ShovelAirlines
Topic Author
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2003 12:01 am

Air Canada In BOS. What's Going On?

Wed Jun 02, 2004 10:15 pm

Hey all you Air Canada fans or bashers out there...

Air Canada started their summer schedule yesterday (at least in the US) As an AC employee here in BOS i'm somewhat bewildered and actually a bit more appalled. AC has really downgraded some routes for example:
BOS-YOW
Was- 3x daily CRJ
Now- 3x daily Dash-8
BOS-YYZ
Was- all 319 with an occasional 320.
Now- fewer frequencies and a mixture of 319, RJ and a few BAE-142s.
BOS-YHZ
still 3x daily Dash-8 (last summer it was a mix of Dash-8 and 142s)
BOS-YUL
Was- 6 daily RJs
Now- a mix of RJs and Dash-8s.

I guess the one positive move is that BOS-YVR starts on June 6th with a 319.

But moreover, why would AC do this? With the decent loads we've been having over the past few weeks, I can't understand why in the summer, we're getting less seats. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of the Dash-8 but I can't tell you how many complaints I heard from our frequent travellers about having to fly on them now instead of the RJ. And don't even get me started on the BAE-142s....
Any insight into this seemingly bad move on Air Canada's part would be greatly appreciated.
Go hang a salami, I'm a lasagna hog!
 
YUL2010
Posts: 309
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2003 8:57 am

RE: Air Canada In BOS. What's Going On?

Wed Jun 02, 2004 10:35 pm

There is a shortage of RJs in AC's fleet (I think). A lot of routes to the USA from YYZ have been converted to RJs (IAH for example), and therefore, AC had to adjust their network.
YUL-PHL has always been RJ (3 daily), but now, one fight is Dash 8...

But I also know that this is temporary... I don't know when it'll be back to all RJs from YUL.

Hope that somewhat answers your question.

YUL2010
"Hotel November Oscar clear to land runway 24L"
 
cayman
Posts: 739
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 2:28 am

RE: Air Canada In BOS. What's Going On?

Wed Jun 02, 2004 10:48 pm

Gives AA a bit of a competitive advantage for now on the fairly high traffic YYZ BOS route doesnt it?
 
ShovelAirlines
Topic Author
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2003 12:01 am

RE: Air Canada In BOS. What's Going On?

Wed Jun 02, 2004 10:54 pm

I would say so!

Yesterday, for example, our 14:10 flight to YYZ which used to be a 319 and is now an RJ was delayed and switched to a Dash-8-300. One of our passengers asked our ticket agent endorse his ticket to AA because the AA flight was on a jet! That may be a bit extreme but I wouldn't doubt if AA gets more AC passengers on that route.
Go hang a salami, I'm a lasagna hog!
 
cayman
Posts: 739
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 2:28 am

RE: Air Canada In BOS. What's Going On?

Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:47 am

It's a little off topic but on the RJs and turboprop questions which have been discussed alot on a.net in relation to AC--I think AC's strategy for RJs and turboprops is misguided. I think your example of a passenger wanting to change to be on jet service is quite the norm--I also think the vast majority of pax would take even a narrow body "full size" a/c over any RJ any day---just my opinion--

Anyway YYZ BOS is deserving of at least 320 series a/c and it's dubious to employ RJs much less a Dash---hopefully for AC its temporary owing to fleet availability---

Everything seems to be getting smaller for a/c---- YYZ to YVR used to be almost al widebody, now it seems that it is largely 320 series---maybe that takes them out of rotation for shorter routes like BOS--

I don't like it, I know that---
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: Air Canada In BOS. What's Going On?

Thu Jun 03, 2004 2:19 am

AC has always played a market share game by throwing too much capacity into many routes. They seem to be finally coming to their senses by reducing capacity in most markets.

AA Eagle jumped into YYZ-BOS a couple of years ago and no doubt have taken market share from AC.

