jmc1975
Posts: 2897
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Fri Jun 04, 2004 3:18 pm

It's no mystery the current financial status of the US airline industry suggests that the legacy air carriers have a long and painful road ahead of them before any profitability can be seen. One logical merger is that of Delta and Continental. These two money-losing airlines can both combine their assets and trim the excess fat of to form one profitable and premium airline. Here are some examples of what should be executed in such a merger:

+ The name is Delta Air Lines, which also operates Delta Connection and Delta Shuttle. Song will have played its last tune due to demand of premium air service in the markets, therefore mainline Delta will take over some of those routes.

+ Gordon Bethune is Chairman and CEO

+ Headquarters in Atlanta, Georgia with a reduced Sr. Management headcount from the two combined airlines.

+ Primary hubs in Atlanta, Houston and Newark. Secondary hubs consist of Cincinnati and Salt Lake City.

+ Atlanta and Salt Lake City will see virtually no change in service from current levels, except Continental will be gone.

+ Houston and Newark will see the current level of service that Continental has, except it's now served by Delta.

+ Dallas/Ft. Worth will be operated primarily as an O&D airport to Delta's primary and secondary hubs plus point-to-point service to LAX, SFO, BOS, LGA, PHL and DCA.

+ Cleveland will be absorbed by Delta's Cincinnati hub, therefore only nonstop service to ATL, IAH, CVG and EWR.

+ Cincinnati will be at approximately current levels, however, the increase from the absorption of Continental's Cleveland hub will be offset by the increased connectivity at Houston.

+ New York JFK will be scaled back significantly in favor of the Newark hub. JFK will only see service to the primary and secondary hubs and the transcontinental nonstops to LAX will remain. International Skyteam partners will continue to serve JFK.

+ The fleet will be streamlined to consist of Boeing 737-300, 737-500, 737-700, 737-800, 737-900, 757-200 (RR-powered CO 752s and 753s will be gone due inconsistency in the fleet), 767-200 (15 ex-DL 762s will be retired), 767-300, 767-400, 777-200 (RR Trent-powered DL 772s will be gone too) and MD-88s. The DL 737-200s and MD-90s will be gone from the fleet as well as the CO MD-80s. As profitability increases, expect to see MD-88s replaced with 737-700s and -800s, and also expect a significant order for the 7E7.

+ Delta could run Air Micronesia as a separate entity or sell it off all together.

It's inevitable that changes are in the air...they may be drastic. A DL/CO merger could potentially form one strong, high-quality airline. This would not be the death of Continental, but rather it's assets taking on the name of a larger compatibile air carrier that has served of our country well since 1929.

.......
 
COAB767
Posts: 1313
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 6:32 pm

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Fri Jun 04, 2004 3:40 pm

I don't think this would ever happen.
Continental Micronesia: "Fly With The Warmth Of Paradise"
 
Goldentail
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 2:55 pm

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Fri Jun 04, 2004 3:48 pm

Your synopsis is a fantasy.......

First off, why does CO become DL? If anything it would probably go the other way....CO has the marketing in place and is accepted as the premier airline in the U.S. today. You also need to realize that CO financially has it ducks in a row and has 1.6 billion in the bank. CO name also serves as a global name, and is widely known now in Europe as well as in Central / South America.
Not to say DL is not a good airline, but I don't see the fantasy you outlined happening anytime soon....first off the govt won't allow it, can you remember them shutting down UA/US before 9/11??? Also alliances are proving the way to go, feeding each carrier revenue without the mess of integrating labor forces which typically ruins an airline for years.

And even if DL was to remain in lieu of as you have suggested, you are very mistaken to think the combined airline would ditch Air Micronesia. That is a profitable part of our company that has no real competition. I hardly think it will be sold.

While your thread has entertaining value....it's flawed from a realistic standpoint.

