pilotntrng
Posts: 679
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 8:13 pm

Ramp Rat Revenge

Sun May 30, 2004 12:12 pm

Hey folks,

First of all I would like to apologize for some rude comments in the past. It was out of character.

Here the last few nights many flights have come in ( from DCA,PIT, and CLT) to TYS and the cargo compartment of the CRJ-200 and D328's have been brutalized. Meaning that the carryon bags were buried under checked bags and all the handles were placed away from the door making it a hard task getting them out. This has been an on going battle for a while now, and I am curious why it happens. Don't get me wrong I know the job of a ramp rat is far different at a hub airport than it is at an outstation, but come on guys give us a break. I don't do it to you guys, I wish you wouldn't do it to us. ( Yes, I am speaking as a Piedmont employee to my fellow US Air Employess) I know it was also a problem at Delta, how about any other carriers out there? Any battles raging between stations?


Regards,

Brad
Booooo Lois, Yaaaa Beer!!!
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Ramp Rat Revenge

Sun May 30, 2004 1:06 pm

Shoot could be worse.

Had a 727 combi one time that came in with a load of 2*4's stacked to the ceiling in the after belly, and two igloos of bags and mail tospide.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
BR715-A1-30
Posts: 6525
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 9:30 am

RE: Ramp Rat Revenge

Sun May 30, 2004 1:15 pm

I believe that while working a flight, Team should be in mind. You should think of EVERYTHING but yourself including:

1. Making it just as easy for the person offloading the bags as it was to the person loading them
2. The passenger would like their bags intact

Among many others, Shift happens, but I agree... Please work as a team.
Puhdiddle
 
pilotntrng
Posts: 679
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 8:13 pm

RE: Ramp Rat Revenge

Sun May 30, 2004 1:21 pm

L-188 I hear ya man,

I used to get flat stacked, handles turned in, etc. on 757's, 727's, 737's, MD-88s, etc. when I was in CHS working with DGS.

It should be a Team effort, I agree with you BR715. Too bad, few others think that way.


Brad
Booooo Lois, Yaaaa Beer!!!
 
je89_w
Crew
Posts: 2070
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 1:29 pm

RE: Ramp Rat Revenge

Sun May 30, 2004 1:30 pm

1. Making it just as easy for the person offloading the bags as it was to the person loading them
2. The passenger would like their bags intact


Agreed.

There was one time I was in the viewing mall of Terminal 1 at SIN, watching a CA B763 get ready for departure while the baggage handlers were loading the last load of luggages into the B763. Yep, the guy literally just tossed the bags into the plane, as if it was a bag of trash, into a pile of other luggages. I was wondering whether this was common or not.
 
An-225
Posts: 3859
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2000 2:55 am

RE: Ramp Rat Revenge

Sun May 30, 2004 1:35 pm

I know that when we have planes come in from LAX, it's a nightmare to unload. Those guys probably never heard of System Loading Standards - everything is mixed up and everything is a mess.

Alex.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
pilotntrng
Posts: 679
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 8:13 pm

RE: Ramp Rat Revenge

Sun May 30, 2004 1:35 pm

Je89 w,


That is a common occurance. I can't lie, I have gotten pretty mad at some baggage before. The way some folk pack, is very ridiculous. One thing I will take from this job, is NOT to pack breakables lol.
Booooo Lois, Yaaaa Beer!!!
 
jjbiv
Posts: 1203
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2001 10:58 am

RE: Ramp Rat Revenge

Sun May 30, 2004 2:29 pm

Get it in the right bin, don't break the bag, and push on-time. That's the name of the game for a hub ramper. They have too much going on to be turning handles and I don't blame them. Field city folks should give them a break every chance we get -- the favor will be returned more over, even if not directly. When the hub is happy, everyone is happy.

joe
 
Av8trxx
Posts: 632
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2001 7:08 am

RE: Ramp Rat Revenge

Mon May 31, 2004 1:15 am

When Morris Air was around it was really BAD. They used to send in the 737-300s with 125-150 bags with all the handles turned to the back wall and the bags stacked edge to edge along the curve of the floor (not edge over edge like a brick wall). You couldn't get your hands in between the bags to pull them out and with that curved stack as all the weight bears down on the bags so they didn't come out easy. Morris used Hudson is SLC and they were just evil about doing that. I think some get their kicks knowing they are screwing the downline. Others are just plain stupid and don't even know how stupid they are. It never ceases to amaze me when I open the bin and find 30 bags at the bulkhead. (With the 3 transfer bags buried somewhere under it all.) Why do they put so much effort into slinging the bags so far back from the door???? I know they don't want to work THAT hard, so it must be they LIKE being a$$holes to their fellow rampers. As a former training coordinator I used to say, 'You can pay them to do a job but you can't pay them to give a $@#*!'

