kwbl
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Horizon Looking @ SLE?

Sun May 30, 2004 1:50 pm

I read in the Statesman Journal that Horizon is looking into the possibility of flying from Salem, OR to SEA. Salem has filed for a $680,000 grant to help lure QX. It's far from a done deal but at least they are working on it. This would save me alot of time! SLE is the largest metro area in the NW and probably one of the larger metro areas in the nation without scheduled air service (some lump SLE into the PDX metro area but it really is a separate are).
 
charlib52
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RE: Horizon Looking @ SLE?

Sun May 30, 2004 2:12 pm

Interesting -- didn't they used to serve SLE at one time?

Of course, the same thing could be said about Everett (PAE) and South Snohomish county in the Seattle area -- larger population (250k+) and catchment area than many commercial destinations today. But commercial service never seems to work, they're stuck driving an hour to Sea-Tac... because of NIMBY's and economics.

-GMW
 
Leneld
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RE: Horizon Looking @ SLE?

Sun May 30, 2004 2:23 pm

Yes Horizon use to fly 3 flights a day from PDX........
 
JetRanger2000
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RE: Horizon Looking @ SLE?

Sun May 30, 2004 2:25 pm

Yes they used to serve SLE up untill the end of the 1980s from SEA as I recall.

An SEA-SLE flight can be seen in the movie "WarGames" actually. The kid in that movie had to fly to Salem to find the creator of WOPR.
 
rsmith6621a
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RE: Horizon Looking @ SLE?

Sun May 30, 2004 2:26 pm



Next request will be for QX to do non-stop SLE/DEN service.
Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
 
kwbl
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RE: Horizon Looking @ SLE?

Sun May 30, 2004 2:50 pm

QX left SLE in 1994. They operated anywhere from 1 to 3 flights per day to PDX on metros. Occasionally, flights from PDX tp SLE would continue on to LMT, NBC or Redding, CA. The flights were generally poorly timed for connections and the flights performed poorly. Nonstops to SEA however would be much better than PDX (quicker to drive to PDX). I hope to see this come to fruition
 
DSMav8r
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RE: Horizon Looking @ SLE?

Sun May 30, 2004 4:18 pm

The Salem airport filed for an DOT Small Community Air Service Development Grant, which specifically states that they intend to lure back QX. This doesn't mean it will happen, several other airports have tried to lure carriers using this grant (if they are lucky enough to be awarded one), most have been unsuccessful at doing so.

If you want to read up on the proposal, it is available on the DOT Docket (OST-2004-17343).
To most people, the sky is the limit. To those who love aviation, the sky is home
 
fightingdingo
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RE: Horizon Looking @ SLE?

Mon May 31, 2004 4:55 am

Just for fun I made up a possible schedule that Horizon could use if it served SLE. Let me know what you think.

Flight# Departs Time Arives Time
1 SEA 7:00am PDX 7:45am
PDX 8:00am SLE 8:20am

2 SLE 8:33am PDX 8:53am
PDX 9:08am SEA 9:58am

3 SEA 4:00pm SLE 5:00pm

4 SLE 5:15pm PDX 5:35pm
SEA 5:50pm SEA 6:35pm


[Edited 2004-05-30 22:10:29]
 
flashmeister
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RE: Horizon Looking @ SLE?

Mon May 31, 2004 5:44 am

SLE could do well, but QX has to connect folks south too, for it to be successful. People in Salem are *SO* trained to drive to PDX, plus Amtrak's Cascades service is always getting more popular, so without offering a way north AND south, I don't think it'll catch on that well. Perhaps SLE-MFR-SFO or LAX? There's already MFR-LAX service, right?

As for QX SLE-DEN, I think we'd see QX doing EUG-DEN for Frontier JetExpress first.
 
StevenUhl777
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RE: Horizon Looking @ SLE?

Mon May 31, 2004 6:10 am

Hopefully they'll start service (again) to SLE but also do a PAE-PDX flight like what was discussed pre-9/11. That would be heaven-sent for me, as I live 2 miles from PAE.

As for SLE, there's a lot of college students who attend OSU, Western Oregon in Monmouth, and my alma-mater Willamette U. in downtown Salem who are from the Seattle-area. I think just for that market segment, the flight would do well, and probably part of the reason why the route is being pursued.

I would agree that cities south of SLE should also have flights in...possibly from the Bay Area. Again, a lot of students who attend the three universities I mentioned are from California. There's a lot of potential for this to work, if it's marketed correctly. I would recommend selling large blocks of tickets to the universities and local businesses, similar to the approach used to get the LH flight.


And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
fightingdingo
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RE: Horizon Looking @ SLE?

Mon May 31, 2004 7:27 am

I think that a SLE-PDX-SEA and a SLE-RDD-SFO or LAX would work out well. Maybe America West Express wil have a SLE-LAS-PHX in the future.
 
flashmeister
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RE: Horizon Looking @ SLE?