"The Proud Bird -w- The Golden Tail"
 
jmc1975
Posts: 2897
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Fri Jun 04, 2004 3:56 pm

Goldentail,

OK, let's say it went the other way and the merged company were to become Continental. I'd have no objection to that (like it matters)  Smile. Wouldn't that still be better than the status quo and both carriers dying a slow and agonizing death? Why wouldn't the US gov't permit it? Why do you think airline CEOs have recently testified before Congress about the state of the industry?
.......
 
artsyman
Posts: 4516
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:02 pm

Why do you think airline CEOs have recently testified before Congress about the state of the industry?
****

To try and get the government to take some of the burden of security costs from the airlines. Let's face it, Al Qaeda is not at war with UAL and AA, they are at war with the USA in general, yet the government will not pay the bill for protecting the airlines even though it is clearly a national security issue not an airline issue.

Secondly to lobby to get the government to try and do something about the sky high fuel prices.
J
 
greatansett
Posts: 485
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 5:38 pm

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:21 pm

Isnt CO owned by Northwest? Shouldnt they merge.
Ron Paul 2012
 
artsyman
Posts: 4516
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:25 pm

Isnt CO owned by Northwest? Shouldnt they merge.
***

While they were never "owned" by NW did own a large amount of the oustanding shares of the company. Just prior to 9.11, Continental bought the shares back from NW and now NW no longer owns any relevent amount. I do believe that NW still has a veto right over and Continental merger.

J
 
nosedive
Posts: 2176
Joined: Sun May 23, 2004 2:18 pm

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:27 pm

Isnt CO owned by Northwest? Shouldnt they merge.

No, is the short answer. There were plans a few years ago, I believe for NW to merge w/ CO...
 
bigb
Posts: 731
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:30 pm

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:28 pm

first off, if DAL and CO was to merge here what will mostly happen

Gordon will do his best to off load DL 767s and 757s

Say good bye to CVG, Hello to Cle

Say good bye to Song

Say good bye to DL shuttle (this opts will become two class service offered by CO)

say good bye to DFW hub

look for ATL to be down graded a tad.

Hubs will be EWR, IAH, ATL, CLE, SLC

Look for Comair and ASA to be sold.

Look for Express Jet massive expansion

Head quarters moved to Houston.

DL 777-200s will be sold or leased out (CO only flies GE engined 777s)

LGA and DCA operations will be kept. Good bye to Bos

Say good bye to JFK operations

what min, if all this happend, CO will now be broke ending up with they only started with before they merged.
ETSN Baber, USN
 
User avatar
ua2162
Posts: 437
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 11:53 am

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:40 pm

First, like many people have already mentioned, it would be stupid to take the DL name.

Second, this merger would hurt Micronesia. The only real decent service that is offered is done so through CO. If DL were to merge with CO, I am afraid many of the Micronesian routes would be forgotten.

Third, CO would be crazy to merge with an airline at the brink of bankruptcy.

Lastly, I think SLC would take a big hit also. Wouldn't CO want to route most of their flights through DFW?
 
m404
Posts: 1875
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:43 pm

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:05 pm

I've been saying a tie up among DL/CO/NWA was a real possibility since 1986. The present partnership proceedings would make me think I was not alone. But a merger. Not in the present atmosphere. Why should they? Mergers are incredibly expensive and take forever to produce tangible benefits much less profits. Employee integration is a real b---- what with different rules and unions. A carrier without a union (in a classification) and one without is no better. Upper management conflicting and kissing up to get their piece while ignoring the operation happens all the time.

No, mergers are ugly. I'll bet rules that are forever changing to benefit corporations will evolve that make mergers even less attractive.
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 
NWDC10
Posts: 904
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2003 10:15 am

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:19 pm

I think Co will do better in the future. They have tighter control of the airline and i do see profits for them in the future. Seems to me DA has no controll over the airline. It is being pulled apart as everyone is not really working together like CO is. A "united" airline will be strong and stay together. A "divided" airline will simply fall. I'd personally hate to see these two airlines merge. They both can fly apart from each other even if one fails in the future. But i also hope for the best for both of them. Robert NWDC10
 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Fri Jun 04, 2004 10:43 pm

Better keep it as a fantasy, because it was dumb. Lets just fire a bunch of CLE workers too.