Speaking of revenge, the last Delta flight out of SAN before they reassigned their rampers and then contracted out had all the tags ripped off the bags and freeloaded in a 767. How about that for being jerks? Like making the pax mad is going to help.
 
User avatar
wjv04
Posts: 547
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2001 12:18 pm

RE: Ramp Rat Revenge

Mon May 31, 2004 1:32 am

Emery Worldwide
Dayton and Kansas city.
We get flights in calgary from both of those locations. Everyday regardless of volume levels we get 11 AAA containers. Most of the time 8 of them are utilized with freight. And the rest are empty. However they still cram the bellys full of freight. Most of this freight in the bellys are multi peice shipments that were on skids that 90% of the time not all the peices are there but in a container on top deck. Often times the load plan says 1000lbs in rear belly will in fact end up being 3000lbs.
Often times we will get perhaps 2 containers with freight, and the rest of the 9 containers are empty, but still the belly is jammed full of loose freight that again were on skids that should have been put on contaniers.

And then of course theres our outbound flights. We allways use as many cans as we can, and never use the belly, unless its a extreme circumstance.
 
sprxflySWA
Posts: 587
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:37 am

RE: Ramp Rat Revenge

Mon May 31, 2004 1:38 am

Here in BOI, we used to screw around and get screwed by GEG. Their early AM GEG-BOI-RNO-LAX trip would have about 10 BOI bags in rear bin of 737 against the wall, or have thru bags in front of them.
Our last flight from BOI goes to GEG, so it was really sweet working a double and actually being the one to "get back" at them.(Of course those AM guys were long gone). Usually we only had 5-15 bags, so put some up front, reset scattered around the rear.

But that was awhile ago and it doesn't happen now. It seems now we just have some places (OAK) that must have an obsession with mixing local and transfer luggage. Oh well, pretty tame nowadays.
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Ramp Rat Revenge

Mon May 31, 2004 2:17 am

When I worked @ FL, we used to get all sorts of screwed up loading by the outstations. Local bags mixed in with transfer bags, local bags buried by mail or cargo, transfer bags buried by mail or cargo, bags that were staying onboard, and split bins (part of the local or transfer bags being put in the rear bins even though there was plenty of room in the front bins [this may or may not have been a request by the pilots, but usually when that happened, transfers would be put in one bin, locals in another]). We really didn't do much in terms of revenge @ ATL, because all of the bags we were sending out were local bags. We'd sometimes bury the bags with mail, and a few times we rigged it up so that it looked like the bin was full, even though there was only a handful of pax onboard. When FL used to work F9 flights, they'd give the ramp crew a load plan to follow, DEN bags in one bin, transfer bags in another, mail in another, and bags to where the a/c was continuing on to from DEN in another bin.

Same was true @ EV as well, everything would get mixed up.
 
Blackbird1331
Posts: 1740
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 10:47 am

RE: Ramp Rat Revenge

Mon May 31, 2004 2:43 am

Where were the supervisors, pulling off the tags? It should not be that difficult to find out who loaded which aircraft. This is actually a crimanal act in that it is a theft of service against the employers. It is just a matter of someone pressing charges. Those guys are lucky they do not have me looking over their shoulders.
Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
 
Av8trxx
Posts: 632
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2001 7:08 am

RE: Ramp Rat Revenge

Mon May 31, 2004 2:51 am

"It seems...some places (OAK) ...must have an obsession with mixing local and transfer luggage."

I think it's something in the air up there in the Bay area. SMF, SJC & OAK all do it. Lazy I guess. They like that back wall a lot too. Even on single destination flights. I always taught my rookies to never send out a flight they didn't want to work themselves. Wouldn't it be nice if everyone did that?
 
