blhp68
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US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:33 am

I heard earlier that US Airways was beginning to adopt a point to point strategy. Supposedly they are going to downsize their PIT hub and fly more point to point routes that are profitable. What routes do they plan to fly? I know being from MCI we lack N/S to BOS, RDU, as well as southern Florida. All of those routes have the potential to be profitable. The gates are there at MCI to expand. That was just a thought, any other potential routes from other cities?
 
iowaman
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:46 am

They can try all they want, charge 800 bucks for P2P service form MCI to BOS or wherever but unless they lower there costs, it's just another failure
 
elwood64151
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 am

The gates are there at MCI to expand, but it does have n/s service to Florida on Southwest:

3xMCO
1xTPA + 1xWeekly

As for BOS & RDU, several airlines have tried to serve these routes, and they just aren't profitable. I think this is the principle reason for hubs, actually.

I recently did a study on the personal income of certain population centers, and found that while BOS is a huge metro at over 5,000,000 people, only 1,923,000 are in the labor force.

That means less than 40% of the people living in the Boston GMSA work, while the number nation-wide is closer to 50%. This means that Boston is at a significant disadvantage to other areas when attracting business, including air traffic. Raleigh, OTOH, has a personal income of less than 80% of Kansas City's.

Of course, this doesn't account for total economic impact, but it will seriously affect leisure travel numbers, which account for a significant amount of any airline's revenues.

Just some thoughts on that.

By the way, I'd rather MCI's extra gates were used by new-entrants like B6 and Independence Air or some other new carrier than to expand service by an existing airline.

By the way, nothing but respect for US's people at MCI. Met some good people while I was there with FL (we shared facilities).

[Edited 2004-06-02 04:53:23]
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:53 am

I can see MCI-BOS as US does serve DCA-MCI (actually, it's US Express- YV), but MCI-RDU seems a little far-fetched. Did NJ run this route when it existed? Increasing P2P from BOS, DCA, and potentially MCO and other Florida cities makes sense. There's a heck of a lot more O&D potential in BOS and WAS than in PIT (or CLT, for that matter), and BOS lacks a hub. US always has exemplary service and I hope they pull through, but only time will tell. Maybe if they sent those 757s over the pond a la CO...

[Edited 2004-06-02 05:22:23]
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
MSYtristar
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:56 am

NJ never operated MCI-RDU. Closest we came was MYR.

Steve/MSY
 
blhp68
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Wed Jun 02, 2004 12:07 pm

Elwood:

I was referring to southern Florida, MIA, FLL. When I worked as an intern at MCI last summer the marketing dept. was pushing hard for N/S down to that area.

BOS-MCI according to the latest DOT stats, over 200 people daily fly that route. I understand that it may not be profitable, it just seems like BOS is one of those major cities you need N/S service to.

RDU-MCI, might be a little far fetched, I guess when Southwest pulled out that pretty much signals that no carrier could make it on that route.

At the completion of the Renovation of the terminals, there will be roughly about 15 gates throughout the three terminals. I know they are working to attract new carriers, we will have to wait and see if the economy can improve though.

I am sorry, I didn't mean for this to be a MCI thread. What do you think about the strategy? What routes will work? Will the strategy work? Or will US Airways be selling those brand new EMB 170 within the next 2 yrs due to a complete fold of the business?
 
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ERJ170
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Wed Jun 02, 2004 9:48 pm

Being from RDU, I would have to agree that the RDU-MCI is a little far fetched. There doesn't seem to be the traffic, business or leisure, that would be going to MIC from RDU. There just aren't enough business ties from RDU. Most airlines realize that RDU traffic is 50/50 business/leisure.. so they have to find markets that cater to both....

However, RDU-LAX, RDU-MKE, RDU-JAX, RDU-BUF, RDU-MSY, RDU-BHM, RDU-Charleston WV, and even RDU-IND would work... but none of those have vaporized either... yet. The possibilities are endless...
Aiming High and going far..
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Wed Jun 02, 2004 9:58 pm

They are already doing a lot of point to point out of MCO. They fly to DCA, ALB, BUF, and a few other northeastern cities along with somewhere in the Caribean.
 
