targowski
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:57 am

FAT-ORD On UA: Will It Happen?

Tue Jun 01, 2004 5:18 pm

wondering when UA will get around to do this route, should be plenty of traffic. can they do it with a RJ? i'm tired of connecting.
 
flyboy7974
Posts: 1210
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2003 4:35 pm

RE: FAT-ORD On UA: Will It Happen?

Tue Jun 01, 2004 5:26 pm

are you joking here about this, mainline tried denver once, dumped it, and now i think rj fly it. there are many more routes that would support ord traffic before fat would ever see it
 
FLY777UAL
Posts: 4830
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 3:49 am

RE: FAT-ORD On UA: Will It Happen?

Tue Jun 01, 2004 5:27 pm

Possible, especially with the new EMB-170's coming online. Where is Republic going to use those?

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L
 
InnocuousFox
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: FAT-ORD On UA: Will It Happen?

Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:03 am

There are too many obvious connecting points in the west (DEN, SFO, LAX) to bother doing trans-cons from a smaller market such as FAT.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
7e72004
Posts: 3440
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:15 am

RE: FAT-ORD On UA: Will It Happen?

Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:06 am

dumb question...but what airport is "FAT?"
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
InnocuousFox
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: FAT-ORD On UA: Will It Happen?

Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:16 am

Hover over it with your mouse, silly! You have made 770 posts and you haven't noticed that?  Big grin
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 4446
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: FAT-ORD On UA: Will It Happen?

Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:33 am

Current FAT-ORD O&D runs about 43,000 per year. Compare that to the current FAT-DEN O&D which is only about 30,000. That, of course, is without the estimated 40-50% driveaways seeking lower fares at other airports.

Fresno plays an important role in filling seats out of SFO and LAX for many airlines. I think it will take someone else coming into FAT to get UA to notice the potential market. In the meantime why start a flight when passengers will drive to you at another airport.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
DFWJIM
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 7:00 am

Mouse

Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:38 am

Innocouous Fox,

After trying to figure out some of the three letter code codes I have now been enlightened  Smile/happy/getting dizzy.
 
InnocuousFox
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: FAT-ORD On UA: Will It Happen?

Wed Jun 02, 2004 4:53 am

"Current FAT-ORD O&D runs about 43,000 per year. Compare that to the current FAT-DEN O&D which is only about 30,000."

However, those figures are so comperable as to be largely irrelevant. Most of the fliers on those flights are NOT going to be O&D traffic for either DEN or ORD but rather connecting passengers. If you connect in Denver, you still make it reasonable to be travelling to areas between Denver and Chicago and beyond. If you connect in Chicago, it makes progressively less sense to backtrack to the rest of the plains, especially the southern plains and Texas.

Of course, the possibility exists to simple ADD flights to/from ORD in addition to the ones that would use SFO, LAX or DEN. However, at that point, you are stealing loads from those flights, thereby forcing you to use smaller, less efficient aircraft to serve the same number of people.

On a multi-hub network such as UA, the proper balance of a mid-sized city is to only connect to 2 (possibly 3) hubs. In the case of Omaha, we are dead center between ORD and DEN. It is obvious for us to connect to both so the passenger can select the connecting city based on ultimate direction of travel. On a city on the periphery such as FAT, however, it makes sense to connect to the one or two that lead in the direction of the rest of destinations but without stepping over too many of them.

It is for this reason that UA's hub network is the most efficiently laid out one in the States. Using IAD, ORD, DEN and SFO and/or LAX, they have perfectly overlapping areas of control so that it is likely possible to travel any mid-sized or lower O&D pair with no more than 2 connections (Feeder-Hub-Hub-Feeder) - and likely only one connection in many cases (Feeder-Hub-Feeder).
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 4446
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: FAT-ORD On UA: Will It Happen?

Wed Jun 02, 2004 5:28 am

My figures are separate from the connecting traffic. Those are the O&D to DEN and ORD themselves, not continuing on through the hub to other destinations.

Adding a flight may not simply steal from existing service since you could also see market stimulation from the non-stop service itself. For example one case would be if passengers feel that connecting flights may be prone to delays and misconnects. They may chose to travel to an airport that provides a non-stop flight. In effect they are becoming their own feeder for the airline. A new non-stop service may draw those customers back to an airport.

In the case of UA at Fresno, delays at SFO or LAX cause some travellers to choose to protect their travel by driving the 4 hours to those airports (or other alternates) to start their flights.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain