cactushp
Posts: 324
Joined: Mon May 10, 2004 3:36 am

First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Wed Jun 09, 2004 5:35 am


This is a rumor:

There might be a huge order for 60 Airbus's and 18 757's.

I have no details, just that.

But this would support the expansion process for AWA.

And no, I'm not making this up.

Comments, thoughts?
Sorry, I was on the landline
 
deltaflyertoo
Posts: 1478
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 3:18 pm

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Wed Jun 09, 2004 5:39 am

Where are the 757s coming from? Boeing going to open up the line if they are brand new?
 
Lindy
Posts: 4722
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 10:42 pm

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Wed Jun 09, 2004 5:39 am

I'm missing just one HP 757 to complete their fleet and now I will miss 19. Something new to look out for.

If its true...

Rafal
BWIADCA - Nikon D100
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Wed Jun 09, 2004 5:40 am

I am assuming the order for 757s will be from lessors.

N
 
DIA
Posts: 3053
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2001 2:24 pm

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Wed Jun 09, 2004 5:40 am

Isn't the 757 line gearing down already?
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Wed Jun 09, 2004 5:41 am

It takes 9 to 12 months to procure parts for a 757. The 757s will already be in existence.

Sounds like the National fleet to me.

N
 
isitsafenow
Posts: 3413
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:22 am

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Wed Jun 09, 2004 5:53 am

I think I mentioned the five-sevens in a different thread a couple of weeks back. The number 18 seems a little high but 6 or 8 additional used five-sevens is what my HP deep throat told me. That should happen this year.
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
FoxBravo
Posts: 2767
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2003 1:34 pm

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Wed Jun 09, 2004 5:59 am

It's safe to say that they wouldn't be new 757s, but right now is probably a pretty good time to pick up some used ones, so that's not such a crazy idea. Resale values and lease rates for a particular aircraft type generally decrease substantially when production of that type winds down, so that may very well be happening with the 757.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 7

Wed Jun 09, 2004 6:54 am

The only conceivable reason to delay closure of the 757 line is if HP desires 757-300s. I don't believe there are any parked and they aren't scheduled to make any more. Boeing extended the MD-83 line beyond the original closure date when they received a late order from TWA for 23 aircraft in 97 or 98. I suppose 18 757-300s is as good as 23 MD-83s?
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
N670UW
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 9:55 am

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Wed Jun 09, 2004 7:02 am

is what my HP deep throat told me.

Ewww...

Sounds like the National fleet to me.

Since Chris Kilroy hasn't updated his fleet census, where are the National 757's parked, and how many are there? What type of engines are on them?



670
 
AvObserver
Posts: 2391
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2002 7:40 am

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Wed Jun 09, 2004 7:19 am

Yes, I've both a thought and a comment. How about NOT posting something that's only a rumor when you don't even cite a source? Without giving us one, for all we know, you very well could be making it up. Now tell us what you're basing this thread on if you want it to have any credibility. Sorry to be blunt but without quoting any foundation for your thread, how the heck do you expect us to take it seriously, even if it's only about a rumor? Thank you.  Yeah sure
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 7

Wed Jun 09, 2004 7:19 am

According to Airfleets.com only four or five of the former National 757-200 remain parked at Marana. I believe 5 of the 18 aircraft in the National fleet when ops were discontinued are in China being converted to freighters.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
flyingbronco05
Posts: 3484
Joined: Fri May 10, 2002 11:43 am

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Wed Jun 09, 2004 7:36 am

Can you clarify something for me?

This is a rumor:

And no, I'm not making this up.


A rumor is something that is not true. But if you are not making it up, then it is not a rumor. Care to explain?

FB05
Never Trust Your Fuel Gauge
 
travatl
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2001 4:57 pm

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Wed Jun 09, 2004 7:40 am

Some are with Pace...RB211s.

Travis
 
Spacepope
Posts: 3135
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Wed Jun 09, 2004 8:07 am

N670UW:

I got bitched out last week by Chris Kilroy over on Airdisaster.com for having the gall to complain that he hasn't updated his list in 18 months. He says that I have no right to complain since I never offered to help. So I sent him an update of about 20 scrappings that he didn't have updated... he's been quiet since.

He claims that there is a major update coming soon, with 10 volunteers working on it. I think it would have been easier just to start a new list....
The last of the famous international playboys
 
cactushp
Posts: 324
Joined: Mon May 10, 2004 3:36 am

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Wed Jun 09, 2004 8:51 am

We may be on different sides here but a rumor is something that could be true but could not be proven.

Now....................Back on topic.

It's probaly pretty unlikely that HP will get 757-300 since they don't have any currently in their fleet and they only have the 757-200.

