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Boeing Issues Safety Warning Over Jet Cracks

Wed Jun 09, 2004 5:35 pm

Two secondhand Qantas B744's that were grounded last year after severe cracks were found in the fuslage during maintaince have prompted Boeing to issue a world wide safety warning. So far more then 40 Boeing planes have been found with the same problem. So far 32 Boeing 737s, four 747s and seven 757s have been found with severe cracks in the fuslage.

Source http://www.ozflight.com.au/

Please no A v B war
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L-188
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RE: Boeing Issues Safety Warning Over Jet Cracks

Wed Jun 09, 2004 5:42 pm

Please no A v B war

You know if it where a Lockheed, we wouldn't be having these problems.


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worldoftui
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RE: Boeing Issues Safety Warning Over Jet Cracks

Wed Jun 09, 2004 5:47 pm

Never mind an A vs B thing. Whoever made them, there is one clear thing.....

This is bloody worrying. That's quite a high number of aircraft with, what sounds like, quite a severe safety issue.

You know if it where a Lockheed, we wouldn't be having these problems.

LOL L-188, although not quite sure if you are being serious or not!  Big grin


Mark

PS BTW 777ER - Love your signature. 100% factual IMHO!  Smile

 
buckfifty
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RE: Boeing Issues Safety Warning Over Jet Cracks

Wed Jun 09, 2004 6:02 pm

You know if it where a Lockheed, we wouldn't be having these problems.

Lockheed? Bah. According to my figures, the number of Tristars sold last year was 0, which means that they're crap.  Big grin
 
Shenzhen
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RE: Boeing Issues Safety Warning Over Jet Cracks

Wed Jun 09, 2004 6:07 pm

I think the Headline "Boeing Issues Safety Warning" is just a tad bit misleading. There were certain maintenance facilities around the world, that when the airplane was stripped for repainting, used a hard sharp object remove sealant and or cut decals that had been applied to the side of the airplane. Then they re-sealed/repainted the airplane covering the damage.

Over time (years), the scratches, cuts, gouges (whatever you want to call them) to the skin can crack due to fatigue. Most, if not all airplanes that have had their paint stripped at these handful of MROs, have been inspected and appropriate action taken.

Lets stop the hysteria before it starts.

Cheers

 
worldoftui
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RE: Boeing Issues Safety Warning Over Jet Cracks

Wed Jun 09, 2004 6:16 pm

Dont think that I was hysterical?

But a "severe" crack sounds fairly serious, no?

Mark

Don't worry though. Wont panic. No-one need slap me or anything to calm me down  Big grin
 
greatansett
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RE: Boeing Issues Safety Warning Over Jet Cracks

Wed Jun 09, 2004 6:22 pm

Wasn't it this type of problem that led to the Ansett 767-200 grounding in 2001?
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voodoo
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RE: Boeing Issues Safety Warning Over Jet Cracks

Wed Jun 09, 2004 6:31 pm

re: Lockheed, no problems

Actually, and I am a big Tristar fan, they did have some wing spar crack problems IIRC. I am not aware that they led to any incidents (incl. any groundings or anything) though.
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N754PR
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RE: Boeing Issues Safety Warning Over Jet Cracks

Wed Jun 09, 2004 7:07 pm

I hope they find all these problems soon, we dont want more planes doing a CI 742!!
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ltbewr
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RE: Boeing Issues Safety Warning Over Jet Cracks

Wed Jun 09, 2004 11:39 pm

This is rather disturbing. There are apparently serious flaws in the instructions from Boeing on how to work on these planes to limit this risk or people who work on these planes are taking shortcuts. Let us remember that shortcuts as to engine removal on DC-10's lead to the crash at ORD 25 years ago.
 
greasespot
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RE: Boeing Issues Safety Warning Over Jet Cracks

Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:10 am

I look at it this way. At least they are warning and not covering it up.

GS
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ua777222
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RE: Boeing Issues Safety Warning Over Jet Cracks

Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:16 am

I agree with Greasespot, at least the airlines can do something about it. Does this have anything to do with that rumor of BA's fleet of 744's being grounded a while back? And is it the way that a/c was built or is it in the engine? The rumor was that the RR were having issues...

UA777222
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Vorticity
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RE: Boeing Issues Safety Warning Over Jet Cracks

Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:18 am

Cracks on big planes like are no big deal when caught early,

Crack propogation lead to the deadly DC-10 accident in Chicago. When caught early perhaps is the important part there.

You remind me of a bunch of whiney old women with nothing to do but get all a quiver over something that is part of normal life at an airline.
Quit hiding in your old-lady purses...


That wasn't really necesary, we can discuss this without attacking people

[Edited 2004-06-09 17:19:59]
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Vorticity
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RE: Boeing Issues Safety Warning Over Jet Cracks

Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:26 am

There are various amounts of wear and tear that aircraft go through. From cracks and scratches to dings, dents and holes. How any of these are repaired, and how they are dealt with depends on the severity, their location and their impact on the aircraft.

Hidden cracks are dangerous! Because you don't know about them.

I don't know what these cracks that are mentioned are, how big, how severe, etc
Thermodynamics and english units don't mix...
 
RT514
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RE: Boeing Issues Safety Warning Over Jet Cracks

Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:28 am

Disturbing. I truly hope that this is an isolated turn of events and not indicative of something larger.

Thanks for the post.
 
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RE: Boeing Issues Safety Warning Over Jet Cracks

Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:50 am

The subject of this thread is not at all Lockheed, Boeing or anything like that.

It's all about unacceptable maintenance procedures. No more, no less.

When such things have been discovered on 40+ Boeing planes, then you can be damn sure that it has also been found on dozens of MDD, Airbus and Lockheed planes.

