Womack17
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United And RDU

Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:45 pm

Can anyone with knowledge about United please answer a question for me--- United has served RDU for many years with mainline aircraft to ORD and I remember flying on a 732 to Dulles about 25 years ago. I was wondering why United took all the mainline aircraft out of RDU service? They have competed with AA for many years on routes to O'Hare. Are there any plans to upgrade the RDU-ORD service to larger aircraft? Also is RDU-DEN going to remain CR7 service for the foreseeable future or is an upgrade a possibility there also? Trust me I am not complaining RDU has been wanting a n/s to Denver for years. Thanks to all who have an opinion/comment.
Oh how I miss Midway Airlines. A class act right to then end.
 
rdu777
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RE: United And RDU

Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:57 pm

I myself love American, but would love to see United presence grow as well. I remember when the United 737s were in RDU. I would hope we might get mainline back to ORD. The pax must be right for it if American has all of their flights using Super-80s. I know they would usually use the F-100 but were taken out of RDU. I look forward to seeing United mainline come back. Also does anyone have any idea if RDU will ever see an American 757 again. I've waited so long. Please just one to DFW.
 
Womack17
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RE: United And RDU

Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:00 pm

I miss those 757's too and I loved the 763 to ORD - wow - LGW-RDU-ORD - what a great flight.
Oh how I miss Midway Airlines. A class act right to then end.
 
deltairlines
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RE: United And RDU

Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:09 am

I'm a bit sceptical on the 757 coming back to RDU in AA colours. RDU is not really a leisure destination, which is what the 757 is primarily used on (especially with LRTC). My guess is that the 738 might come in, but I think that the MD-80 will be the primary plane, just because it can do the DFW and ORD runs quite easily, and if they needed more capacity, they could just add another MD-80 (or maybe a CRJ-700/ERJ-145).

Jeff
 
rdu777
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RE: United And RDU

Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:24 am

How long do you think it'll be before United returns to RDU. I'm guessing it'll be somewhere within a year.
 
727LOVER
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RE: United And RDU

Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:30 am

Hmmmm....

just so I can get reaquainted with RDU.

What airlines fly there?
With how many flights each?
Too where?
From what terminals?
Has the B terminal been rebuilt?
Is that MOTEL still in the center?

Haven't been there since 1995.


 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
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ERJ170
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RE: United And RDU

Fri Jun 04, 2004 3:22 am

RDU info..

RDU consists of 2 terminals (Terminal A to be renamed Terminal 1 in 2008 and Terminal C to be renamed Terminal 2 in 2008). Terminal C will be demolished in 2 parts and rebuilt from 32 gates to 42 (with an option of 12 more gates to be added later). Terminal A is supposed to be rebulit after 2010 to go from 28 gates to 40. A third parallel runway 8000' is on the FAA book for RDU after 2005 beside 23R, and 23L is to be lengthened to 9000'.

Terminal B was never really built. It was supposed to be in between Terminal A (Southwest End) and Terminal C (Midway end) but was never built.

At least 5 maintenance hangers are on the books for RDU, with the first in construction in the next year or 2.

Currently, the following airlines operate out of RDU..

Terminal C
American/American Eagle/American Connection (many destinations)
Air Canada Jazz (Hub)
United Express (Hubs)
Falcon Air Express (Bahamas)

Terminal A
Delta/Delta Connection (Hubs except Salt Lake City)
Continental/Continental Connection (Hubs)
NWA/NWA Airlink (Hubs)
Air Tran (Hub)
Southwest (many destinations)
USAirways/USAirways Express (many destinations)
America West (Hubs)

In the center of the airport is the new Parking garage, consisting of 1600 parking spaces. No hotel on the airport premises.

Possible new entrants into RDU in the next 2-3 years are rumored to be jetBlue, Frontier, United Mainline.

In the next 4-6 years include at least 2 new international carriers, currently unnamed.

All this information found from internet browsing so don't quote me on this. Hope it answered all your questions.
Aiming High and going far..
 