Jumpseat70
Posts: 359
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2004 12:52 am

RE: Ramp Rat Revenge

Mon May 31, 2004 3:15 am

As a Baggage Service Agent for Delta Airlines, I often feel like most of our problems could be alleviated if we allowed some of the rampers to work just one weekend in the office, especially at night. They could "feel" the pain and might rethink their actions. I can't believe that the rampers consciously damage bags or tear off tags. If I thought that, I would have to quit, because I would be lieing to my customers by defending the rampers as I frequently do. I have to believe they are doing the best they can.
"Up, Up and away with TWA"
 
elwood64151
Posts: 2410
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2002 10:22 am

RE: Ramp Rat Revenge

Mon May 31, 2004 3:22 am

At Vanguard, we frequently got flights in from DFW and LAX where the bins made absolutley no sense whatsoever. DL operated our ramp at both stations, and we had one helluva time figuring out what to do. We finally got to the point where all thru bags were checked and restacked in the adjoining bin. That took care of our missing local and transfer bags.

We also had a problem with bags not making the flight, even on low-load flights (say, 45% load factor out of DFW, or 60% out of LAX). They'd come in on the next flight, and we'd have to spend thousands of dollars a month to get the bags to their owners.

Since we were the hub @ MCI, we couldn't do much to either station as a way of payback. We knew that if we loaded the bags handle-in, we'd probably end up pulling a bag, so we just put up with it for over a year. If we'd gotten the ATSB loan, there was talk about setting up our own ramp at some outstations, though DFW and LAX were not on the list of candidates that I'd heard. DEN and ATL were the two I heard most often.

Luckily, we had our own ramp as a hold-over from the mini-hub days at MDW. They always treated us right. Hope that night flight MCI-MDW-BUF got to them okay (I was a morning guy).
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
m404
Posts: 1875
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:43 pm

RE: Ramp Rat Revenge

Mon May 31, 2004 5:54 am

That's a bummer and it sounds like its being done on purpose but the really sad thing is that it seems that you feel you have no official recourse but to put in here as a gripe. By that I mean that so many of these interline/express carrier agreement are screwed up working relationships because of lousy communications. You need to get with your station manager and find out the lines of communication between the workers involved. If it takes an official write up, so be it. But a word of caution. Find out if this is some form of retaliation for a perceived slight from your end - say another shift.

From the particular incident you described I would have to say it was due to a change of aircraft after the first plane was loaded. How else would carryons be under the checked? They may have used two carts to carry each type separately but then reversed the loading. Whoever was in the bay does not know ramp etiquette about the handles OR is just too ticked of about his own discomfort to care about yours or the pax.

But first make a call to the station to make a polite inquiry then, if no results, make it official.

Besides, I can pretty much bet that folks who pulkl this stuff don't read an "enthusiats" site like this.
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 
pilotntrng
Posts: 679
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 8:13 pm

E: Ramp Rat Revenge

Mon May 31, 2004 2:58 pm

M404,

I agree with you. I brought this to the site, because it was something I thought that the aviation community would think was interesting and see if I could get some insight from some of the ramp folks out there. It is a shame that people do this, but it happens. I just grit my teeth and get the bags out as quickly as I can. Thanks for the response. Oh yeah and we do complain, but when we do it just gets worse. When I was with Delta (DGS) , if the planes came in like that you can send what is called a bin load discrepency, but all that does it makes it worse lol.


Regards

Brad
Booooo Lois, Yaaaa Beer!!!
 
smcmac32msn
Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 9:25 am

Ramp Rat Revenge

Mon May 31, 2004 3:25 pm

When we contracted out to CO and US in MSN, CLE & PIT knew that we were a contract so they would constantly put the 'checked carry-on' bags under the regular bags so that we'd have to unbury them to give to customers waiting on the ramp (US) or in the jet bridge (CO). So, we finally decided one night to mix the thru and local bags into a wall at the centerline of the fuselage and put the carryons behind it. In the last 3 months after we pulled that stunt that one night, they always have everything very orderly until US pulled out of MSN and CO hired their own ground crew.

PS - CO hiring their own ground crew was part of a new labor agreement.
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
elwood64151
Posts: 2410
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2002 10:22 am

RE: Ramp Rat Revenge

Mon May 31, 2004 11:20 pm

if the planes came in like that you can send what is called a bin load discrepency, but all that does it makes it worse lol.

Hopefully, if corporate gets enough "blips" from your load discrepancies, they'll go looking into the outstations or hub or wherever the planes are coming from and try to figure out what the Hell is going on, especially if bags are getting missed or planes are late as a result.

We couldn't do that at NJ because they would have just changed the contract to another airline that wouldn't have cared, either.

So, we finally decided one night to mix the thru and local bags into a wall at the centerline of the fuselage and put the carryons behind it.

This can come back in your face, as the station you're retaliating against might file a complaint. Sort of the pot and the kettle thing. Also happened with my crew at NJ.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.

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