Oh yea,
BTW

The source is a pilot from AMERICA WEST. Don't know his phone number, address, etc. etc.
Sorry, I was on the landline
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 7

Wed Jun 09, 2004 9:05 am

The only conceivable reason to delay closure of the 757 line is if HP desires 757-300s.

It can't and won't happen.


A rumor is something that is not true.


What? A rumor is something you've heard that hasn't been confirmed. Rumors frequently are true or turn out to be true.

N
 
smcmac32msn
Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 9:25 am

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Wed Jun 09, 2004 9:17 am

Somebody earlier asked about the old National 757's. They seem to be in good condition based on pictures from MHV (Mojave, CA).


View Large View Medium

Photo © Jorgos Tsambikakis



EDIT: Here is the post I was referring to:
Since Chris Kilroy hasn't updated his fleet census, where are the National 757's parked, and how many are there? What type of engines are on them?

[Edited 2004-06-09 02:19:31]
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
sunilgupta
Posts: 766
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2000 12:15 pm

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Wed Jun 09, 2004 12:16 pm

Two of the National 757s (N506NA and N517NA) are flying for Avianca Colombia. I flew on N506NA a few days back.

Sunil
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 7

Wed Jun 09, 2004 12:40 pm

About time. There were lots of rumors a few months ago and nothing happened. This might mean that HP's new transcon routes were a success and perhaps they will start more of them with these new planes.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
scottysair
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:07 pm

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Wed Jun 09, 2004 12:51 pm

Well, is that something else about HP fleet and will even make on orders with new B757-200 or 300.
 
dbo861
Posts: 851
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 2:20 am

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Wed Jun 09, 2004 12:53 pm

How many more Airbuses are the still waiting for on their current order? 78 more aircraft is a huge increase in their fleet, where else could they expand to. Could we see alot more international service from them...and maybe, possibly some overseas routes? Or maybe they'll use the increase in capacity to start a new hub.
 
scottysair
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:07 pm

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Wed Jun 09, 2004 12:57 pm

I am not sure which one of those new hub and already remember with CMH back of year ago and they are no longer use them. Also, I think about LAX is doing well with the transcontinental flight from LAX-JFK/BOS.
 
ktliem@YVR
Posts: 158
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 3:25 pm

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:35 pm

From http://www.airtrading.com/jta.htm#b757

Plenty 757's, even 300's, to choose from - On this site only, a total of 30 757's are offered. I'm sure there are more on sale in the 2nd hand market.

------------------------------------------------------------------
B757-200 Aircraft available for lease from Nov04 until Apr05. RB211-535E4 engines. MTOW=113.4K Kg.

B757-200 ETOPS aircraft available for immediate sale or dry lease. RB211-535E4 engines. 24J/150Y pax configuration.

B757-200 Two aircraft available for lease only Jun/Aug04. PW2037 engines. Manf. 1997.

B757-200 Two aircraft available for immediate sale. RB211-535E4 enignes. Manf. 1988. TT=52.2/56.4Khr, TC=22.7/19.2Kcy. 228Y pax configuration.

B757-200 Six aircraft available for sale or lease Apr05. RB211-535E4 engines. Manf. 2000. TT=11Kyc, TC=9Kcy. Fresh C-check.

B757-200 Aircraft available for wet lease. RB211-535E4 engines. 233Y pax configuration.

B757-200 Three aircraft available for sale or lease 05Q2. PW2040 engines. Manf. 1990. TT=44.3-46.4Khr, TC=15.8-16.6Kcy. New listing/additional aircraft

B757-200 Aircraft available for lease. RB211-535E4 engines. Manf. 1987.

B757-200 Aircraft available for wet or dry lease from Nov04 until Apr05. RB211-535E4 engines. New listing/additional aircraft

B757-200 Two aircraft available for immediate sale. PW2040 engines. Manf. 1992/93. 220Y pax configuration. New listing/additional aircraft

B757-200 Aircraft available for lease Jun04. PW2037 engines. Manf. 1993. TT=32.5Khr, TC=12.2Kcy. MTOW=230Klb. New listing/additional aircraft

B757-200 Aircraft available for immediate dry lease. PW2037M engines. Manf. 1992. TT=35.6Khr, TC=13.2Kcy. MTOW=250Klb. New listing/additional aircraft

B757-200 Aircraft available for lease or sale Dec04. RB211-535E4 engines. Manf. 1990. New listing/additional aircraft

B757-200F Freighter aircraft available for lease or sale Dec04. RB211-535E4 engines. Manf. 1989.

B757-225 Aircraft available for sale or lease. RB211-535E4 engines. Manf. 1984.

B757-300 Aircraft available for lease Oct04. RB211-535E4B engines. Manf. 2000. 265Y pax configuration.

B757-300 Three aircraft available for immediate sale. RB211-535E4B engines. MTOW=270Klb. 252Y pax configuration.