Womack17
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RE: United And RDU

Fri Jun 04, 2004 3:37 am

I still would like to know if the UA numbers dropped that drastically at RDU that a mainline wasn't warranted. Several years ago they ran a 735 on a 1700 departure RDU-ORD-SFO - What a flight - in FC you got two entire dinners if you could find a place to stuff all that food. I flew that route for many months on business and tended to see a lot of the same FA's and flight crews - It was just a really nice flight - No video monitors and no film but a very nice flight just the same. I sure do miss the bigger UA jets into RDU - Have always had wonderful experiences with United. Bring some back guys - Just one.
Oh how I miss Midway Airlines. A class act right to then end.
 
rdu777
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RE: United And RDU

Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:19 am

I thought that they sort of dropped the Terminal A expansion project after deciding to go with Terminal C. And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the third parallel runway suppose to be 9500'. I was sure that was the distance.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: United And RDU

Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:27 am

I looked it up on the FAA site (ACE info or something like that) and it stated that the runways were going to be 23R: 10,000', 23W: 8000', 23L: 9000'.

I think that the Terminal A expansion was put on the backburner while Terminal C was renovated, since they were able to get Terminal C back from AA. I do believe that the Terminal A expansion (into a 4 story, 40 gate facility) was delayed but not dropped.

Please note as of 2002:
ACE/APPEND_E.PDF>
and choose Raleigh-Durham.
Aiming High and going far..
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: United And RDU

Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:27 am

UA made a grave mistake when they exited the RDU market. I used to regularly receive the local passenger counts for all UA/UAX flights up until about last summer. RDU was the largest UAX station by far, even before they added the 2 RDUDEN CR7's. (The next largest stn is MKE). If RDU were a UA station, it would've been the 33rd largest UA city (in terms of pax boardings) right behind CLT (32nd). RDU boards more than plenty of mainline stations (GSO, RIC, MDT, ALB, ROC, BUF, and plenty out west I can't recall). It still amazes me that UA closed RDU, MKE, SYR, HPN. Those were all good markets, but I think it comes down to corporate contracts and the fact that UA was doing all possible to cut costs in the wake of 9/11. UA had the perfect chance to come back when DH pulled their agents/rampers in May, but instead gave the stn to ZW. So I'd have to say, I doubt UA has plans to come back which is sad, because they are noe the only legacy carrier without mainline service to RDU... And Personally I think RDUDEN on a CR7 should be illegal. 4hr block on an RJ?! Come on now, it's always oversold, weight-restricted and often it's delayed.

On another note, I heard AA is mulling a RDUFRA n/s. Apparently they've had the rights for some time...

As far as other carriers go...F9 and B6 get mentioned alot, but the issue is gate space or lack thereof. If you want to get a good laugh, check out the Terminal A ramp at 2am, airplanes double, triple parked everywhere and DL parks some 757's over at TWY GH and some RJ's at FBO's.

RDU is a strong Cat. I airport. It has great local traffic (higher than CLT's O&D), and pretty good management for the most part.

Notes From above:
The new RWY 5W/23W (or whatever it's called) is supposed to be 9500'. The new parking decks hold 16,000 cars not 1600.

My 2 cents,
-r

Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
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ERJ170
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RE: United And RDU

Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:39 am

Oops.. did I forget a "0".. my bad.. someone needs to tell the FAA that RDU is supposed to be getting a 9500' cause their website has 8000' (on their 1991 and 2002 ACE Update). As far as overnight parking, I arrived at RDU late one night on an AE flight at about midnight:15.. and it looked like I-40 at 4:00pm! I was like.. well what the? I mean AA has about 22 planes out there.. UAX had about 7.. Hell, even AC had a plane there.. I was like, jigga what? And it was more flights still coming in for the night.. I was like, are they gonna park them on the runway? RDU must be cheap to park a plane, no?

