SQ ordered soon after AF and LHs launch orders. I will try to find the article to tell you the exact date of the order. But as you can see the 340 was launched years before the 777. If both were launched at the same time then SQ would of probably gone for the 777 straight away. I quess it was a matter of timing.

    Hope this helps

    Horus
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    ConcordeBoy
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 5:28 am

    might be wrong, as I'm horrible with dates... but was under the impression that SQ ordered in 1992.
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    Greg
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 5:45 am

    SQ became the launch customer for the A340-300E on August 2, 1991...for seven firm...and seven subject to confirmation...and six options.

    The order was confirmed on 21 December 1992 for the initial seven aircraft.
     
    Greg
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 5:52 am

    I haven't looked, but could the removal be something as simple as the foreign equivalent of a US copyright infringement?
     
    Horus
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 5:52 am

    Thanks for the info Greg
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    ConcordeBoy
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 5:55 am

    I thought so.


    By the way, it was A343X... not A343E... as is so commonly mistaken.
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    Greg
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 6:06 am

    The E to X moniker was changed after 1991--but I'm not sure when.
    According to the Airbus LOI they were referenced as A340-313E's when launched.

    By the way, it's the 777-300ER and 777-200LR...NOT 777NG as is so commonly mistaken....
     Smile

     
    Horus
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 6:07 am

    By the way, it was A343X... not A343E... as is so commonly mistaken.

    Are you sure? I have a Singapore Airlines poster from 1997, when they celebrated their 50th anniversary. It says they ordered the A340-300E and first one was delivered in 1996. I personelly don't know but what's the difference between the X and E?
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    PhilSquares
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 6:08 am

    Since SQ is my employer, I will go out on a limb with some predictions.

    1) You will see a large 777 order
    2) You will see a large 7E7 order
    3) You will see SQ order the first 777 Cargo aircraft
    4) You will see the 345 go the way of the 343

    Fly fast, live slow
     
    Horus
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 6:13 am

    Very bold predictions Philsquares! Big grin
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    DfwRevolution
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 6:21 am

    I personelly don't know but what's the difference between the X and E?

    ASAIK, the -300X is just a MTOW increase to help the A340 match the 777. The -300E is the Enhanced A340-300 that features the new avionics of the A340NG and a lower burn CFM engine.
     
    donder10
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 6:45 am

    Wasn't HB-JMA of Swiss the first A343E?
     
    GDB
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 8:50 am

    SIA were the first A345 operator, launching it with a record breaking non stop commercial flight, as other operators come on line they won't be the sole A345 user anymore.
    Was 'Leadership' a reflection of being the first A345 operator?
     
    artsyman
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 8:54 am

    Was 'Leadership' a reflection of being the first A345 operator?
    ****

    While it is not impossible for this to be true, I'd bet Concordeboy's life that it isn't true. History has not shown a trend for the names to be used in this way, and it wouldn't really make a lot of sense to spend all that money for that purpose.

    J
     
    Jet-lagged
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 9:26 am

    Actually, if SQ quietly drops the Leadership name as a highlight in their advertisting, that makes sense. It is a good name while this have this ultralong flight (longest in the world?) whicih is clearly special. But when the 772LR starts to fly and longer routes begin, it will look a bit silly splashing the name Leadership all over the place. SQ has enough integrity and marketing savy that they may want to avoid an advertising campaign which is potentially contraversial or questionable.

    If they do retain the aircraft name, and order 772LR, then perhaps they should call the new plane a Jubileadership.  Wink/being sarcastic
     
    ha763
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 9:49 am

    "Was 'Leadership' a reflection of being the first A345 operator?"

    Straight from the Senior Executive Vice-President (Commercial), Michael Tan,

    “We have named the aircraft the A345LeaderShip to underscore its unique characteristics and SIA’s continued commitment to product and service innovation..."

    From an October 15, 2003 SIA press release which can be found on the SIA website.
     
    airmale
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 5:00 pm

    Philsquares I'm going with your predictions.

    Off topic but guys please refrain from using the sarcastic and bitchy "um..." and "hmmm..." bit.
    .....up there with the best!
     
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    solnabo
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    RE: SQ Removing "Leadership" From The A345's?

    Sun May 30, 2004 6:39 pm

    Nobody knows if 7LR is what Boeing promised, the range or if the carriers wants to fly 2 barrels under the wings or 4 of them  Laugh out loud
    Time will tell

    Mike//Knäred
    Airbus SAS - Love them both

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