B757-300 Aircraft available for lease from Nov04 until Apr05. RB211-535E4B engines. MTOW=122.4K Kg.
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 7

Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:23 pm

Kinda of an aside in this thread, but TZ should snap up the 753 with the RR engines that's for outright sale, maybe it's the Icelandic bird, they only have a single 753 in their fleet?

[Edited 2004-06-09 07:34:06]
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
acidradio
Crew
Posts: 1595
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2001 3:19 pm

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:30 pm

How many operators actually have 753's? I know there are several, but there can't be too many! Who is selling?
Ich haben zwei Platzspielen und ein Microphone
 
trevd
Posts: 332
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:51 pm

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:53 pm

This is ridiculous... The 757 line is closed, done. And almost all of the ex-National a/c are placed. You can't find a good Rolls E4 powered aircraft in this market if you tried.

A320's on the other hand are plentiful; can't swing a dead cat without hitting one and lease rates are below $100k so if they can get good airplanes in decent condition, that might not be a bad play for AWA.
 
Shenzhen
Posts: 1664
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2003 12:11 pm

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Wed Jun 09, 2004 6:55 pm

I believe that Condor are quietly marketing 13 757-300s, so this could certainly be a source, even if it is through a third party (somebody buys them and leases them to AWA).

Cheers,
 
TriStar500
Posts: 4411
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 1999 9:50 pm

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Wed Jun 09, 2004 7:22 pm

DE is keeping their entire fleet of B753 for the medium term, however, they have just withdrawn and sold their fleet of B752 to a Russian leasing company.

Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
User avatar
solnabo
Posts: 5005
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:53 am

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Wed Jun 09, 2004 9:53 pm

I´ll pop my Airbuscork when it´s on paper and not a rumor  Big grin

Mike//SE
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
Guest

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Wed Jun 09, 2004 9:55 pm

didnt they just order or exersize options for 30odd A32X's. Wouldnt they have waited and made an almighty 90 plane order in one go.
 
access-air
Posts: 1576
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2000 5:30 pm

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Wed Jun 09, 2004 11:52 pm

Like Olivia Newton-John sings.....
"Once the rumour spreads, the truth is just a thing of the past...."
From the song and album entitled "The Rumour."

I almost wonder if employees purposly spread rumours around just to sit back and watch how fast they will spread thru this forum here...And with the busy-body chatter boxes we have here it doesnt take to long. Once again half of the threads about such things are nothing more than people's pipe dreams of how they want things to be.....

So, for the love of God quit spreading rumours unless you can back them up with Facts... A rumour that is heard from a pilot is just as suspect as rumour youd hear anywhere else at an airline. Just because he wears bars on his shoulders doesnt make him the all knowing being that you dreamers think he is...

Access-Air








Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:17 am

This is ridiculous... The 757 line is closed, done. And almost all of the ex-National a/c are placed. You can't find a good Rolls E4 powered aircraft in this market if you tried.

A320's on the other hand are plentiful; can't swing a dead cat without hitting one and lease rates are below $100k so if they can get good airplanes in decent condition, that might not be a bad play for AWA.


I think you have this backwards.

N
 
flyboyaz
Posts: 2077
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 11:32 am

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:28 am

Interesting....I've heard nothing about it...but I don't get to talk to many HP people these days.

The B753 would be a good compliment to our existing fleet. There are numerous routes that could use extra capacity. Having a 220+ seat plane would allow us to dump some of those dual departures. When I spoke to someone in corporate, they stated they don't like running the "wing-tip" flights...he called it a poor man's widebody.

The large Airbus order might happen to replace some of the B733's...possibly.
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
cactushp
Posts: 324
Joined: Mon May 10, 2004 3:36 am

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:51 am

The question is is where is HP going to go with all these possible new planes?

It's obvious that there going to add more flights and maybe go to new destinations.
Sorry, I was on the landline
 
dbo861
Posts: 851
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 2:20 am

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Thu Jun 10, 2004 2:48 am

"There might be a huge order for 60 Airbus's and 18 757's."

Any chance some of the 60 Airbuses could be other than from the 32X family?
 
nycfuturepilot
Posts: 773
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 2:50 am

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Thu Jun 10, 2004 2:56 am

I'd much prefer to see 757s ordered but wouldnt the A321 make sense for them?
Father, Son, HOYA spirit
 
SegmentKing
Posts: 3224
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2000 7:16 am

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Thu Jun 10, 2004 2:57 am

Airbus for $100k a month? you've got to be kidding me. An Embraer 120 is going for $35k a month!

Try around $415k a month for an Airbus A320 and that's a long used one!