Currently, RDU has 3 open gates.. 2 are in Terminal A and we all know it is TOO crowded to move into there.. and 1 in Terminal C (C13.. although it may not be available since the AA Admirals Club is now in Gate 12). But RDU does seem to be at capacity. But with UAX having 3 gates.. surely at least 1 mainline flight must be in the forseeable future... those J41's can't be their biggest artillery for RDU.. perhaps I shall have to email them and inquire.
Aiming High and going far..
 
727LOVER
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RE: United And RDU

Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:43 am

So the old Terminal B, that used to be too the left of C, this is gone???

Long gone??????

This was the original terminal, correct?

This was vacant waaaaay back in 1995.

Motel is gone too, eh??? Interesting.
Love Trumps Hate
 
rdu777
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RE: United And RDU

Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:46 am

Wow first time rumor for me. I've never heard of RDU-AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA before. I would love to have the service. Does the triangle have enough of a market to support such a flight? I wouldn't doubt it if the Airport Authority was trying to get the flight. They had a statement saying that now with the LGW flight being here over a decade, they would start trying to bring in other Trans-Atlantic flights. Get ready for the bashing. I just read that, so everyone that knows it all at least keep it clean.

Hey get this, in the last five months I've known four families that have taken the RDU-LGW flight. None of which had any connections with GSK.
 
jsnww81
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RE: United And RDU

Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:47 am

The motel is long gone... it was razed some years ago to make room for the huge new parking garage that's gone up between the two terminals.

Terminal B was used by Eastern and USAir until the late 1980s, when operations were consolidated in Terminals A and C. It sat empty for about ten years, but was superficially renovated and reactivated in 1996 as the "Terminal A Annex." Now it houses check-in for Southwest and AirTran, and baggage claim for Southwest, AirTran and US Airways. The old lower-level Terminal B gates were demolished and replaced with a six-gate extension of the upper-level Terminal A concourse.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: United And RDU

Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:48 am

The "Terminal B" of lore was changed to Terminal A-Extension (the original Terminal). It is still located in the same spot. The Terminal B that I speak of was supposed to be a "true" Terminal B located between Terminal A-Extension and Terminal C. That terminal was never started.

The Terminal A - Extension is home to Southwest and AirTran counter (with some counter space still available if any airlines wish to accept), and the gates in Terminal A extention belong to Southwest and USAirways.

As for the hotel, I don't know of any hotel at RDU. Perhaps Womack knows of what you speak. 727Lover, you should really visit the place. The new GA Terminal has photos of RDU thorugh the years.. with an observation deck overlooking the runway 23L.. designed specifically for planespotters.. hopefully they are planning on tearing down the 2 hangers blocking the runway to the right though...
Aiming High and going far..
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: United And RDU

Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:54 am

The two in Term A(actually it's 3 gates, A10-A12) are leased by Independence Air and will be used starting 16Jun. There's no space in Term. A and C13 is AA's gate but is on the fringe of the renovations.

Speaking of the J41's...DH retired about 15 of them last night and the remiaing half dozen or so get retired in late Jul early Aug.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
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ERJ170
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RE: United And RDU

Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:59 am

RDUDDJI...

1st Question.. do you work for RDU? If so.. way cool.. we have to talk more..
2nd Question.. Is a gate 13 unlucky?
3rd Question.. Have you seen the new FlyI area? Is it cool..
4th Question.. Doesn't Air Wisconsin have J41's also? Won't they still be flying those into RDU?
Aiming High and going far..
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: United And RDU

Fri Jun 04, 2004 6:06 am

Answers:

Q1: Nope, I work in Washington now-a-days.
Q2: Maybe, but AA has used it for years.
Q3: I haven't yet, but I'm flying into RDU tomorrow, I'll check it out.
Q4: They don't have 41's. They do however operate the illustrious BAe146!

In a former airline life, I worked for JI. Since then I have worked for 3 other carriers in various capacities. I still miss JI though...

