Propulsion
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7e7 - What Next?

Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:01 am

If all goes well, the 7e7 should probably turn out to be a wonderful replacement for the A300/A310/757 and especially 767 depending on utilisation by individual airlines. Should this occur and Boeing survive prosperously, what market segment do you think they will turn their attention to next?

I am unsure but would suspect either a new 747 400seat replacement or probably more likely, given their latest market forecast figures, a replacement for the 737NG. Any ideas?
A bus is a vehicle that runs twice as fast when you are after it as when you are in it.
 
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N328KF
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RE: 7e7 - What Next?

Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:12 am

I believe a 737 replacement using 7E7 tech will be next.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
B4REAL
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RE: 7e7 - What Next?

Fri Jun 11, 2004 6:05 am

eRJ - (I know Embraer already has that name - but...) The world's most efficient regional jet. Available in a 28 pax + cargo, 50 pax model in the same airframe and a 68-80 seater (possibly 2 class).

That's my prediction. B4REAL
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
7e72004
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RE: 7e7 - What Next?

Fri Jun 11, 2004 6:06 am

the 7F7?? That would be an interesting system...then the 7G7, 7H7, etc  Big thumbs up
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: 7e7 - What Next?

Fri Jun 11, 2004 6:16 am

The world's most efficient regional jet. Available in a 28 pax + cargo, 50 pax model in the same airframe and a 68-80 seater (possibly 2 class).

Niether Airbus or Boeing is much interested in the RJ market. Airbus got close with the AC-15X that was to be partnered with a Chinese firm, but nothing happend with that.

Boeing will probably turn to a complete 737 replacement, not another NG program. My prediction is a 130, 160, 190 seat aircraft with 2+2+2 narrow-widebody seating, maybe a hybrid tube-wing/BWB profile, ultra-high bypass engines, and all-composite construction. WN will probably dictate most of the requirements for this aircraft and their launch order alone will practically make them risk sharing partners (100+ to replace 737-300 fleet), with an EOS of 2015. Hopefully Boeing will keep this project in the US of A....

Something I forgot to add- GE, RR, and PW will fight like dogs to get on this aircraft. The CFM56 and IAE V2500 will probably not be contenders, and an all-new core will probably be in order. If PW doesn't get on this airframe it will probably be the end of their commercial market. Even though the 737 is exclusive with the CFM56, I don't see why the 737-Replacement can't have a swappable pylon and thus more than one engine supplier.

[Edited 2004-06-10 23:19:52]
 
Greg
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RE: 7e7 - What Next?

Fri Jun 11, 2004 6:17 am

Whatever the market wants, really.

But they've already said that the 73NG would be the next 'likely' project.
Availability sometime around 2012+.

Since this is the aviations largest sector 130-200pax, I would imagine both Airbus and Boeing will likely respond at about the same time....

RJ's? No way.
 
planemaker
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RE: 7e7 - What Next?

Fri Jun 11, 2004 6:33 am

"Airbus got close with the AC-15X that was to be partnered with a Chinese firm."

?????????????????????????????????


Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: 7e7 - What Next?

Fri Jun 11, 2004 6:49 am

?????????????????????????????????

My mistake, the AE31X family that would have consisted of the AE317 and AE316-



http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRTypen/FRAE31X.htm

http://www.airwar.ru/enc_e/aliner/ae31x.html

http://www.airbus.com/airbus4u/articles_detail.asp?ae_id=648

Sorry for the confusion, with the alphabet soup of airplane designations it's hard to be correct all the time.

[Edited 2004-06-10 23:50:13]
 
AvObserver
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RE: 7e7 - What Next?

Fri Jun 11, 2004 6:55 am

Tuvalu, he means the AE31X regional airliner that possibly would be giving Embraer fits had it come to fruition...

http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRNews/FR970525.htm#AE31X
 
planemaker
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RE: 7e7 - What Next?

Fri Jun 11, 2004 7:00 am

No problem!! I'm just teasing you... like what about High Speed Rail by the EOS 2015 of the SWA's BWB/tube planes??  Wink/being sarcastic
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
gigneil
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RE: 7e7 - What Next?

Fri Jun 11, 2004 8:49 am

The AE31x would still be 100+ seats, if I'm not mistaken.

I think Boeing should focus their efforts next on the 747. The 737NG is still selling like hotcakes, whereas the 747 barely sells a thing.