-n
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
dbo861
Posts: 851
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 2:20 am

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:01 am

Actually, they've made quite clear that the A321 doesn't make sense to them. It doesn't perform as well in the hot climate as the 757.
 
jmc1975
Posts: 2884
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:04 am

Nycfuturepilot,
America West has stated on numerous occasions that the A321 is not a suitable replacement for the 757 because of its inferior range and hot-weather performance. The 757 will give them many more opportunities to expand into markets that cannot be served by any of the A32X family.
.......
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:26 am

HP is certainly one of the people that really very much needs their 757s.

I think they should pick up those 753s as well, whilst they still can.

I doubt somewhat that they will.

N
 
cactushp
Posts: 324
Joined: Mon May 10, 2004 3:36 am

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:52 am

Is a Michael Friemann here?

If so, please explain what your e-mail was about.

CactusHP
Sorry, I was on the landline
 
User avatar
Crosswind
Posts: 2536
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2000 4:34 am

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Thu Jun 10, 2004 4:17 am

Gigneil,
TrevD is absolutely correct about the second-hand B757 market. Good Rolls-powered aircraft are very scarce, the ones that are available tend to be older aircraft in excess of 10 years old. By my rekoning there are only around 10 RB211-powered B757-200s on the used market for long-term lease/sale. Many of the aircraft provided in the list above by Ktliem@yvr are being offered by airlines wanting to offload some capacity with seasonal leases which would be of no interest to America West.

National went of business in 2002, all but 2 of their aircraft are now placed with other operators...

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © John Higgins - AirTeamImages


18 used RB211-powered 757s would be virtually impossible to obtain in the current market unless you obtain an entire fleet of aircraft from another operator. If you attempt to build up a fleet of 757s on the current market you will end up with a costly assortment of variants, equipment levels and configurations. You then have to choice of running with the inefficiency that brings, or spending a forturne modifying very different aircraft to a common spec.

On the other hand, availability of PW-powered 757-200s is quite good with the Condor and TWA fleets coming onto the market, it is quite possible to build a reasonably sized fleet of aircraft while maintaining commonality.

Rolls Royce powered 757s have always been more marketable than the Pratt & Whitney powered machinces. Far more customers chose RR, PW only have a reasonable share of the orders because they were chosen by Delta, United and TWA plus UPS and Condor initially, who all have/had large numbers of aircraft in service.

Unfortunately the availability of PW2000-powered 757s doesn't help America West!

Have a look at the availability on Speednews, take a little look at the history of the aircraft on offer, it should partly explain why the last few used 757s currently on offer haven't been placed. The list is by no means a full listing of all 757s available, but it provides a good cross-section.

Speednews

Segment King
A lease rate of $100k per month for a used A320 is reasonable on the current market. Anyone paying $415k for an used A320 is being screwed by the lessor! You should be getting several aircraft for $400k...

The leasing market is heavily in favour of airlines at the moment, rates had to fall because so many aircraft were on the market, and leasing companies had no option but to lower prices to stimulate demand. Lease rates will start to increase again, but they will probably never get back to what they once were. Airlines that have recently re-negotiated leases that were due to expire are at a considerable commercial advantage to those who signed long-term agreeements when the market was at a peak. Lowe lease rates take a huge amonut of pressure of an airlines bottom line.

Seriously though, $415k for an A320, wouldn't touch it.

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
ASTROJET707
Posts: 289
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 9:39 am

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Thu Jun 10, 2004 4:28 am

I don't understand the issue of say HP flying B757s with two engine types. Is it merely cost due to parts inventory required or do cockpit crews have to be certified for each engine type on the B757? If a carrier could get a deal on used B757s with a different engine than their current fleet would the cost be less over time than purchasing newer B757s withthe same engine type? Thanks. The list of used B757s is great info. Thanks to all.

AJ707
 
acvitale
Posts: 1911
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 8:25 am

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Thu Jun 10, 2004 4:53 am

Nate,

Better check your lease rates:

To creditworthy carriers:

EMB120 11-14K per month
MD80 30-45K per month
A320 100-140K per month

I am siding with the other poster

Now if you are not credit worthy then you can triple or quadruple the lease rates.

A C Vitale
 
User avatar
United_fan
Posts: 6355
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 11:11 am

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Fri Jun 11, 2004 1:50 am

There was (is?) a few USAir 757's in Mojave,though these may be ex-EA birds with alot of cycles.......
Champagne For My Real Friends,and Real Pain For My Sham Friends
 
asuflyer05
Posts: 2053
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 8:53 am

RE: First News: AWA Order For 60 Airbus's And 18 757's

Fri Jun 11, 2004 8:19 am

I wouldn't expect to see too many 57s from HP since they don't have too many gates at PHX which are capable of handling them.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Christopher93, David_itl, Google Adsense [Bot], JoeCanuck, oslmgm, pvjin, Qatara340, SCQ83, Someone83, SXI899 and 241 guests