-r
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
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ERJ170
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RE: United And RDU

Fri Jun 04, 2004 6:11 am

ahhh.. yes.. Midway #2... there is no A13 though.. seems odd that there would be a C13 but not an A13.. and yes, UAX is moving from J41 to BAe146.. oh the horror! Why don't they just bring some damn RJ in here and quit treating RDU like a redheaded step child. Shall I lead a Boycott of UAL?

Aiming High and going far..
 
RduBE90Pilot
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RE: United And RDU

Fri Jun 04, 2004 6:14 am

My co-pilot is an old timer here in Raleigh and he said that the microburst of "96?-'97?-98? (somewhere in there) was the reason for the hotel being gone. He told me there was so much damage to it that they wrote it off and cleared out for the parking garage.

Just what I've heard.

Eric
 
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ERJ170
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RE: United And RDU

Fri Jun 04, 2004 6:20 am

well, RDU has open space now. The area where Park & Ride 1 was located. Since it is closed, wonder what they are going to do with that area. Also, the area beside the new garage.. in front of Terminal A Extension.. what is that going to be used for.. so many questions.. no answers...
Aiming High and going far..
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: United And RDU

Fri Jun 04, 2004 6:38 am

The area by Term A Ext. is eventually going to be another parking deck or at least that's what the orig. plans called for. P&R 1...good question? Overflow parking maybe...would be a nice location to expand South Cargo 3.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
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ERJ170
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RE: United And RDU

Fri Jun 04, 2004 6:42 am

More parking? Good Lord.. there aren't that many people for that. P&R 1 isn't going to be a parking lot anymore.. the overflow P&R are 2 and 5. It's supposed to be turned into offices or something.. but I"m not sure what...
Aiming High and going far..
 
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ERJ170
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RE: United And RDU

Fri Jun 04, 2004 9:00 am

Hold up.. thanks to someone's posting (another thread), I was able to get a look at daily departures to several destinations from RDU..

here is the website.. http://www.faremeasure.com

Interesting stuff there.. according to this website.. the following markets are underserved from RDU... meaning there are flights from RDU with lower traffic than these routes...

RDU-LAX Area ( LAX, LGB, ONT, Santa Ana, Glendale, SBA ) = 709 daily pax (at least 2 mainline)

RDU-Bay Area ( SFO, OAK, FAT, SMF, SJC ) = 685 daily pax (at least 2 mainline)

RDU-BUF = 194 daily pax (at least 3 RJ)
RDU-IND = 170 daily pax (at least 2 RJ)
RDU-MCI = 301 daily pax (at least 3 RJ)
RDU-MSY = 229 daily pax (at least 2 mainline)
RDU-SAN = 267 daily pax (at least 1 mainline)
RDU-PBI = 157 daily pax (at least 2 RJ)
RDU-SEA = 268 daily pax (at least 2 mainline)

Other notable places.. BHM (116), JAX (109), ISP (147), SDF (132), MKE (130), SLC (152), SAT (152)

Am I wrong in these quotations?
Aiming High and going far..
 
MSYtristar
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RE: United And RDU

Fri Jun 04, 2004 9:05 am

Ah do I ever miss the days of Midway 2. Nonstop CRJ's (and eventually 73G's) between RDU and MSY. Those flights were full too...everyday...even when they upgraded them to 73G's. RDU was a breeze to connect in. Boy those were the days...


Steve/MSY
 
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ERJ170
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RE: United And RDU

Fri Jun 04, 2004 9:08 am

Well, remember the onld Terminal C well, for soon it will be gone.. and the new terminal will be 3 times bigger with more room to move.. instead of being coralled into those tiny gate areas.. More security lines.. better signage.. can't hardly wait...
Aiming High and going far..
 
rdu777
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RE: United And RDU

Fri Jun 04, 2004 9:24 am

Hey how many RDU locals do we have here? I would just like to know. Maybe we can get an spotters group going. Just a thought. Anyways it sounds like a lot is going on at RDU. I sure hope it all helps to get more flights in to RDU. Also does anyone know the pax on the RDU to ATL flights. We had 4 757 flights but downgraded one to a 738. I absolutely love the new observation deck. Its so great. I'm in CAP and we're taking a trip to the Flight Service Center at RDU. I can't wait for it. I'll tell you all how it was. I'm going later this month.
 