Thats all we need are less and less majors until we have one left and we have Ameroflot Airlines because everyone merges. Really fun for the spotters...

I am glad you aren't serious.
 
N6376M
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:54 am

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Fri Jun 04, 2004 10:47 pm

Good luck with the pilot pay and senority issues.
 
ord
Posts: 1356
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 1999 10:34 pm

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Fri Jun 04, 2004 10:55 pm

I wouldn't completely rule this one out. At an aviation conference about two weeks ago Bethune (of CO) and Arpey (of AA) both agreed that consolidation via merger would happen among the major carriers. They felt within a few years the "Big 6" would be down to three or four. You can bet if they're making these comments in public they're also talking behind closed doors about the future. Assuming US Airways either goes under or gets absorbed somehow by another airline, that still leaves one or two mergers left to go.

CO and DL do have a good fit. If it happened, I see the main hubs as ATL, IAH and EWR. CVG I believe would stay as is while I think CLE would go...CVG is the far larger hub with more mainline and international service. Oh, and SLC would remain as is. My feeling also is that the DL brand is stronger overall and should be the surviving name.

Nobody knows, of course, what will happen, but it is fun to speculate. Don't forget also that back in the 1980s DL took a serious look at merging with NW (before Republic did), so that may be a possibility also.

Bethune and Arpey also predicted consolidation among the LCCs as well.
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Fri Jun 04, 2004 10:58 pm

If anything DL would become CO like others have pointed out. The weakest player is not about to take over a much stronger player at this stage in the game.

A few things that IF and that is a big IF, CO and DL managed to merge is, and these are my thoughts only.

#01. CVG would win over CLE, as much as I hate to say that living in CLE, CVG just has more to offer as an airport.
#02. JFK would be gone and replaced with EWR.
#03. ATL would not be affected at all.
#04. Song would have sung her last Song.
#05. All the connection carriers would be merged into Express Jet and become Express Jet.
#06. The Shuttle would remain as is just become a CO paint job.
#07. Growth at SLC would happen to support the new mega carrier.
#08. DFW would be downsized even more.

Of course this is all fantasy as airline mergers of this size are a thing of the past.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13223
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Fri Jun 04, 2004 11:21 pm

Continental would definetly be the parent Company, and the brand name.

CO's management would assume control over both companies, with the corporate headquarters moving to Atlanta.

DL's JFK operations that don't overlap with CO's EWR flights (Nice, Athens, Barcelona, Moscow, Venice) would move to EWR, the other JFK routes that do overlap with CO's flights from EWR would be dropped and the aircraft transfered to EWR and IAH to launch new routes such as IAH-Madrid, IAH-Frankfurt.

Some operations would remain at JFK, although not on the current scale. CO may launch a JFK-Tel Aviv flight for instance.

ATL remains untouched, IAH gets some 767-300s from the scaling back of the JFK operation, EWR also gets some 767-300s from the scaling back of the JFK operation.

CLE or CVG would need to be consolidated into one another.

DFW would need to be downsized further, sell the gates to Airtran who are planning a major expansion at DFW.

DL's current situation dictates that a straight up merger with CO is out of the question, hence DL would need to go through bankruptcy and CO aquire parts of DL in bankruptcy court.

DL is on the verge of bankruptcy..