Womack17
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:47 pm

Midwest tried RDU-MKE for several years and then downsized to the Skyway FRJ's after 9/11 - I miss that service. Fantastic flights every time and the food was exquisite. Sure do miss the Midwest DC9's
Oh how I miss Midway Airlines. A class act right to then end.
 
kbuf737
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:55 pm

The AA and Midway flights to RDU were quite popular when they served BUF, however AA closed RDU hub, which left us high and dry until Midway came. They operated daily RJs and it was quite popular, great little airline from what I understood. However Midway went under as well, and now we are without RDU service. WN and AA could pick the ball up, AA with RJ's now. If not, opportunity knocks for US.

Fly High, Fly Proud.

-KBUF737
The tower? Rapunzel!!!!!!
 
desertjets
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:36 pm

I still believe that USAirway's P2P strategy will be almost exclusively confined to DCA, LGA, and BOS, with a couple of others thrown in for good measure. Routes like Raleigh-KC or Boston-KC seem a bit far fetched. Some Florida P2P could be a possibility, but it seems more and more that the LCCs may have just beaten US to most of the decent city pairs.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
SD330PSU
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:03 am

I believe you will still see quite a few PIT - point to point services after the hub is downgraded. Examples like LAX, LAS, SAN, MIA, ORD, DEN, SEA, AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA. Maybe a few more as well.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Fri Jun 04, 2004 9:25 am

Given that US is weak on the West Coast (intentionally) and that the UA codeshare exists, I doubt that PIT will see service to anywhere west of ORD, with the possible exception of DEN for further western feed. PIT-AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA also seems a little far-fetched. The O&D there would be minimal and US is deemphasizing PIT as a place for connections.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
pgh234
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Fri Jun 04, 2004 10:49 am

Along with multiple daily DEN flights (more than we have now), I think PIT should very easily be able to fill 1-2 daily LAX and/or SFO flights, maybe a little more when figuring in *A Connection opportunities at both LAX and SFO. Possibly also a SEA, PHX, and LAS.

As for these "other" point to points, I too have no idea where they might go outside of additional PHL, LGA, BOS, DCA to Caribbean/Florida/South America? LCC's have taken care of almost everything? Maybe an RDU-west coast? Hardly enough to cover for the downfall of PIT

pgh234
 
LambertMan
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Fri Jun 04, 2004 11:26 am

I'm not sure why everyone is speculating about far fetched flights from RDU or flights like PIT-AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA (The Bayer argument is getting extremely old BTW), they have practically told us what their strategy is in one press release. DCA, LGA, and BOS will see almost all of the growth as they are the surest bet that US has at this time. They are in no position to start stuff like RDU-BHM or RDU-CRW.....
 
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ERJ170
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Fri Jun 04, 2004 11:36 am

Agreed, they are long shots.. but what you will read from what I posted is that the other cities mentioned have better odds than a RDU-MCI route. Not that those routes should be any priority over any other.. we gotta stop the RDU hating now..
Aiming High and going far..
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Fri Jun 04, 2004 11:36 am

what about LGA-CRW? new york is a large O&D market in CRW, and CRW-RDU would be profitable. Do you work for US or something?
 
LambertMan
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Fri Jun 04, 2004 11:41 am

I'm not hating, look, I even said PIT won't get AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA. Big grin

The routes you mention ERJ are completely out in left field for this topic, maybe if Midway 14 wanted to start back up out of RDU they would consider those routes.

LGA-CRW could be a possibility, a long shot however....
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Fri Jun 04, 2004 11:57 am

i swear, CRW is totally neglected as far as airlines, some dont realize the possibilities it holds.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:01 pm

I agree with you Kcrwflyer... It is a virtual untapped market...
Aiming High and going far..
 
LambertMan
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:06 pm

I think you are getting a bit ahead of youreslf Kcrwflyer, it's only 25000 and you have flights to PIT, CLE, CLT, PHL, DTW, CVG, ORD etc. I mean, thats not half bad for an area that big.