727LOVER
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RE: United And RDU

Fri Jun 04, 2004 10:04 am

Well, remember the old Terminal C well, for soon it will be gone..

Wasn't this just opened in 1987 for AA's hub?
Love Trumps Hate
 
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ERJ170
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RE: United And RDU

Fri Jun 04, 2004 10:07 am

Yes, but it was built as a connecting terminal.. very narrow hall, not spacious, and difficult navigation.. the new terminal is supposed to be open and larger, longer, and better able to handle security lines. And besdies, that terminal looks worst than Terminal A. At least Terminal A has a reason to be looking old. Terminal C doesn't.
Aiming High and going far..
 
rdu777
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RE: United And RDU

Fri Jun 04, 2004 10:20 am

I just wish Terminal A had more windows. The window space is very limited. Hopefully Terminal C will be a lot of glass.
 
MAH4546
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RE: United And RDU

Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:41 pm

RDU-LAX Area ( LAX, LGB, ONT, Santa Ana, Glendale, SBA ) = 709 daily pax (at least 2 mainline)

Santa Barbara is hardly LA area.

RDU-Bay Area ( SFO, OAK, FAT, SMF, SJC ) = 685 daily pax (at least 2 mainline)

Sacramento and Fresno are not in the Bay Area. Fresno is a good 3-4 hour drive from San Fran.

RDU-BUF = 194 daily pax (at least 3 RJ)
RDU-IND = 170 daily pax (at least 2 RJ)
RDU-MCI = 301 daily pax (at least 3 RJ)
RDU-MSY = 229 daily pax (at least 2 mainline)
RDU-SAN = 267 daily pax (at least 1 mainline)
RDU-PBI = 157 daily pax (at least 2 RJ)
RDU-SEA = 268 daily pax (at least 2 mainline)

Other notable places.. BHM (116), JAX (109), ISP (147), SDF (132), MKE (130), SLC (152), SAT (152)

Am I wrong in these quotations?


The numbers are correct, that does not mean the market exists. There are many more factors besides O&D. Is O&D a strong factor? Yes, one of the strongest, but you have to look at other factors. This includes business traffic, location of the airport relative to a hub, connecting oppurtunities, etc., etc. Suggesting, for example, that RDU-SEA could support two daily flights is ridiculous, it simply won't. It was not that long ago that US Airways suspended CLT-SEA service (it has since resumed).
a.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: United And RDU

Fri Jun 04, 2004 9:11 pm

MAH4546..

Let's get something straight..

First, as far as being closer to one of the larger markets (SFO, SAN, or LAX), SBA is closer to LAX than any of the others.. so it was put into that market...

Same with SMT, it is closer to SFO than any other major airport. FAT may have been a stretch.

Secondly, as stated before, RDU has even business/leisure traffic. Certaintly not all those passengers are business, and certainly not all are traffic. I think you will find more companies flying N/S from RDU to LAX or SFO considering the common markets the two area share. Can't argue that there aren't some strong ties between RDU and LAX, Silicon Valley, SAN.

Therefore, my statements stand as they are. IMO, I believe that these destinations are worthy of at least some sort of service consideration. The frequency and by whom are not relevent. Just showing that numbers that can't be denied (according to the website). So if you have to disagree with everything I say.. so be it. But I was just present the facts.
Aiming High and going far..
 
Womack17
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RE: United And RDU

Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:06 am

Wow - I am glad to see that this topic has really taken off.

First off - A hardy welcome to Rdu777 - RDUDDJI and RduBE90Pilot - Nice to have some pro RDU guys around. ERJ170 is the man when talking about RDU that's why he got my first respected user!!