They need an all new entrant in the 350-500 seat market. If they get in there good, then they'll have some sales. The A380 is too large for that segment.

N
 
B4REAL
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RE: 7e7 - What Next?

Fri Jun 11, 2004 8:58 am

DfwRevolution: you're right, sorry about that. I thought the post was directed to the industry as a whole, not just Boeing.
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
planemaker
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RE: 7e7 - What Next?

Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:19 am

Gigneil, you are correct. The A316 was to have been the 105-seat aircraft. And the A317, the 125-seat aircraft. The AE31X family of regional jets, cancelled in August/98, would have been developed by a joint venture comprising Airbus with a 39% stake, Aviation Industries of China (46%) and Singapore Technologies Aerospace (15%).

Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
Guest

RE: 7e7 - What Next?

Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:07 am

If all goes well, the 7e7 should probably turn out to be a wonderful replacement for the A300/A310/757 and especially 767 depending on utilisation by individual airlines.

Looking at the current propasals the A300 763 764 and A332 are the sizes which the 7E7 shall match.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: 7e7 - What Next?

Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:13 am

The AE31x would still be 100+ seats, if I'm not mistaken.

The AE316 would have seated 90-95 passengers and the AE317 would have seated 110-115 passengers. Roughly the same size as the 717 and E190.

I think Boeing should focus their efforts next on the 747. The 737NG is still selling like hotcakes, whereas the 747 barely sells a thing.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to keep the 747 aliave. It would be painful to watch an icon die, but a double-barrel shot into Airbus by taking on both the A330 (7E7) and the A320 (737-R) sounds very tempting.

I'm just teasing you... like what about High Speed Rail by the EOS 2015 of the SWA's BWB/tube planes??

And, just for Planemaker, here is what I had in mind when I said a "tube-wing/BWB hybrid." Excuse my lousy art skills and the fact that my only graphics software is Microsoft Paint. Enjoy-



The blue picture on bottom is the original aircraft I used as my starting point. It happens to be a 767, but I scaled it down to 737 proportions. The black aircraft above is the hybrid design.

The wingbox/wing glove has been abandoned in place of a composite lifting body that blends the wing-ends and fuselage more efficiently. This structure would be all composite, and move equipment traditionally in the center section (like AC packs, center fuel tank, wingbox) to the lifting body area. This creates an unobstructed passenger and cargo deck, creating more room for revenue cargo. The high wing also allows an engine with a larger fan to be hung, without requiring the landing gear to be raised, and benefit from the improved economics of a higher-bypass engine. Plus the aircraft can maintain convenient ground access without service equipment. It's my pipedream... sigh

Regards,
DFW
 
planemaker
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RE: 7e7 - What Next?

Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:41 am

You get high marks for effort! Obviously, if you went so far as to sketch out you're "dream" plane you are quite a fan!

Re. the AE31X series, your pax numbers are low. The following is from AvObserver's link, and my info from FI is the same.

- the AE316 with a fuselage length of 30,7 metres and 95-105 seats. Take-off weigth would be 50000 to 53000 kg, and range 3100 to 5100 km in a high-gross weight configuration.

- the AE317 will be stretched to 34,5 metres for 115-125 passengers. Weight goes up to 54000 to 58000 kg, with the same range performance as the smaller model.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8651
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RE: 7e7 - What Next?

Fri Jun 11, 2004 11:11 am

Re. the AE31X series, your pax numbers are low. The following is from AvObserver's link, and my info from FI is the same.

I got my numbers from a different source, which probably explains the mix up.

You get high marks for effort! Obviously, if you went so far as to sketch out you're "dream" plane you are quite a fan!

I'm working on one more for myself... but if it comes out all-right I guess I could post it here.
 
Guest

RE: 7e7 - What Next?

Fri Jun 11, 2004 12:52 pm

Err.... 7(3)E7....



 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
NWDC10
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RE: 7e7 - What Next?

Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:08 pm

The 7E7 will probably replace 757,767 and 777. Robert NWDC10
 
7e72004
Posts: 3440
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:15 am

RE: 7e7 - What Next?

Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:37 am

Whoever just sent me an e-mail asking me if i was sick (from my previous post of being sarcastic when i mentioned the next planes after the 7E7 would be the 7F7, 7G7..etc...) you are a spineless little kid who obviously needs a good beating...i tried to respond to the e-mail address you sent it from and it was a no good address...chicken sh*t!
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