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Aaron747
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VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 11:16 am

Formal announcement coming in a week.

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/stories/2004/05/31/daily42.html?jst=b_ln_hl

[Edited 2004-06-05 04:27:41]
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ERJ170
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 11:19 am

It's about time they said something... But BOY are they gonna be in for a bunch of delays... SFO and their fog is NO JOKE!!!! Wonder what UA is gonna do now? LCC at every door they own! Denver, Dulles, SFO... Chicago (Midway).. dang!! Will it END?
Aiming High and going far..
 
JAL777
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 11:21 am

Not going head to head with Jetblue is a good idea. However, I don't quite understand why management is in NYC and ops is in SFO. However, that does indicate that SFO-NYC will be one of the initial routes.
 
dbo861
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 11:24 am

How soon will we see an order for some planes?
 
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Aaron747
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 11:24 am

ERJ, the delays were a big problem pre-9/11, growth stifling in fact. With traffic levels down 20% though - it hasn't been nearly as bad.

In any case the problem will return as traffic is gradually returning to pre-event levels - hopefully this will get the city off its ass to resume working on the runway reconfiguration though.

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deltaffindfw
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 11:25 am


And how long will it take to get the Intl terminal in working condition?
 
United777
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 11:27 am

Finally the west coast gets a new airline based here.  Smile Looking forward to flying Virgin's planes. Hope they start SFO-SEA flights.
 
gigneil
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 11:41 am

And how long will it take to get the Intl terminal in working condition?

What?

N
 
Bsmalls35
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 11:41 am

Makes sense that SFO came out on top. In NY, JFK has jetblue and both EWR and LGA have very limited gate space.
 
deltaffindfw
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 11:43 am

Neil -

"and use of SFO's old international terminal for Virgin USA flights. The terminal was scheduled for renovation but that project was delayed due to lack of money. "

It has been a while since I've flown into SFO (more than 9 months), but it looked like their was a lot of work to do.

 
gigneil
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 11:45 am

Ah. Its been awhile since I was there last too, but I don't think it should take too terribly long. It was in need of major renovation, but they do things like that in record time these days.

N
 
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Aaron747
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 11:45 am

gig,

VirginUSA has been promised exclusive rights to gates if SFO refurbishes the old international terminal. A lot of work was done on the apron and baggage areas of the terminal but they ran out of money for interiors. Almost certainly this deal will provide the incentive to finish the job - wouldn't take any longer than it'll take Virgin to get up and running.

And operationally, you can't ask for a better location in the terminal layout 'wheel' - the old int'l terminal is just a couple minutes' taxi time (and we're talking worst case here) from the most commonly used turnoffs on rwys 28L/R.

[Edited 2004-06-05 04:46:34]
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njdevilsin03
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 11:46 am

Ya maybe now FLL will get an SFO flight. AA isn't moving in on the route so fast so Virgin US may beat them to it.
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deltaffindfw
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 11:47 am


Aaron -

I was thinking the same thing - best location at the airport!!
 
copaair737
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 11:49 am

This is great news for SFO. I cannot wait to see the VUSA planes at SFO. I am so excited by this announcement. Yeah, I think that LAX, JFK, and maybe MIA will be the original routes, and maybe BOS, SEA, PDX, and IAH. Those sound reasonable to me. This is great news! Good times for SFO in the near future.

-Copa
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
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Aaron747
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 11:57 am

For reference - the old int'l terminal is right smack dab in the middle:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Aaron 747

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S12PPL
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 11:58 am

I have no doubt PDX, SEA, LAX, and PHX will be west coast launch cities. I also would not be suprised to see ORD, DEN, and DFW on the table. Welcome to the west coast Virgin USA!
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FLY777UAL
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:00 pm

yeah...welcome.

Still have yet to see exactly why they chose the Bay Area.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L
 
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Aaron747
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:04 pm

Good market - SF is a perennially successful tourist destination and it's not an LCC-saturated market. The competition with B6 at JFK would have been too stiff. ATA and HP both have a modest presence at SFO but their market penetration is as yet limited. Where's the real competition aside from the legacy tenants, both of whom haven't figured out how to really avoid LCC-induced vulnerabilities? You have to go across the bay to find it, and frankly it's a pain for SF and peninsula residents to utilize OAK - and that's 2 million folks right there.