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/04/business/04air.html
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:07 am

RR-powered CO 752s and 753s will be gone due inconsistency in the fleet

Considering the PW2037 is among the many reasons for DL's late-90s beef with Pratt, and none of DL's 757s are ETOPS certified..... I'd say the inverse would be the case in any such [fantasy] merger.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
User avatar
N328KF
Posts: 5810
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 3:50 am

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:32 am

Clearly some crack smoking going on here.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
fraT
Posts: 993
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 4:32 am

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:45 am

Why not create a new name with the first two letter from DL and the last four from CO. That would bring up DENTAL. There would be some nice possibilities for the logo. Big grin  Big grin Big grin
 
ScottB
Posts: 5457
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:30 am

First of all, Delta needs to get its house in order before any sort of merger could be considered. Unless DAL's assets were purchased as part of a liquidation sale (unlikely at this point), the combined carrier would likely still be stuck with Delta's pilot costs, given that they are the larger group, and CAL wouldn't be profitable with that, either. And in any case, the existing alliance gives them most of the benefits of a merger without all the integration nightmares.

Bethune wouldn't be the chairman since he's retiring at the end of the year. I will miss his quotes -- my favorite recent one being "I don't think that painting our planes yellow and calling ourselves Al" (is going to make much difference).

A hypothetical combined airline would likely be forced to sell the Delta Shuttle, given that it would have two of the three significant WAS-NYC-BOS operations (CO operates hourly or near-hourly service from EWR to BOS and DCA). An additional sale of assets at LGA might also be required, again due to NYC-area market concentration.

The fate of CLE and/or DFW would likely be determined by the ability of a combined company to get out of long-term leases, as well as the inherent profitability of each market. It would make sense to continue to maintain each hub (CLE especially) if the combined company were able to fill the planes with mostly O&D traffic to each hub. Routes that are largely filled with connecting traffic at CLE and DFW would get the axe. JFK might be scaled back, but EWR has a problem with limited peak-hour airfield capacity; it could also be argued that the two airports serve somewhat different markets for dense NYC-Europe routes.

The thing is, no one right now (aside from Southwest and maybe jetBlue) has the financial resources to go out and buy anyone else whole. You might see different airlines picking up pieces of a liquidated carrier (US Airways is the #1 candidate here), but the network carrier business right now boils down to who has enough cash to stay alive the longest. Throwing a bunch of money at a merger which gives few benefits over and above the existing alliance is STUPID.
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2615
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Sat Jun 05, 2004 3:09 am

I don't know where you all get off that CO is more well known than DL. You're talking an airline that carries 105 million passengers being swallowed up by one half the size that carries 45 million. Have you ever heard of an airline merger where the smaller airline takes over the corporate name and image. DL is a key player in the world, and is definitely more recognized throughout the US than CO. That's absurd that DL would lose its name. If CO took over AA, would CO keep the name then? No, AA, UA, and DL are probably the most well-established, well-recognized carriers in the US. Also, whoever mentioned that ATL would be downsized is smoking. You're talking downsizing the largest hub in the world, as well as the highest revenue yielding hub, with the most flights, to the most cities, at the 9th largest O&D city in the US. Don't forget the two were going to merge in 1998, and DL would take over CO, NOT the other way around. Also, who mentioned the Shuttle being scrapped? That is hilarious! The Shuttle is one of DL's and US's biggest assets. You all must be smoking something.

Jeremy
 
DCA-ROCguy
Posts: 3895
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 5:03 am

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Sat Jun 05, 2004 3:44 am

CO-Delta would not happen, because of anti-trust issues. Both airlines are strong in the East, and DOJ isn't going to let two of the three network carriers that have decent East Coast networks merge. Remember, the regulators--and lots of Congresscritters from communities that would be affected--live in the East.

And as several have noted, network carriers don't have a financial motive to merge nowadays. Better to let the weakest fold, let their labor agreements die out, and then buy up the desirable pieces. And hire any employees under the buying carrier's labor agreements. As noted above, *no one* is going to want Delta's pilot contract, and since they're the largest pilot group in a DL-CO merger, their agreement would stay.

Of course, given the sheer incompetence manifest by much of network-carrier management in the past decade, two network carriers might attempt a merger. But there's no rational financial incentive for them to do so.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
ScottB
Posts: 5457
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Sat Jun 05, 2004 4:13 am

"Also, who mentioned the Shuttle being scrapped? That is hilarious! The Shuttle is one of DL's and US's biggest assets. You all must be smoking something."