The only interesting things are:
- Who did that?
- Who bought second hand planes from those who did it?
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gearup
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RE: Boeing Issues Safety Warning Over Jet Cracks

Thu Jun 10, 2004 4:17 am

This sort of thing has happened before with all aircraft builders. This is why there is a rigorous series of inspections to allow monitoring of the aging of the airframe to ensure that the aircraft performs as it should as predicted by testing and computer models. I remember being delayed departing YYZ because AC removed the 747-200 fleet from service for inspection due to cracking in the upper deck region. They found cracks, fixed them according to Boeing instructions and those airplanes flew for years afterward with no issues related to that incident. They could still be flying somewhere today. I would not minimize the seriouness of these sort of things but it is not time to write Boeing off as a builder of junk airplanes because all builders see these sort of issues. If you happen to be looking out an airport window at a Boeing jet that you are about to board while reading this thread, relax, don't worry about it just enjoy your flight!!
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RE: Boeing Issues Safety Warning Over Jet Cracks

Thu Jun 10, 2004 5:54 am

Crack propogation lead to the deadly DC-10 accident in Chicago. When caught early perhaps is the important part there

Not quite. The engine separated because the maintenance dudes were detaching the engine and pylon in a completely nonregulation way. Completely avoidable in other words.

Also, the pilots did not have the means to be aware of their split-flap condition. A simple nose down would have saved the plane. Not really their fault though. They followed the book, and unfortunately it bit them in the ass.
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Vorticity
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RE: Boeing Issues Safety Warning Over Jet Cracks

Thu Jun 10, 2004 6:11 am

Not quite. The engine separated because the maintenance dudes were detaching the engine and pylon in a completely nonregulation way. Completely avoidable in other words.

Well, the maintenance personel created the crack. So yes, that case was completely preventable. It point was cracks are dangerous, if they go unchecked it can lead to disaster. I don't know if anyone spotted the crack after the bad procedure, but if they did, it could have been prevented.
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sulman
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RE: Boeing Issues Safety Warning Over Jet Cracks

Thu Jun 10, 2004 7:33 am

The aircraft in question were Ex-Malaysian; it was - as has already been stated - caused by tools used to remove paint. The cracks were picked up during a routine 'D' check.

This is actually pretty old news.
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RE: Boeing Issues Safety Warning Over Jet Cracks

Thu Jun 10, 2004 7:46 am

Sulman, you are right. The aircraft were ex MH and are VH-OEC and VH-OED (I think). Also to GREATANSETT, the Ansett 762's were grounded due to major cracking in the pylon upper link fitting, not the fuselage.

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RE: Boeing Issues Safety Warning Over Jet Cracks

Thu Jun 10, 2004 7:50 am

Then it is what I thought it might be. Improper tool to do the job.

And yes, that comment about Lockheed was specificly aimed at the A vs. B warning.
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bigb
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RE: Boeing Issues Safety Warning Over Jet Cracks

Thu Jun 10, 2004 8:04 am

This is the reason for US Airways.com livery on there older 737s.
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RE: Boeing Issues Safety Warning Over Jet Cracks

Thu Jun 10, 2004 8:19 am

"Nature always sides with the hidden flaw." -Murphy

XV

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LMP737
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RE: Boeing Issues Safety Warning Over Jet Cracks

Thu Jun 10, 2004 9:23 am

"This is rather disturbing. There are apparently serious flaws in the instructions from Boeing on how to work on these planes to limit this risk or people who work on these planes are taking shortcuts. Let us remember that shortcuts as to engine removal on DC-10's lead to the crash at ORD 25 years ago."

LTBEWR:

This is not an issue on how Boeing recommends maintenance of the airplanes it builds. Rather it's an issue of a company using metal scapers to remove paint and or sealant. This is a big no no in maintenance. That's why I have a bunch of plastic scapers in my toolbox. I defy anyone to show me where Boeing, or any aircraft manufacturer, has authorized the use of metal scapers on the skin of their aircraft.
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n685fe
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RE: Boeing Issues Safety Warning Over Jet Cracks

Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:08 pm

The safety bulletin even stated that using plastic scrapers could cause scratches.
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LHcapt2007
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RE: Boeing Issues Safety Warning Over Jet Cracks

Thu Jun 10, 2004 4:57 pm

LMP737 - So in general plastic scrapers are the recommended tool by Boeing? and if so, no one questions the use of metallic scrapers against the manufacturer's "recommended" procedures?
So if you know all about this problem (obviously not just highinsight), why doesn't everyone use plastic scrapers in light of the potentially fateful consequences??

LHcapt2007

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JHSfan
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RE: Boeing Issues Safety Warning Over Jet Cracks

Thu Jun 10, 2004 5:00 pm

The variety of hardness of Plastics is huge. When it comes to removing paint it's generally a good idea to have at tool made by a hard material. Simply makes the work easier. Here hard plastic tools may be good enough. Could also be wood... Ironwood.

But when done on a plane made by aluminium or another sensitive material, it's not acceptable to use too hard a tool.
Using a soft tool I guess, makes the process of removing the paint longer, thereby increasing the maintenance costs. For the week souls this may make them decide to make a shortcut.

Does anyone know if eg. B or A specifies the tools for removing paint more precisely, when it comes to their hardness?

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LMP737
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RE: Boeing Issues Safety Warning Over Jet Cracks

Fri Jun 11, 2004 2:11 am

LHcapt2007:

Why doesn't everyone use plastic or the recommended paint/sealant removal tool? Wish I knew the answer to that. There are many accident/incident reports stating that someone did something that they were not supposed to. Basically as long as there are people in the loop you are going to have these things happen.

N685FE:

The type plastic scraper I use is a soft plastic. They wear out rather quickly and have yet to see them cause any kind of skin damage.
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