Anyway YYZ BOS is deserving of at least 320 series a/c and it's dubious to employ RJs

AE employs the ERJ on YYZ-BOS so AC will still operate the more spacious aircraft with the 142/CRJ.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
bmacleod
Posts: 2503
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 3:10 am

RE: Air Canada In BOS. What's Going On?

Thu Jun 03, 2004 2:46 am

I remember the "good old days" when YHZ-BOS was served by DC-9s. In 1995 they were replaced by CRJs and should've stayed that way. However, Delta introduced Dornier 328JET service on this route which probably is the reason for the downgrade.

I'm very surprised of YOW-BOS being only a Dash-8? Two major cities like that deserve at least a CRJ....
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
spyderz
Posts: 624
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2001 8:06 am

RE: Air Canada In BOS. What's Going On?

Thu Jun 03, 2004 3:30 am

I think it could be a trickle down affect. Almost all of Air Canada's widebody aircraft are being used for increased international flights. This means that Airbus 319/320/321's are required for more transcon flights. As already mentioned YVR-YYZ for the summer is almost exclusively a narrowbody route that used to be dominated by widebodies. In order to accomodate this I guess many operations are being "downgraded".
 
User avatar
airportugal310
Posts: 3217
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:49 pm

RE: Air Canada In BOS. What's Going On?

Thu Jun 03, 2004 3:35 am

I saw the BAE the other day and was wonder who it was for, as I was looking at it head on. It was when I drove alittle more that I saw the maple leaf on the tail. First time seeing one of those planes. Nifty little thing aint it?

Bruno
I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
 
sebwhite
Posts: 390
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:35 pm

RE: Air Canada In BOS. What's Going On?

Thu Jun 03, 2004 4:57 am

BOS-YHZ/YFC on DL will be on the CRJ this summer with the phase out of the FRJ in BOS.
 
FLYACYYZ
Posts: 1820
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:13 am

RE: Air Canada In BOS. What's Going On?

Thu Jun 03, 2004 6:49 am

It's all about fleet deployment. 4 B767-300's have been "lifted" from domestic transcon service, and are being reconfigured for international service. They will operate SuperComfort/HospitalityService flights to KIX/CDG/ZRH/GLA/AMS, and in turn 319's and 320's formerly serving BOS/LGA/EWR are operating the transcon routes.

In addition, 20 A-319's were slated to be transferred to ZIP concurrent with the summer schedule. However with ZIP now being folded into the mainline in the fall, this will again, result in fleet rescheduling.

Agreed, BOS & EWR seem to have experienced huge equipment/frequency downgrades for the summer, hopefully to be restored by fall.
Above and Beyond
 
iflyatldl
Posts: 1796
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:41 am

RE: Air Canada In BOS. What's Going On?

Thu Jun 03, 2004 7:00 am

Talk about downgrades, look at the ATL AC schedule. It's only a matter of time before we get the Dash 8's.
Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
 
GLAGAZ
Posts: 1844
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 5:42 am

RE: Air Canada In BOS. What's Going On?

Thu Jun 03, 2004 7:02 am

Speaking of Air Canada's Summer service, they started GLA with the 762 today (2nd june), does any one know when they stop?
Neutrality means that u don't really care cos the struggle goes on even when ur not there, blind and unaware
 
sq452
Posts: 994
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:49 am

RE: Air Canada In BOS. What's Going On?

Thu Jun 03, 2004 7:10 am

I have to say that I particularly liked the A319 i took on AC out of Boston in February to Toronto, VERY inviting friendly cabin, comfortable seats, and the load was pretty decent. Newer seats because I took an A320 or A319 back from YVR to YYZ red-eye and it was older seats.

I liked my Air Canada experience though (except the food YYZ-YVR on the old old 762 - nasty!)
SIN > CVG > BOS
 
User avatar
longhauler
Posts: 4952
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:00 am

RE: Air Canada In BOS. What's Going On?

Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:55 am

I had to check the summer schedule for YYZ-YVR and YVR-YYZ, and yes there are a lot of 320 series aircraft on that route. But, there are also 8 wide body flights EACH WAY. There will be 18 flights each way daily between YYZ and YVR this summer. I have never seen such an elaborate schedule on a transcon service before.

The departure times and equipment are:

YYZ-YVR
0630-321, 0700-320, 0800-763, 0830-767, 0900-763, 1000-345, 1100-321, 1200-321, 1300-321, 1400-321, 1500-320, 1600-763, 1700-320, 1730-320, 1800-333, 1900-321, 2000-343, 2100-319, 2210-343

YVR-YYZ
0600-320, 0700-320, 0800-320, 0830-333, 0900-320, 0930-321, 1000-320, 1100-763, 1200-763, 1230-767, 1300-767, 1330-345, 1400-767, 1500-319, 1600-321, 1700-321, 2245-321, 2315-767, 2345-320

Lots of wide bodies in there all right. Also, one thing I noticed is that quite a few flights are oversold already!
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
CanadaEH
Posts: 1331
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 5:53 am

RE: Air Canada In BOS. What's Going On?

Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:18 am

It's crazy how busy that one route is:

Air Canada 18x
Westjet 4x
Jetsgo 3x
SKyservice 2x
Air Transat? 1x?
HMY 2x
EH.
 
cayman
Posts: 739
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 2:28 am

RE: Air Canada In BOS. What's Going On?

Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:56 am

CanadaEh did I read that right--there are 30 daily flights each way between YYZ and YVR?

Wow that is an amazingly busy long transcon route isn't it?
 
LH121GLA
Posts: 342
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 5:42 pm

RE: Air Canada In BOS. What's Going On?

Thu Jun 03, 2004 7:05 pm

Last YYZ-GLA 25SEP04 and eastbound is 26SEP04
 
bmacleod
Posts: 2503
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 3:10 am

RE: Air Canada In BOS. What's Going On?

Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:14 am

Talk about downgrades, look at the ATL AC schedule. It's only a matter of time before we get the Dash 8's.

The Dash-8 is way to small for YYZ-ATL!!! The CRJ will stay on YYZ-ATL and will upgrade to CRJ-700 when they're delivered. AC was using CRJs along with 319s from 1997-2002 and they're much newer and more economical than the older 146s.

[Edited 2004-06-03 18:20:30]
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: Air Canada In BOS. What's Going On?

Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:30 am

I think TS is only weekly on YYZ-YVR. Skyservice only daily not 2x daily.

Also consider the 9 weekly YYZ-YXX (Abbotsford) which is part of greater Van. (6 WJ, 3 SG).

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
User avatar
chrisnh
Posts: 3352
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

RE: Air Canada In BOS. What's Going On?

Fri Jun 04, 2004 3:53 am

AC used to have more capacity on this route even when USAirways was also serving it. Has the demand for travel between these two cities tailed off THAT much???

Chris in NH
 
AF-A319
Posts: 567
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 1999 3:18 am

RE: Air Canada In BOS. What's Going On?

Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:01 am

Now that we know that Milton "could not care less about AC domestic market share", how come they're downgrading their transborder routes? I candidly thought it was part of their strategy...
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: Air Canada In BOS. What's Going On?

Fri Jun 04, 2004 6:32 am

AC used to have more capacity on this route even when USAirways was also serving it. Has the demand for travel between these two cities tailed off THAT much???

Actually back then AC & US each had about 2-3 daily DC-9 on YYZ-BOS. Until recently AC operated 6-7 daily 319/320 plus the 4 daily AE ERJ.

Now that we know that Milton "could not care less about AC domestic market share", how come they're downgrading their transborder routes? I candidly thought it was part of their strategy...

The answer appears to be that AC has too much capacity everywhere in North America.



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.