Nope. The Shuttle's not such a great performer anymore, what with increased security hassle and Acela being very competitive for total travel time from city center to city center, especially from NYC to D.C. Why do you think Delta put the 733's (instead of 738's) on its Shuttle while US Airways runs mostly two-class A319's and 733's (instead of the single-class A320's)? The values being placed by analysts on US Airways' Shuttle operation (mostly the slots and gates) were around $100 million -- about one-third of what they paid several years ago.

But that's not even germane to why a combined DL/CO would have to sell the Shuttle. The U.S. government would not allow them to retain the Shuttle in light of CO's BOS-EWR and DCA-EWR routes. And as DCA-ROCguy said, there would be even more serious antitrust concerns raised than the ones seen when the UA-US merger was proposed.
 
dl021
Posts: 10836
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:04 pm

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Sat Jun 05, 2004 4:24 am

The current alliance that is currently in effect will give many of the advantages of a merger without the drawbacks. DL and CO considered a merger not long ago and the idea was tossed out. DL does have a very desirable route structure and name recognition, notwithstanding the opinions of CO employees and fans, so their name would be more desireable, but CO is in a better financial situation apparently and they would have no real reason to want to merge, unless it was very favorable for them to do so, and if the situation at DL was all that great in the first place we woul dbe back to wondering if DL was going to swallow up someone (like CO).
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
ord
Posts: 1356
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 1999 10:34 pm

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Sat Jun 05, 2004 4:51 am

"DL and CO considered a merger not long ago and the idea was tossed out."

That was because Bethune was not happy with the way Leo Mullin was treating Continental management/employees in the deal. If Mullin had been a little nicer Continental may have chosen Delta over their NW alliance. Now with Mullin gone, Delta is probably much easier to deal with.
 
tommy767
Posts: 4658
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:18 pm

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Sat Jun 05, 2004 5:21 am

"757-200 (RR-powered CO 752s and 753s will be gone due inconsistency in the fleet),"

Probably not. When you think about it, CO's 757s are MUCH younger than the DL 757s and are in much better condition. I could see that it might be inconsistant, but differently configured 757s can still perform together in the same fleet. (if this would ever happen, DLs could stick to domestic, COs for international.)

753s gone? Think of all the high density routes you would loose that would be PERFECT for that a/c!
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
BritishMidland
Posts: 167
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 4:57 am

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Sat Jun 05, 2004 5:36 am

"Really fun for the spotters...

I am glad you aren't serious."


Spotters? Are you serious? Since when did spotters matter to the overall scheme a business? Douche yourself of this mindset.
Enter the new age: A340-500, 777-200LR, 7E7
 
dl021
Posts: 10836
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:04 pm

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Sat Jun 05, 2004 6:07 am

Yeah, Mullin is an accountant, and one with seemingly little personal sales ability. He sure managed to enrage DL employees with ill-considered, bankruptcy proof special executive compensation. Perhaps if he had acted differently DL would not be having as many problems with their pilots and the concessions they need. Maybe.
DL and CO are probably also not all that well attuned for a merger , in that a merger of the two would not significantly add to DLs structure or profit potential (there is a good bit of overlap to the same cities or areas as opposed to differing routes that could expand opportunities) while it definitely would bring all the headaches and nightmares any merger brings.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
gdh
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue May 04, 2004 3:57 am

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Sat Jun 05, 2004 6:22 am

Delta management will say and do anything to break the cutrrent Pilot contract. There will be a lot of gossip about Delta/Bankruptcy, but it will not happen. Delta has about 2.5 Billion is cash. The fuel prices is more of a threat to all airlines than the current pilot contracts. Mullins did a lot of damage and it will take hard work from all employees to have delta turn around. The flight attendants have taken about a 23% paycut and new work rules go in place 7/01/04. No one in the media or delta management never talks about what the other employees have given up since 9/11 and the war.
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Sat Jun 05, 2004 6:57 am

+ Gordon Bethune is Chairman and CEO

Our beloved Gordon is retiring at the end of this year. I can't recall who the new CEO will be.