ERJ170 - I don't understand one thing - What has been happening at Terminal C - The last time I was there - they had so many empty gates - Have they been tearing down C?

Steve - You said it all when you said that you miss the Midway days - Boy sure do I. I never, ever had a bad flight with those guys and I flew them over 150 separate trips. When they first started out I sent an email to Bob Ferguson and let him know that I wanted to welcome him to RDU - I explained that RDU was my passion and had been so for well over 30 years. We ended up chatting almost weekly on AOL of all places.  Smile He was a super nice guy and we chatted many times about destinations that I thought would serve JI well. He was a first class act and respected my opinions even though he knew nothing about me when we first started chatting. I gotta tell you I pushed and harrassed him for months about MSY and finally the n/s started. Those MSY-RDU-BDL flights were always full. I lost regular contact with Mr. Ferguson after I was displaced from my computer for a long while because I was recovering from a car accident that has left me permanently disabled. Two days before I got out of the hospital I received a nice arrangement of flowers and a pre-paid ticket voucher. When I looked at that letter and read that note, "Mark, you've earned this buddy. Thanks for everything you have done for Midway." Inside the envelope I found a first class roundtrip ticket on the inaugural flight RDU-LAX-LAS-RDU. What a great experience. A good buddy I had made while having many discussions about the future of JI thought enough of me - a man he had never met in person - to send me those tickets as a gift. Words can't begin to describe that trip to the West Coast and back. I did manage to get off the plane at LAX and LAS just to say I had set foot in California and Nevada. That kind deed will never be forgotten and its instances like that which made Midway the 1ST CLASS OPERATION IT WAS. Sadly what killed JI was their divorce from AA and the ending of that codeshare. I was quite upset at AA for a while and in fact boycotted them for several months. When I read the press release that said AA was ending their codeshare agreement I knew that was going to be lights out for JI. They just couldn't survive without the FF program - If an airline does not have a productive FF program they are doomed from the beginning. JI was able to start the codeshare with NW late in their existence but by then they were losing millions. So as you see I have many wonderful memories of Midway and still to this day I get choked up when I go back and look at my scrapebooks. I have photos of every aircraft JI flew and they rotate on my screen and also on my screensaver. I seriously doubt that there will ever be another carrier like JI!!!!!!!

Now to the original topic. What type of statistics does UA need to bring back a mainliner to RDU. It such a slap in the face to those of us who love UA - They are now the airline I fly with most often. BRING BACK THE MAINLINE TO RDU AND MAKE ONE OF THOSE DEN FLIGHTS A MAINLINE. RESPECT US AGAIN PLEASE!!

Sorry to have rambled for so long but RDU is a very special airport and I want to see her at her maximum.
Oh how I miss Midway Airlines. A class act right to then end.
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: United And RDU

Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:37 am

As I mentioned earlier, I think the constraint on West Coast Flights at this time is gate space. AA is probably the most likely candidate to start RDULAX if that ever re-happens, but now that they lost 2.5 gates to UAX on the C side, parking is an issue. Looks like the only new service we'll see out of AA is all EGL. (the extra RDUBDL flt., new RDUAUS svc., new RDUPVD svc., etc.)

The demand is there. After 9/11, I never would've guess RDU would have 4 n/s flts to PHX (2HP, 2WN), and 2 to LAS (1HP, 1WN). West coast will come in time too.

On a related note: I noticed the construction crews for the term C expansion were still working at 11pm last night...interesting.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
717-200
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RE: United And RDU

Sat Jun 05, 2004 6:48 am

It would be nice if P&R 1 could be converted to Employee Parking, so that
some of us that work at RDU could at least walk to work instead of having
to take the shuttle bus from P&R 4 that is all the way over in Leesville!
A hotel with a nice bar and restaurant would also be a good use for the
former parking lot as well. Are you hearing me RDUAA?
72S 733 734 735 73G 738 742 752 763 E190 M82 M83
 
LambertMan
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RE: United And RDU

Sat Jun 05, 2004 7:36 am

Womack,

This isn't about an airline respecting a city, its about making money, and if UA doesn't feel mainline can be supported by RDU, then they won't put mainline planes in there. Respect for a city means nothing when it comes to the bottom line....

