Cory6188
Topic Author
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Hubs Without Direct LCC Competition?

Sun Jun 06, 2004 5:37 am

After learning of Virgin USA's decision to have their base for operations in SFO, giving UA competition at their last hub without a LCC base, does that leave CO and NW as the only carriers without a strong LCC presence at any of their hubs?

AA has AirTran at DFW, WN/ATA at MDW (in competition with ORD), WN at LAX, B6 at JFK, and numerous carriers at FLL (in competition with MIA).

DL has AirTran at both ATL and DFW, with ATL taking a major hit as a result.

UA has F9 at DEN, WN/ATA at MDW, WN at LAX, Independence Air at IAD, and now Virgin USA at SFO.

US has WN at PHL, and PIT is really only a quasi-hub for them by now.

By comparison, there is nothing at DTW and MSP, and CO has IAH and CLE essentially to itself (WN's stations there are very limited). EWR has limited routes from Song, which is apparently dying anyway. B6 at JFK could be considered a threat to EWR, but EWR has its own population base from much of NJ.

What do you think?
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: Hubs Without Direct LCC Competition?

Sun Jun 06, 2004 5:40 am

How about Charlotte?
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dtwclipper
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RE: Hubs Without Direct LCC Competition?

Sun Jun 06, 2004 5:40 am

Gee, Spirit has a pretty large aray of movements at DTW, and WN is also not that small in the motor city!
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LAS757300
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RE: Hubs Without Direct LCC Competition?

Sun Jun 06, 2004 5:45 am

You are correct when it comes to Minneapolis. The limited flights by Frontier, ATA, Air Tran and Sun Country don't pose a serious challenge to NW hegemony.

However, Detroit does have Southwest and Spirit. Those two don't rival Air Tran's presence in ATL but I could see a day when Detroit gets some good LCC service.
KMSP
 
luv2fly
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RE: Hubs Without Direct LCC Competition?

Sun Jun 06, 2004 5:53 am

Hello, what about CVG - That is all Delta, all the time.
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SHUPirate1
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RE: Hubs Without Direct LCC Competition?

Sun Jun 06, 2004 5:57 am

Luv-No Low Cost Carrier serves CVG, period...
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luv2fly
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RE: Hubs Without Direct LCC Competition?

Sun Jun 06, 2004 6:04 am

I know I thought that was what the question is?
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
Cory6188
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RE: Hubs Without Direct LCC Competition?

Sun Jun 06, 2004 6:35 am

Good point. I didn't even think of CVG - it seems to be more of an RJ hub, so I think more of ATL and SLC as DL's true hubs. I see CLE for CO as being similar to CVG - almost all RJ's while EWR and IAH have the major routes.
 
COEWRNJ
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RE: Hubs Without Direct LCC Competition?

Sun Jun 06, 2004 6:38 am

SLC is more of a RJ hub for DL than CVG is. CVG is DL's second largest hub.
 
luv2fly
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RE: Hubs Without Direct LCC Competition?

Sun Jun 06, 2004 6:38 am

Cory6188 good thread, and I agree CO has done a good job with CLE and use there equipment to its best, meaning the RJ's tho we do have a slew of mainline as well. WN has a decent amount of flights tho no real expansion or additions in a long time. Also CLE is a BIG charter market to the Caribbean, Mexico and LAS.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
COSPN
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RE: Hubs Without Direct LCC Competition?

Sun Jun 06, 2004 7:11 am

WN has many flites into HOU and is a big player in Texas and HOU DAL Flites
 
ChiGB1973
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RE: Hubs Without Direct LCC Competition?

Sun Jun 06, 2004 7:50 am

I think CVG will see a lot of cuts over the next few years and not be such a hub for DL.

M
 
deltairlines
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RE: Hubs Without Direct LCC Competition?

Sun Jun 06, 2004 8:09 am

Don't forget that CLE does have Southwest service to BWI, PHX, LAS, MDW, STL, and BNA...