Have you ever heard of an airline merger where the smaller airline takes over the corporate name and image.

ValuJet buying AirTran and keeping the latter name. But I do agree with you. Delta Air Lines is a much stronger name, IMO. Continental is known well, but not as well as Delta.

AAndrew
 
ord
Posts: 1356
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 1999 10:34 pm

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Sat Jun 05, 2004 7:00 am

"No one in the media or delta management never talks about what the other employees have given up since 9/11 and the war."

I'm a Delta fan, but it doesn't matter how much the employees have given up. The fact is Delta's labor costs are far higher than either of two of their main legacy rivals, United and American. You cannot be competitive when your competition has significantly lower costs. AA lowered costs through a near-bankruptcy experience, UA with bankruptcy. Delta is going to have to find a way to bring their costs in line.

"Delta management will say and do anything to break the cutrrent Pilot contract. There will be a lot of gossip about Delta/Bankruptcy, but it will not happen. Delta has about 2.5 Billion is cash."

The pilots contract needs to be broken. It is not in line with industry rates. Also, how much cash Delta has means nothing if they're going through it like water. A Delta bankruptcy is a very real possibility whether you want to accept that fact or not.
 
iflyatldl
Posts: 1796
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:41 am

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Sat Jun 05, 2004 7:02 am

I'm convinced! I'll book my next flight on Deltanental or Continelta.  Big grin
Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2615
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Sat Jun 05, 2004 7:08 am

Aa757first,

Valujet's name change to AirTran was because of the crash in Florida, they wanted to rid their Valujet name from the company. DL has no reputation like that. That's not a good example.

Jeremy
 
777gk
Posts: 1488
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2000 3:04 am

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Sat Jun 05, 2004 7:19 am

In 1998, things were a lot different. Both carriers were scoring record profits, but obviously Delta was the stronger of the two airlines. Either way, if there was to be a merger (thank God there wasn't), Continental would have been bought out by Delta to form a new company called Delco Airlines. Most assets of both carriers would have been retained, but closures of the CLE and DFW hubs were widely speculated as a "one-for-one" agreement to consolidate operations.

Today, it is far more likely that the reverse would happen (Continental buyout of Delta), but nobody in their right mind would try to mesh two massive, money-losing operations in the least profit-conducive environment this industry has ever seen.

If such a tie-up were ever to come to fruition in the last few years of my career, I'd probably retire early. I could see something like this leading to the death of both carriers. It would be a horrendous move on all sides.
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2615
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Sat Jun 05, 2004 7:29 am

Delco? Are you joking? How come I never heard a thing about that?

Jeremy
 
777gk
Posts: 1488
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2000 3:04 am

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Sat Jun 05, 2004 7:35 am

Maybe you weren't paying attention, but that's what the proposal was.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Sat Jun 05, 2004 7:37 am

777gk, what's this buzz about CO converting a single further 772ER?

I didnt even know they had an outstanding option, if it's true. Or is it just further squat?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
777gk
Posts: 1488
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2000 3:04 am

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Sat Jun 05, 2004 7:42 am

I'm not 777 crew anymore, so if a rumor like that were to surface, I wouldn't know about it right away, but I'm friends with some 777 guys, I'll check on it for you.

Far as I know, this is just speculation, but ideally we would like to have the flexibility in scheduling with our 777 fleet that an additional aircraft would be able to deliver. This does not necessarily mean that another long-haul destination is on the way (I'd probably have heard something already).
 
goboeing
Posts: 2430
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 5:31 am

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Sat Jun 05, 2004 7:44 am

777gk,
Know Herb H. on the B-777 at EWR?

Nick
 
DeltaGuy
Posts: 3965
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 5:25 am

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Sat Jun 05, 2004 10:28 am

The pilots contract needs to be broken. It is not in line with industry rates.