I'm not sure what possibilities it holds.....
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:18 pm

25000 , What??? you think that's the population? Whats that number mean? and even if you mean 250000, the population area that yeager serves is closer to 600,000 because we get passengers from HTS, BKW, LWB, CKB, and parkersburg. Basically the wole state. And with independence air coming, the passengers that drive to CMH or PIT will most likely come back. Also on the date that Indy Air comes, all airlines are lowering their fares.
 
N670UW
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:27 pm

CRW's metro population is about 306,000, and shrinking.

I agree with LambertMan. For an area of its size, CRW has a rather nice array of air service, with all of the network carriers except AA serving the area. I don't see all this "untapped market" you're talking about.

CRW also has service to IAD on UA Express and IAH on CO Express.


670
 
LambertMan
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:46 pm

Whoops, typo....

That was the figure I found on some random website so I'm not certain its correct.

Sounds like N670UW has some sense  Big grin

The fact of the matter of this post is that the strategy presented to us, p2p growth out of DCA, LGA and BOS. There isn't much debate about what their strategy is. I think that it is a good strategy, go with your bread and butter that you've had over the years and if you lose with that, at least you lost with your best effort. Sitting there and letting PIT bleed money away would have been a lackluster effort in my mind to save the company.

A. Do I think it will work?
Possibly, just too many intangibles for someone outside of the company to determine right now.

B. Do I think they will survive?
Sadly I think all signs point to no. I hope to be proved wrong however
 
alphascan
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:48 pm

CRW's largest O&D market is MCO with 52 passengers per day---26 each way.

Not a "wole" lot of potential there for non-hub nonstops with any type of aircraft.
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
LambertMan
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:59 pm

Thank you Alphascan,

Case and point.

The "untapped market", is completely tapped out. Big thumbs up

Not to be mean to the CRW lovers, but I'm just stating my opinion.
 
N670UW
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:28 pm

what about LGA-CRW? new york is a large O&D market in CRW

New York is not a large O&D market from CRW. I wouldn't call 43.84 passengers a day a large market.

That won't even fill an RJ, without connections. And that's depending on potential passengers not flying with other carriers (which won't happen).

I just feel CRW is served well with the service it has now.

Sounds like N670UW has some sense

Hey, I've got plenty of sense.  Nuts



670
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Fri Jun 04, 2004 9:01 pm

thats the metro pop. Im talking about the population it actually serves, and they will get about a 20 to 30% increase in traffic when indy air comes here, because many drive to colombus to fly WN. Also, where did you get that O&D count at alpha? My O&D count came from Rick atkinson, airport director.
 
kyair
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:36 am

Kcrwflyer:

CRW is a fine airport, used it several times. I agree that it serves a large area, not just Charleston metro. However, I also agree that it is very well served - better than most cities/airports it's size. BTW, what's the status of the regional Huntington/Charleston combo airport? CRW is limited on space for expansion and finding the dang thing is near impossible!!!
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened - Dr. Seuss
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Sat Jun 05, 2004 4:08 am

well the regional airport has been put on a back burner. Instead, the Port authority will develop Charlestons rivers, by building more riverside parks, docks, and shipping ports, ect... Personally, i think that tri state should be a cargo only airport, and yeager a passenger only airport, maybe one cargo flight, for critical delivery. The main issue is development for businesses around an airport, so HTS can close its passenger terminal and make it a cargo terminal. CRW has about 3 unused gates, those are quickly being taken up. but there are some parts of the day with one or two planes only at the gates, and some times there are about 10. And yes CRW does handle a good amount of air service compared to most airports of its size. Its almost like the Kai-Tak of Rj's.
 
alphascan
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Sat Jun 05, 2004 5:46 am


Article by Mike Boyd's organization on Regional Airport Concept in WV. (You won't like it Kcrwflyer)


http://www.aviationplanning.com/asrc1.htm
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Sun Jun 06, 2004 12:31 am

wont like it??? i love it. We dont need another airport, CRW is holodin it down, and HTS is floating now cus they just got those ground level scrunchie style rolling canopies that rool out from the terminal to the aircraft so u dont get wet. Has everyone here seen yeager airport before? if not i have an overhead picture of the terminal.

why would i not like that?
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Sun Jun 06, 2004 6:50 am

i apologize for my Instant messanger language back there, i was in a hurry.