AA, please respect STL and bring back LGWBig grin

Erj,

I don't know where you can get the facts that it is split 50/50 between leisure and business, that would be an extremely hard fact to even determine.

SMF and FAT aren't in the bay catchment area, they have their own airports and Fresno is way out if I remember correctly from a couple years ago.

If the ties were that strong between silicon valley, LAX and SAN then there would be a n/s flight already in place (LGW ring a bell?).

If you guys want to hope for something, hope for LAX because that is about the only market that currently exists that has no n/s service.

On a bright note, RDU-STL is a good performer for AmConn, perhaps look for a 6th daily.
 
ARCJET
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RE: United And RDU

Sat Jun 05, 2004 8:33 am

United entered RDU with the acquistion of Capital Airlines on July 1, 1961 which was also the day Princess Diana was born. There were flights from RDU to Charlotte, Newark, Huntsville, and Atlanta to name a few. Sometime in 1985 or 86 United reworked its route structure and elimanated the old Capital routes and provided service from Chicago to some of these southern cities.
Charleston, SC
 
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ERJ170
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RE: United And RDU

Sat Jun 05, 2004 8:41 am

LambertMan..

The 50/50 split came from RDUAA, so if you have a problem with that figure.. please follow the following link and post your questions to them..

http://www.rdu.com

Second, the RDU-LAX flight was a JI codeshare with AA. At the time, AA was not concentrating on RDU but felt the route made enough sense for them to codeshare. Now that JI has left, hopefully AA will begin the flight.

Third, the ties are VERY strong between RDU and California. With the Triangle being 1 of the top 3 Pharma/Biotech hotspots, 1 of the top 5 Technology hotspots, and 1 of the top 10 Research hotspots, I don't think there is any doubt that NC-CA-(as well as MA) are very closely connected.

As far as the 6th STL flight, it would be interesting.. I am still waiting on the AmX mini-hub here for the intra-NC flights.. still no word heard on that one.

Now, I am finished with the quabble with you LambertMan.. please find someone else to spot your anti-RDU stuff too. I do believe it is Womack17's turn.
Aiming High and going far..
 
rdu777
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RE: United And RDU

Sat Jun 05, 2004 8:45 am

Well I'm glad all the AA anger was taken out on RDU.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy Actually RDU does have close to 50/50 between leisure and business. If you think about it, how many of the major flights out of RDU have big business connections? LGW, PHL, LAX or SJC (if put in place) all have a big business catch.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: United And RDU

Sat Jun 05, 2004 8:51 am

Somehow, this discussion got off topic. This is not about AA, but about United. What the final verdict of the thread? Does anyone who works for United know if they plan to bring mainline service back to RDU anytime soon (say, in the next year or so)? Or do you think they will wait until F9 comes and then all of a sudden upgrade to mainline?


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LambertMan
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RE: United And RDU

Sat Jun 05, 2004 8:53 am

People on this website turn this into personal battles, its like by disagreeing with one of your points, I'm making a personal attack on them. It's a webforum people, I'm not taking any anger out on anything, I'm stating my opinion.
 
rdu777
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RE: United And RDU

Sat Jun 05, 2004 9:25 am

LambertMan,

I was just joking. That's why I put the smiley in there. Sorry for the confusion. Plus you can insult or disagree with anything. Doesn't really change anything. Sorry about that. I wasn't attacking you, I've been reading this forum for over a year now, and with that time have respected many of your opinions. I'll try to tune down the sarcastic me.  Big grin
 
LambertMan
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RE: United And RDU

Sat Jun 05, 2004 9:30 am

Not talking about you Rdu777..... Smile
 
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ERJ170
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RE: United And RDU

Sat Jun 05, 2004 9:35 am

Hmmm.... If that was directed towards me, I have put it all behind me. You DO, LambertMan, say very intriguiging and knowledgeable things... it did, however, feel like a personal attack.. but I suck up and move on. I just don't like to draw things out if it is not necessary. I too enjoy a good discussion.. just not with so much pointed at what seems like one person. Anywho.. comme-ci,comme-ca! C'est la vie!
Aiming High and going far..
 