You can't just go and break a pilot contract...there's a Pilot Union in the way, and about 9,000 pilots who would walk if they did. Now a BK court judge can edit and change what the pilots do, but you can't go around breaking agreements. There are unions and contracts for a reason...

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
DCA-ROCguy
Posts: 3895
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 5:03 am

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Sat Jun 05, 2004 10:59 am

Where I come from, Delco is the name of a unit of General Motors that makes various mechanical parts for GM cars. They have a plant in Rochester.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
DeltaGuy
Posts: 3965
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 5:25 am

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Sat Jun 05, 2004 11:07 am

I use ACDelco parts in my Chevys  Laugh out loud They're quite big...

A pilot seniority list merger would be terrible...it'd be ALPA-ALPA, so it'd be by hiredate...which would throw alot of guys down the ladder. Plus fleet arrangements, anti-trust issues, etc etc....codesharing is just so much easier. I'd hate to lose either livery..

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2615
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:13 pm

Well that Delco thing mentioned is obviously bull, cuz no one seems to remember it except 777gk, and that's already a company name. Anyway, why would two well-known airlines ruin BOTH of their names and name a company a dumb name like Delco Airlines?!? I don't think that ever was going to happen.

Jeremy
 
DeltaGuy
Posts: 3965
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 5:25 am

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:34 pm

Well Jeremy, if you had checked out 777gk's profile, you'da known he's a real-life Continental 764 pilot....and more than qualified to answer the question. Plus, it's not like he's an armchair CEO who heard it through the grapevine, he's someone who'd hear it direct from the source. Plus, it was a "proposal"....so I'd trust him more than others here.

Also, I think it's "ACDelco", GM parts...unless there's a Delco part of it. There's more than one Delta out there, you know...Delta faucets, anyone?  Laugh out loud

DeltaGuy

"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
sccutler
Posts: 5582
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 12:16 pm

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:57 pm

Have you ever heard of an airline merger where the smaller airline takes over the corporate name and image...

Yep.

Texas International took over Continental, merged TI & CO into CO. Saved Continental in the process, too.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
L1011Lover
Posts: 736
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 5:16 am

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Sat Jun 05, 2004 3:27 pm

I highly doubt that one of either airline would ever give up their names!

Both are well known and respected names that stand for quality air travel, why should any of them lose their own identity?
A merger like the AF/KL deal might be a possibility with both airlines keeping their own ID.

I would hate the idea of any of the current US air carrier names disappear!
As much as I hated to see names like Pan Am, TWA and Eastern (along others) go!!! What a shame!!!

I really hope that the american airline industry will keep it´s diversity which makes it so famous, great, typical and distinctive!!!

L1011Lover
 
StarCruiser
Posts: 294
Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 12:12 am

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Sat Jun 05, 2004 3:29 pm

I agree with many of you; such a merger will never happen. If it did, CO is the stronger player by far. There is no way they would take the DL name. So how about a whole new name? How about "Intercontinental," befitting their actual routes between continents?
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2615
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Sun Jun 06, 2004 12:21 am

Sccutler,

Texas International kept Continental's name and corporate image.

StarCruiser,

Do any of you understand anything about business management and name recognition? Were a CO/DL merger to take place, DL is the better known carrier and would keep the name, or go to Delco as 777gk said, but DL would never just rid itself of its name. Some people in the South know of just a few airlines, and DL is definitely the most well-known there. Tell me one person who hasn't heard of Delta Air Lines? I know a few who didn't know there was a Continental. And how exactly is Continental a stronger player? DL is twice their size. Just because DL is having problems doesn't mean they're done. Heard of bankruptcy before? I don't recall hearing that ANY of the big six made profits last quarter. So calling CO strong is ridiculous, cause they by no means have the money to take over an airline twice their size, or any airline at all.

Jeremy

 
scottysair
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:07 pm

RE: Profile: Delta/Continental Fantasy Merger

Sun Jun 06, 2004 12:38 am

Is that something going on with DL & CO are already codeshare?