Jeff
 
ouboy79
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RE: Hubs Without Direct LCC Competition?

Sun Jun 06, 2004 9:59 am

DL cut back in CVG? Probably the most successful hub in the system (its nearly all connecting traffic for a city not much bigger than Toledo), why would you suggest such a thing? Sure it may not be Fort Widget (ATL)...but has definitely defended itself against any LCC attack (AirTran and Vanguard).
 
ATA767
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RE: Hubs Without Direct LCC Competition?

Sun Jun 06, 2004 10:13 am

"You are correct when it comes to Minneapolis. The limited flights by Frontier, ATA, Air Tran and Sun Country don't pose a serious challenge to NW hegemony."

ATA has 6 flights a day and does very well out of MSP!
 
Cory6188
Topic Author
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RE: Hubs Without Direct LCC Competition?

Sun Jun 06, 2004 10:19 am

6 flights a day is hardly a great deal of competition. When I say LCC competition, I mean a hub or something along those lines.

F9 at DEN or B6 at JFK is more what I was referring to.
 
COfaninBOS
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RE: Hubs Without Direct LCC Competition?

Mon Jun 07, 2004 4:37 am

IAH needs some more low cost carriers.

WN has 6 flights a day to Love Field in Dallas.

F9 has 3 flights to Denver.

HP has 5 flights to Phoenix.

That's it.

I'd like to see B6 and FL enter the scene. FL currently has flights to Atlanta from Hobby but I could see them doing well with 4 flights a day from IAH as well.
 
Cory6188
Topic Author
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RE: Hubs Without Direct LCC Competition?

Mon Jun 07, 2004 7:10 am

How maxxed out is Terminal A? CO has all of B, C, part of D (which is only used for international carriers anyway), and E. If any new LCC's wanted to come to IAH, they would have to use A.
 
USAIRWAYS321
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RE: Hubs Without Direct LCC Competition?

Mon Jun 07, 2004 7:13 am

I think that CLT is the largest hub with the least amount of LCC presence. The only LCC that does serve CLT is ATA, and they only fly to MDW 4 times daily.
 
elwood64151
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RE: Hubs Without Direct LCC Competition?

Mon Jun 07, 2004 7:13 am

Don't forget that CLE is complaining about FL's presence at CAK. While not large, FL is definetely cutting into CO's profits there, particularly with the CAK-LGA route, which hurts CO's ability to ratchet-up the fares on CLE-New York.
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luv2fly
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RE: Hubs Without Direct LCC Competition?

Mon Jun 07, 2004 7:21 am

Good point Elwood64151 - Tho I believe it is CVG that is the hub with no LCC's and one that I do not see changing anytime soon. DL has lost market share to FL in ATL, they are not going to let in happen in CVG really the last fortress hub left if you think about it.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
skibum9
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RE: Hubs Without Direct LCC Competition?

Mon Jun 07, 2004 7:30 am

ChiGB1973,

How in the world can you say that CVG will probably see a lot of cuts in the next few years, to a point that it will not be such a hub. I see the complete opposite. As DL goes forward with re-evaluating its entire business model, I would not be surprised to see them start to shift some of the ATL traffic to CVG. Think about it. DL in ATL is getting hit hard by AirTran, and as a result they are not getting as high of yields as they are out of CVG. Also, there are some operational drawbacks to keeping such a mega-hub, like ATL. Look at every time ATL gets some weather, it basically impacts the entire DL system. This happens more often than you would think and adds undue OPEX. By spreading more flights to differing hubs you can minimize weather impacts to the entire system. As a result of these two points I think you may start to see additional traffic out of CVG, probably East-West traffic and more international, while ATL maintains most of the North-South traffic, as well as international.
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gkirk
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RE: Hubs Without Direct LCC Competition?

Mon Jun 07, 2004 7:43 am

BA at LHR? The closest is BE but they operate flights for AF out of LHR. Or do you include EZY at LGW/LTN/STN and FR out of STN as competition for BA @ LHR?
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