[Edited 2004-06-05 05:06:08]
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
DFWLandingPath
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:08 pm

Any chance of a link between VirginUSA and VirginBlue in Oz? Perhaps the addition of a Virgin flight between SFO and SYD?

Cheers,
DFWLandingPath
 
S12PPL
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:10 pm

B6 will not threaten VirginUSA at SFO, and neither will WN. It will, however, be very interesting to see how VirginUSA competes with UA, and AS on the PDX, SEA markets, and United on the LAX, AS / KLAS), USA - Nevada">LAS, PHX type markets. I'd imagine they'll be an all coach configured airline, so of course, they will be different than these guys, but they still will be moving inn on a market or three. Let the battle begin!
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
FLY777UAL
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:15 pm

I realize all of the population/tourist stuff, but eventhough it's not a LCC-saturated market, the fares don't seem nearly as out of control as other markets in the country. Legacy carriers offer decent pricing (thinking in terms of CO to EWR, AA to BOS, etc.) for the service--entertainment, meals, airport lounges and the all-important FF programs to which so many travelers cling.

OAK and SJC are not hard to reach airports by any means, either. For those that live in the City, it's not too much of a stretch to cross the bridge (even during rush hour if they know--like many do--the surface streets that will get them right to the on-ramps), and for those who live south of the airport, SJC isn't a hassle either.

Like I said, though, the area itself makes sense population wise, but how much lower could VirginUSA possibly drop the prices with the LCC presence at the three airports...

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L
 
gigneil
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:20 pm

I dunno. Every SFO-IAD flight I've ever taken has been $2000.

N
 
FLY777UAL
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:24 pm

Do you normally have a habit of buying what seem to be walk-up First Class tickets while traveling, Gigneil?

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L
 
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Aaron747
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:36 pm

I don't know what Bay Area you're familiar with UAL, but OAK and SJC are by no means easy to get to for SFO's primary market. Driving, forget it - 101 is a parking lot southbound from San Mateo on every weekday afternoon and 280, while a veritable autobahn most of its length, grinds to a halt in Sunnyvale and ends up saving little time overall to SJC.

OAK? Please. I only use it because it's a 20 minute BART ride from my home in the east bay. Everyone I know who lives on the other side loathes both rail and road options. The lower deck of the Bay Bridge is a *mess* from noon on any day of the week and one never knows what mayhem will await them on the Nasty Nimitz once off. With BART, while only a 20 minute jaunt to the Coliseum station from downtown, you've got that *horrid* shuttle connection, especially now that they're doing work on the Hegenberger flyover ramp and are routing everything through 98th Ave - where the railroad crossing backs everything up at all random hours of the day. The last three times I've taken the shuttle it has taken close to 30 minutes to reach the airport from the station.

On fares, only the most competitive transcon sectors seem to have any real good prices come sale time. Only mileage hogs and business travelers who can afford the expense with the time value to avoid the OAK mess would opt to pay $220 to LAX on UAL when they can do it for $75 on WN.
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S12PPL
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:37 pm

No kidding...If your paying 2 grand to fly to IAD, your getting ripped off by someone!
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FLY777UAL
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:53 pm

Funny enough, it's the same one I'm sure you are familiar with!  Smile I think you might tend to embellish just a tad, as I make the trek from SMF to SFO at least twice a week... While by no means is it always 100% smooth sailing all of the time, it is hardly ever what I would consider to be inconvenient, especially to save the $145 (per your quote) between WN and UA.

By the same token, I'm sure that the same passengers who would drive to OAK wouldn't mind stopping in, say, MDW, DEN, or PHX, if it meant saving money as well as having the added "convenience" of flying out of SFO.

Don't get me wrong--I'm happy that VS has chosen to make SFO their hub--it does create thousands of jobs, revives the old International Terminal, and makes for great spotting, but I more or less just see it as not the optimal market which a new airline would want to operate in. It seems as if there are others which could not only benefit greater from the service, but would also better suit the dynamics of the airline--the operating flexibility of its aircraft, etc.

Has it been mentioned anywhere that VirginUSA will only operate domestically, or is there a possibility that VirginUSA will turn out to be something akin to Backpack Express (or whatever the new airline is being called...)? I searched through several articles on the internet and none mentioned even the vaguest outline of a market...

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L
 
MAH4546
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:04 pm

Ya maybe now FLL will get an SFO flight. AA isn't moving in on the route so fast so Virgin US may beat them to it.