Mon May 31, 2004 9:13 am

Even considering the state offices and the colleges, I just don't see a burning need for SLE service still. I think that QX has an uphill battle here... especially since fares from SLE via SEA to other points will be more expensive (most likely) than from PDX.
 
sprxflySWA
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RE: Horizon Looking @ SLE?

Mon May 31, 2004 9:30 am

Correct title should be "Salem looking @ Horizon". Because SLE is where the $$ will come from and SLE really has no other good airline options to fill the needs they want.

Any PDX-SLE route or add-on route is a mistake. It just adds on time to any SLE originating pax and there would not be many connections, I believe.

I think 2/3 Salem-Seattle nonstops with first an originating flight.
Then, 2/3 Salem-Medford-SFO trips on DH4. With the last flight from the South being the terminating flight.

As for an above post, the correct code for North Bend/Coos Bay,OR is OTH, not NBC.

I see Salem as having a small catchment area. Anyone a bit North will still go for PDX and any South will use Eugene.

Maybe they should get behind a real small Navajo operator and offer 6 flights a day North and 6 South.
Anyway, if QX flies to SLE, when the city's money stops, so will the flights.

That is my take on the situation in Salem.
 
flashmeister
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RE: Horizon Looking @ SLE?

Mon May 31, 2004 9:34 am

Wasn't there a small Air Taxi-ish operator who tried out of Salem to points in Eastern Oregon and on the Coast a couple of years ago? Not sure what the name of the outfit was, but I remember hearing of them going under...
 
sprxflySWA
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RE: Horizon Looking @ SLE?

Mon May 31, 2004 9:42 am

Was that the small, quasi-scheduled outfit that was called "Sky Taxi" or something? They would charge a lot for trips to selected airports, but less if you made additional stops.

I also remember a Navajo outfit, "PacificAir" of Corvallis that flew CVO-PDX for a short time in 1994 or 1995. I don't know why some people think CVO is a good place to fly a scheduled operation into. Harbor was the last to try , I think.

I just looked up Sky Taxi, http://www.skytaxi.com and it is still active. Just seemed like a "non-good" way to run an operation. Anybody here ever use it ?

[Edited 2004-05-31 02:46:09]
 
seb146
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RE: Horizon Looking @ SLE?

Mon May 31, 2004 10:48 am

There have been many airlines trying to serve the smaller towns in Western Oregon. They had flights from PDX to Astoria, Newport, Corvallis and Salem. A Salem flight would lose money. There are already many shuttle vans and Amtrak Cascades trains that run between Salem and Portland that are cheaper than a ticket would be on QX.

But if they insist, let them also look at Olympia-Spokane service again too  Insane

GO CANUCKS!!
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fightingdingo
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RE: Horizon Looking @ SLE?

Mon May 31, 2004 12:30 pm

Well certainly SLE could not support many flights, but I think it could support one flight a day to San Fransisco or Los Angeles via a southern Oregon or Northern California city. Also it could probably support a SLE-PDX-SEA route. There are connections out of PDX and SEA on Alaska and it's codesharing partners. Maybe Horizon could get some Beech 1900's and expand it's service to more cities. Just a thought.
 
NWDC10
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RE: Horizon Looking @ SLE?

Mon May 31, 2004 12:48 pm

It has to be Big Sky Airlines from SLE-SEA. Merto 3. Qx won't get smaller a/c for such a route. Robert NWDC10
 
fightingdingo
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RE: Horizon Looking @ SLE?

Mon May 31, 2004 12:53 pm

I don't think that a lone SLE-SEA route on Big Sky would do well. Travelers would have to change airlines in SEA to connect to other cities. This would be too much of an inconvenience. If an airline does come to SLE it must be convenient for the travelers and worth the extra money for them to fly.
 
LineMechQX
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RE: Horizon Looking @ SLE?

Mon May 31, 2004 1:36 pm

I don't see a SLE-SEA working for QX. We've had to cut back at and even drop a couple of markets recently due to customers willing to do more driving( CLM , MWH ). 3 flights a day isn't convenient enough for business travelers, and pleasure travelers don't pay enough and would rather drive to PDX. Not to mention our airplanes are stretched right now with half the CR7 fleet in Frontier Livery, Q400's taking up some of the jet routes, and the Q200's trying their best to fill in for the Q400's. Rumor is of course we're trying to work out a deal for more Q400's, just rumors though. Only time will tell though. I wouldn't expect anything at all till summer flying season is over.

Late
PC
 
prosa
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RE: Horizon Looking @ SLE?

Mon May 31, 2004 1:56 pm

An SEA-SLE flight can be seen in the movie "WarGames" actually. The kid in that movie had to fly to Salem to find the creator of WOPR.

The scene was filmed at BFI.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
Tennisace
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RE: Horizon Looking @ SLE?

Mon May 31, 2004 2:23 pm

Just to add my two cents worth, I don't believe SLE even has much of a passenger terminal. I think all there is, is an old wooden terminal building that is probably from the 50's or 60's. It's got to be all of a couple thousand square feet max. Any airline (or the City of Salem?) would have to invest in some reno's/expansion of the building first.
 