But seriously, Why would i back ther Regional airport, or were you being sarcastic
 
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ERJ170
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Sun Jun 06, 2004 6:53 am

Does anyone know where USAirways is going with their P2P from LGA, BOS, DCA? Also include MCO, FLL, TPA... Any destinations anyone has heard of or rumored about? Will they be upgrading some of their Express to mainline?
Aiming High and going far..
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Sun Jun 06, 2004 10:56 am

express to mainline...no.. i e-maioled them and a woman called me back and we talked and all express will stay express, uprgades from props to rj's will occur
 
LambertMan
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Sun Jun 06, 2004 11:19 am

As for where USAirways will add routes, you would have to assume what you said erj(MCO, FLL, TPA) and numerous other Florida cities such as PBI, JAX, RSW, SRQ possibly. I think it has been publicized that the routes to Florida and the Carribbean are some of the only profitable mainline routes left in the system so look for the growth to be in those two areas...
 
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ERJ170
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Sun Jun 06, 2004 11:34 am

Actually, LambertMan, I have seen USAirways add destinations from those routes to places other than BOS, DCA, and LGA.. which is why I asked the question.. I was assuming that they would be doing more than just NE to Florida routes.. I could be wrong.. it wouldn't be the first time and it won't be the last..
Aiming High and going far..
 
flyboyaz
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Sun Jun 06, 2004 1:21 pm

US had a major point to point network back in the 80's....maybe they should have kept with it!
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
masseybrown
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Sun Jun 06, 2004 2:13 pm

Starting up a bunch of P2P routes in late Sept, one of the year's lowest traffic periods, will be a real challenge unless UAIR can do it with LUV level fares. If they just try to muscle in on somebody else's routes with current fares, they'll go broke trying.

I guess that's why they are adamant about having cost concessions from their employees done by September - they know they can't do it at current fares and costs.
 
pgh234
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Sun Jun 06, 2004 4:46 pm

Wasn't it just recently (during bankruptcy) that US dumped a bunch of Florida assets and flights stating how unprofitable they were?

pgh234
 
airplaneboy
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Sun Jun 06, 2004 5:03 pm

Does anyone know when and why US stopped MCI-LAX service? I remember that as a kid, my family and I used to fly them all the time. Then they stopped and in came Vanguard- and then they were on and off again. Finally, WN came in and stayed.

Did they ever have any other point to point services at MCI?

Thanks.

Travis/LAX  Smile
 
blhp68
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Mon Jun 07, 2004 2:07 am

Travis,

I know at one point or another MCI had a lot of US Airways service. The flew non-stop to LAX, ICT, SFO, SEA, PHL, PIT, CLT, LGA, DCA, BOS. I don't think this destinations were flown simultaneously but they were N/S at one time or another.
 
FLVILLA
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Mon Jun 07, 2004 2:19 am

As US Airways are developing more point to point services how about they be the first US mainline carrier to fly direct MCO - UK(LGW) ????

FLVILLA
I hope in life i can work to live, not live to work
 
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ERJ170
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Mon Jun 07, 2004 2:49 am

I believe that MOST of the international destinations will remain in PHL (Europe) and CLT (CArribean).. although not exclusively.. so you will never know...
Aiming High and going far..
 
cloudboy
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:09 am

BOS-MCI according to the latest DOT stats, over 200 people daily fly that route. I understand that it may not be profitable, it just seems like BOS is one of those major cities you need N/S service to.

Where can you get those stats? I would like to see them.

BOS looks like it has a small working population, because there is such a large student population in the city. Those students often do fly, however, so there is quite a bit of demand there, yet. Of course, there are also a number of alternative airports that draw form that same market.
"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
 
blhp68
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:29 am

Cloudboy:

I just remember these numbers from my days working as an intern at MCI. They get the numbers from the DOT.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: US Airways Point To Point Strategy

Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:33 am

From http://www.faremeasure.com ..

BOS-Orlando/Kissimmee 1712 daily passengers (on average)
Aiming High and going far..

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