Virgin USA will most likely serve MIA first over FLL, so an MIA-SFO route would be more likely. Though if VirginUSA ever decides to start FLL-SFO, I would not be surprised if AA quickly follows. One of the main reasons they don't fly FLL-SFO is that there is no non-stop compietition on the route. By flying FLL-LAX/LGA/BOS, etc., they grab cusomters who want a non-stop from FLL but don't want to fly out of MIA. In the case of the SFO, if passengers want a non-stop, they have to go to MIA.
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:14 pm

Ummm.....we(jetBlue) flying into OAK, SJC, and SAC so we will not have any affect on VUSA at SFO and visa versa. I do look forward to shooting them at LAX though.
 
gigneil
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:31 pm

Anything less than 7 days on United, for coach class, frequently is still in the $2000 range.

N
 
United777
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:51 pm

 
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RayChuang
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:21 pm

First, I think VirginUSA using SFO as a hub is not as bad as you think.

Two reasons: 1) I'm very sure that VirginUSA's planes will have full ICAO Category 3B autoland systems installed as standard, which means they can operate in and out of SFO even in bad weather conditions (except for really bad winter storms) and 2) VirginUSA knows that the new BART connection to SFO is underutilized, and that SFO BART station makes it possible to cater to passengers from both Contra Costa and Alameda counties.
 
United777
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:34 pm

Any of you think Alaska Airlines should be worried about anything with VirginUSA coming into it's territory? I'm sure they'll take some passengers away from AS if Virgin starts SFO-SEAPDX flights.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:34 pm

^
Have you seen BART fares lately? It's $12 roundtrip out to CoCo baby. LOL

What 'bad weather' are you speaking of exactly? Bay Area weather is great - it's just the visibility that's atrocious when coastal fog decides to sock in the western half of the region. During summer months whole mornings with 2 mi vis or worse are commonplace.
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Bubbinski
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:38 pm

Interesting.....wonder if Virgin USA's frequent flier program will have a tie in to Virgin Atlantic. If it does that would be a point in its favor, if Virgin USA ever chose to fly to SLC, and if it flew from SLC to LAS, PHX, or SAN. (Unless my ex came back to me I don't think I'd be flying any trips to SFO anytime soon).

Bubbinski
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wilco
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 4:54 pm

Regarding the old international terminal... rumor around SFO is that VirginUSA will initially be using the NEW international terminal's underused gates until the old int'l terminal is ready. Thats what I have heard from some of the SFO gate management crowd. (not the first domestic airline to do this, Airtran does currently and Alaska eyed it briefly).

Maybe well finally see the USAir terminal go away.....

-WILCO
"Ever seen a grown man naked?"
 
BritishMidland
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 5:46 pm

SAN should be part of the game plan for Virgin.
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AeroOzzie
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 7:18 pm

"Any chance of a link between VirginUSA and VirginBlue in Oz? Perhaps the addition of a Virgin flight between SFO and SYD?"

Extremely slim...I don't think a LCC could make a whole lot of money off just tourist traffic between USA and Australia...it's a profitable route for QF and UA because of the high yield traffic. In any case, DJ actually has no connection with it's Virgin Atlantic or Virgin Express parents anymore (and hence not connection with a Virgin USA)...they might as well ditch the Virgin name completely and repaint the entire fleet in Pacific Blue lineage once that brand is more established (although the Virgin brand is strong so there probably isn't a good enough reason to do so). Besides, both carriers don't/will not have the equipment to fly trans-Pacific for a while yet, and DJ seems intent of concentrating on the western side of the Pacific (Pacific Blue, supposed new LCC based in south east asia).

Cheers

AeroOzzie
 
ARCJET
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 8:15 pm

SFO looks pretty good, I was there recently, May 1, 1971.
Charleston, SC
 
ua777222
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 8:38 pm

Looks likes a great feeding ground for Virgin.. What about UA!?! Your not kidding when you say LCC's at every door! I guess Ted might work out for them in the end. I think SFO as a HQ is a good idea and the weather isn't THAT bad! Time will tell how it will all turn out!

UA777222
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Aaron747
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 10:45 pm

Oh, yes, I will certainly have three words on tip of tongue with VUSA's arrival:

United, watch out.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
elwood64151
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 10:56 pm

Where's the real competition aside from the legacy tenants, both of whom haven't figured out how to really avoid LCC-induced vulnerabilities?