S12PPL
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RE: Horizon Looking @ SLE?

Mon May 31, 2004 2:38 pm

As much as I would LOVE to see airline service again out of SLE, it just isn't something that could work right now, I don't think. The reason? There is no way QX could offer cheaper fares than AS or QX offers out of PDX to LAX, SFO, OAK, DEN, etc. It just couldn't work. Not now at least. Let the economy pick up maybe.
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
searpqx
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RE: Horizon Looking @ SLE?

Mon May 31, 2004 3:15 pm

Actually, QX (or any other carrier) doesn't need to match or undercut the fares from PDX. They can actually charge more, they just need to make the additional cost of flying from SLE less than the real and/or perceived cost of traveling to PDX by car. QX already does this in numerous markets, such as BLI, YKM, EAT, etc. For example, RT fare in mid-October from SEA to LAX is 285, from BLI is $405. That's $60 additional each way from BLI, which when you factor in gas, insurance, time and parking (along w/ the stress of traveling the I-5 corridor), enough people are willing to pay to justify seven flights a day.

The difference is SLE is about 50 miles from PDX, a little more than half again closer than any other city served out of either PDX or SEA. I honestly don't believe they could make the above ratio work out profitably, leaving only the option of SEA service. I can tell you from my days in RES, folks in central Oregon don't like the idea of flying north to fly south (where the bulk of AS's connecting opportunities are), which means you're likely only going to be catching those heading north or east, a fraction of your potential connecting traffic.

Rgds
Duane
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
kwbl
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RE: Horizon Looking @ SLE?

Mon May 31, 2004 4:15 pm

actually, SLE is about 65 miles from PDX airport. A good portion of Salemites are over 1 hour away. I think SLE could easily support several DH8 to SEA a day (3 or 4). It is a matter of retraining the Salem pax to use the service. Salem has never had air service that was really designed to capture any market share. Willamette U did a study several years ago and there were over 250,000 pax per year in the Salem catchment area (that does not include inbound pax from other cities). In the past when SLE did have air service, the schedule was terrible. UA had a noon flgiht to PDX which connected to LAX, DEN, ORD, SFO & SEA. The afternoon flight was routed to SFO via MFR. QX, as I have mentioned before had only 1 or 2 flights per day for most of the time they were here-poorly timed for connections (even intra-line), poorly marketed & expensive.

QX is really a different airline nowadays. They have a better reputation than they did 10 years ago (not that they had a bad one but right now they are an excellent regional carrier). I think routing the flights through PDX would be a huge mistake. NS to SEA (which is what the city is shooting for) stands an excellent chance (schedule and price permitting) to doing well. Southbound flights could also do well and even 1x per day to DEN could work, but let's not get ahead of ourselves!! As for the terminal in Salem, it could be one of the worst commercial facilities in the nation-it would only be OK for a termporary operation until a new terminal (which I believe is in the master plan) could be built. If it happens, I think it has tremendous potential.
 
SEAPete
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RE: Horizon Looking @ SLE?

Mon May 31, 2004 6:18 pm

I frequently travel from Seattle to Salem on the train. It would be nice to have a direct airline connection. Over the years I've studied the price/time cost of flying vs train. If you fly you'll save about an hour over the train with security requirements and getting from PDX to Salem There's a bus-like thing that terminates at the Salem Airport. The price is about doule, so It just isn't worth flying now. A flight direct from SEA would only be about an hour and would cut the trip time roughly in half. I'd expect the price structure to be similar to SEA-EUG. That would make flying more attractive than the train. They really need to crank up the speed on those trains they are built to go another 50mph... oops airliners.net not fasttrains.net... Laugh out loud

Cheers!

Pete
SEA No other place like it
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
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RE: Horizon Looking @ SLE?

Tue Jun 01, 2004 1:22 am

Quite awhile back, QX even operated a "codeshare" of sorts SLE-PDX with Hut Limousine service, where their vehicles were given an AS-designated "flight" number and inventories were sold via the GDS.

SLE customers whined quite a bit about it, as you can imagine.

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
fightingdingo
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RE: Horizon Looking @ SLE?

Tue Jun 01, 2004 1:30 am

If you lived in Salem and had all the right permits and licenses you could operate an airline flying passengers from SLE to PDX or SEA. That would be really neat. You could operate your own plane and charge what you want. How well would that work out. Would the owner of the airline make a profit. I think something like this would work better than Horizon coming to SLE.
 
flashmeister
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RE: Horizon Looking @ SLE?

Tue Jun 01, 2004 9:55 am

SLE-DEN? Won't happen, IMHO. I would bet that the agreement with F9 has something to say about QX operating flights for itself (or AS or anyone else, really) out of DEN. Notice that all other QX service to DEN has been dropped (BOI is gone, PDX went to AS mainline).

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