LambertMan
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RE: United And RDU

Sat Jun 05, 2004 9:38 am

Ok, in the future, just remember its nothing personal. No hard feelings. Big thumbs up
 
FlyPIJets
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RE: United And RDU

Sat Jun 05, 2004 10:37 am

Howdy folks:

Another fan of RDU here.

Back to the topic, especially as it relates to RDU-DEN. I think it will happen exactly like ERJ170 states. If F9 shows up, then UA will upgrade the route to mainline. In fact, I think UAX flying RDU-DEN is a strategic move for UA as much as it is a profit/tactical move. Start building a base of customers on the route before F9 can get here and attract customers with all the free publicity of a new airline on the ramp.

That, in turn *MAY* get UA to thinking about upgrading RDU-ORD to mainline.

I have a thought though, since UA is having Air Wis expand so rapidly at IAD, will that result in UA expending more routes to mainline -like - RDU-DEN(I know its Mesa) or RDU-ORD. My understanding is that UA and Air Wis are planning quite a bit of expansion at IAD, where is Air Wis getting the A/C? will some of it come from relief on existing route taken over by mainline UA.

(maybe why bankruptcy has been extended)

Just a thought



Rex Kramer: Get that finger out of your ear! You don't know where that finger's been!
 
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ERJ170
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RE: United And RDU

Sat Jun 05, 2004 10:56 am

From what I understand, the RDU-DEN route was always pretty much profitable. this RJ baffles me. Doesn't make sense.. 4 hours! That's pretty much cruel and unusual punishment.. and just rude
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Womack17
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RE: United And RDU

Sun Jun 06, 2004 3:17 am

I agree with the assessment that if F9 was to begin service on say a 318/733 nonstop RDU-DEN - UA would have no choice but to upgrade their service from the CR7 to a mainline aircraft. At the present time these UAX flights are taking off on a chronically late basis in both directions and most all of them are flying at 85-90% load factor. I would imagine getting these CR7's at the maximum weight limit would be a hassle also. I am planning a flight to DEN in late June and I can say that at the present time I am planning on flying HP first class with a connection in PHX - I just can't imagine being cramped up in the CR7 for 4 hours - YUCK.

ERJ - I guess you missed one of my former posts - I was inquiring about Terminal C and the lack of viable gates - Did they remove the unused gates in Terminal C - In other words have they begun demolition on those gates?
Oh how I miss Midway Airlines. A class act right to then end.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: United And RDU

Sun Jun 06, 2004 4:59 am

Womack,

Not yet.. I believe demolition is supposed to begin in the next 2 or 3 months. They have, however, cut off all gates (as well as electricity and water) to Gates 1-11 in anticipation of the demolition. Gate A12 is now the AA Admirals club until after renovation. Gate 13 is open but too close to the construction for use. All other gates are taken. The Apron area has been demolished and they are working on the taxiway/apron area in front of the demolition area. They are working the intersections (area between the two taxiways, not sure what it is called) of the taxiways.. making them larger across for the anticipated larger aircraft from international airlines. They are also working on moving the road that now goes from Lumley Road to the airport. The new apron for the terminal is supposed to go all the way to Taxiway #3 (don't know it's name). They may even make the road go UNDER the apron.. I"m not sure yet.. Can't tell. But they are working hard.

Today, they have runway 23R closed working on the area beside the runway.. very odd...
Aiming High and going far..