Let's see... There's AirTran at SFO... WN at OAK, SJC and SMF (just across the bay!), B6 at OAK and SJC... F9 at SFO, SJC and SMF... HP at SFO, OAK, SJC and SMF... TZ at SFO...

So, yeah, there's LCC competition in the Bay area...

and that's 2 million folks right there.

2 million folks, but only 940,000 workers... San Francisco is a market that, in terms of personal income, is only as large as San Diego. You have to add in Oakland and San Jose before the Bay Area really becomes "huge." In fact, personal income in the Oakland area is slightly higher than in SF, and San Jose's is significantly higher than both, even with lower average income.

God I love the statistical abstract!

I dunno. Every SFO-IAD flight I've ever taken has been $2000.

Dear God! Try flying Frontier for once!



I don't know if SFO is a good idea. There is quite a lot of LCC competition in the region, and the weather is attrocious. They'd need the most advanced bad-weather landing systems available, and that'll cost.

Even still, Branson has proven that, for the most part, he knows what he's doing. Good luck to him.

-Edit-

By the way, I just looked up leaving tomorrow on F9 and coming back next day: $635 SFO-IAD. I'll grant you, not the most convenient times, but still...

[Edited 2004-06-05 16:00:57]
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
ltbewr
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 11:02 pm

I wonder who will 'own' Virgin USA? Who will own the 75%+ of stock ownership in USA citizen hands? Is this being treated as a separate company with it's own stock?
Will this company mainly exist to connect various US cities to VS hubs? (EWR, JFK, MIA for example?)
As to HQ in NY, that makes sense due to the VS operations at JFK and EWR as well as the record stores, other subs in NYC already.
 
ChiGB1973
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 11:03 pm

$2000 - SFO-IAD? Just a suggestion, take TZ to DCA and a cab to IAD. Take the red eye tonight, return tomorrow night, save $1500, minus the cab ride. Hell, you could hire a limo and still save a grand.

SFO was courting TZ pretty heavily at one time. I am not sure what happened? I think the lack of planes. I'm still awaiting the 100 seater order.

Anyone got info on investors? It's a tough time to get money for an airline. CO and AA will saturate the area with seats, fuel prices (maybe there will be a break a year from now) and other LCC competition though WN is going to have to get some type of IFE, B6 and FL are going to have contract problems in due order. Capitalism at its best. But still not going to be a great return on money for anyone investing.

M
 
atcboy73
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sat Jun 05, 2004 11:27 pm

A low cost carrier based in two of the highest cost cities in the country.....................ah.................not to mention the world?

And flying out of one of the most delay prone airports in the country?
.
.
.
.
.
.
ah..........ok?

Doest this sound interesting.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sun Jun 06, 2004 12:26 am

Does VUSA plan to have a hub and spoke system through SFO or a point-to-point operation that could include OAK, SJC and SMF?
 
tommy767
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sun Jun 06, 2004 3:14 am

This is going to flop. Can Virgin REALLY compete with United at SFO? I think virgin is in for a surprise.

Let's not forget that TED is also out there (Denver.) Maybe United could put a few TED routes at SFO for some X-TREME competition.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
ckfred
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sun Jun 06, 2004 3:24 am

It will be interesting to see if VirginUSA goes into ORD or MDW. As it is now, the only space at ORD is in the International Terminal (T5). Since DL has cut back on flying into ORD, it could use some DL gates, which NK currently does.

B6 wants 4 or 5 gates before it will commit to starting operations. Unless the airport can get some underutilized UA gates, that won't happen. And UA won't have any interest in subletting space to a competitor on the SFO route.

Would Sir Richard have any interest in MDW? Now that the gate complex is virtually complete, there probably is some space available.
 
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scbriml
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sun Jun 06, 2004 3:27 am

Can Virgin REALLY compete with United at SFO?

To paraphrase JFK, "Ask not if VirginUSA can compete with UA, but ask can UA compete with VirginUSA?"

Mr Branson is one smart cookie - he's not going to make a major mistake in this. I can guarantee it.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
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FATFlyer
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RE: VirginUSA - SFO The Winner; NYC For Admin Only

Sun Jun 06, 2004 3:39 am

Here is another article from San Francisco, different than the ones posted above. This article includes the quote: "Virgin said it will be the only airline with its principal operations based in California."

SFO lands new carrier Virgin USA -- 1,500 jobs
Airline sets sights on low-fare market; corporate center to be based in N.Y.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/06/05/MNG1K71GGL1.DTL
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