yul332LX
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Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:50 am

...and here it is:

According to the officials, a nonbinding MOU has been signed with Boeing that includes China Southern, Air China, China Eastern and Hainan Airlines, with commitments also expected from Xiamen Airlines and Shanghai Airlines. Each carrier will require 10-15 aircraft and government approval is being sought. An announcement is expected before or at the Farnborough Air Show, with the Rolls-Royce Trent 1000 thought to be the engine frontrunner.

Source: http://www.atwonline.com/indexfull.cfm?newsid=4251
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N754PR
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Fri Jun 11, 2004 11:16 am

Great news, I think its one ugly plane but more regs for me to see  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
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starrion
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Fri Jun 11, 2004 11:19 am

YOW!

60 aircraft? And that's before SQ and any of the European carriers place their orders.... At this rate Boeing will have their 200 orders before August....
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Propulsion
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Fri Jun 11, 2004 11:28 am

It would be wonderful news should this occur. I agree with Starrion that Boeing will indeed be doing very well in relation to their predictions should this come to fruition.

I disagree with N754pr's claim that the 7e7 is an ugly aircraft. I think the graphical interpretations that we have seen so far show a nice change from other aircraft designs, although I very much doubt that the 7e7 will be so remarkably different in reality. It will gradually adopt what will become an ever more conventional looking form as the laws of mathematics dictate its optimum shape. The distinction will probably remain with regard to window sizes, the interior and a few exterior features such as the possibility of alternative and slightly more elongated flight deck windows and maybe even that controversial shark fin tail.
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yul332LX
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Fri Jun 11, 2004 11:33 am

... and it is only a beginning. Those airlines will need dozens of 7E7/332 each in the next decades.

The 7E7 ugly? Well, the tail is remarkable but the nose is awful...
E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
 
N754PR
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:13 pm

I can't stand the nose or tail, just ugly.
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L-188
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:23 pm

Do you guys, want to hold off until metal is actually cut before calling the design ugly.

A lot can change on paper between now, and when the design is finalized.
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squirrel83
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Fri Jun 11, 2004 11:09 pm

Kewl . . .

Chinese airlines near 7E7 mega order, AVIC nabs rudder work
Dateline: Friday June 11, 2004

The Chinese aerospace sector will participate in the 7E7 program, it was announced yesterday, while Chinese aviation industry officials separately told ATWOnline that four and possibly six airlines will purchase up to 60 7E7-8s, with first delivery to coincide with the Beijing Olympics in 2008.

According to the officials, a nonbinding MOU has been signed with Boeing that includes China Southern, Air China, China Eastern and Hainan Airlines, with commitments also expected from Xiamen Airlines and Shanghai Airlines. Each carrier will require 10-15 aircraft and government approval is being sought. An announcement is expected before or at the Farnborough Air Show, with the Rolls-Royce Trent 1000 thought to be the engine frontrunner.

Separately, Boeing announced the signing in Beijing of MOUs with China Aviation Industry Corp. I and China Aviation Industry Corp. II under which affiliates of the two companies will provide parts and assemblies for Boeing aircraft, including the composite rudder for the 7E7.

According to a statement, "Boeing will work with Chengdu Aircraft Industrial (Group) Co. Ltd., an AVIC I affiliated company, for supply of the rudder." Boeing said it is developing "additional opportunities for Hafei Aviation Industry Co., an AVIC II company, to produce metallic and composite parts and assemblies for various Boeing aircraft," including the 7E7. Total value of the agreements could reach "several hundred million dollars."--Geoffrey Thomas
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caetravlr
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Fri Jun 11, 2004 11:26 pm

Do any of you think this may be reduced slightly by the order for 20 A333s that was signed today between Airbus and China Eastern Airlines?
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hz747300
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Fri Jun 11, 2004 11:46 pm

Fortunately, ugly is a matter of taste. I love the look A330-200, but hate look of the A342 & A343, the engines just look too small.

This is great news as it seems the 7E7 and 773 have found a home in Asia!
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RT514
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Fri Jun 11, 2004 11:51 pm

Do you guys, want to hold off until metal is actually cut before calling the design ugly


I think people are just commenting on the design as it exists thus far, that's certainly fair game.

Ultimately, I don't know how aesthetically pleasing the 7E7 will be. Efficiency is the main objective of this exciting new design. Unfortunately, efficiency usually doesn't have a positive correlation with good looks.

We'll just have to wait and see...
 
mt99
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Fri Jun 11, 2004 11:56 pm

China Eastern.. one of the airlines mentioned just ordered 20 A330-200s.


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scbriml
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 12:10 am

China Eastern.. one of the airlines mentioned just ordered 20 A330-200s.

The order was for A330-300s, and was placed by the CASGC. Airbus' press release doesn't mention which airline(s) will operate the planes.
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mt99
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 12:23 am

Bloomberg says -200's

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caetravlr
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 12:27 am

The article on Yahoo says -300s, and it says that China Eastern will be operating them, as per my post above.
A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her. - W.C. Fields
 
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scbriml
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:48 am

Bloomberg says -200's

Airbus says -300s - http://www.airbus.com/dynamic/media/index.asp  Big thumbs up
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DIA
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:55 am

The 7E7 is beautiful, both the design thus far, and the fact that it is on track to being one of Boeing's best-sellers even before it has flown. . .that is beautiful. . . . .now, let's see who's next on the 7E7 order wagon going 'round!
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Hamlet69
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:59 am

"Do any of you think this may be reduced slightly by the order for 20 A333s that was signed today between Airbus and China Eastern Airlines?"

Probably not. For one thing, today's A330 order, as you correctly point out, is for -300s. If/when China places an order for the 7E7, it will most probably be for -3s and -8s. These are smaller aircraft than the A330-300.

There's also something else going on here, too. Politics. As history has shown, China likes ordering aircraft in a manner that doesn't upset either side. Until yesterday, today's order was reported to be for only 10 firm, 10 option. Now its 20+10. One might think this is because China is reconsidering the size of the 7E7 order. As I understand it, this is not correct. In fact, China is reconsidering an aircraft, but its not the 7E7. A day or two ago, the Chinese director of civil aviation stated that the A380 is 'too big.' Therefore, I think the doubling of the A330 order was a method to appease Airbus against a lack of an A380 order and the large forthcoming 7E7 deal.

Just my thoughts,

Hamlet69
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BCAInfoSys
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:04 am

I saw this coming a long way off.. even mentioned it to Roberta in the chatroom, but couldn't really say anything as I got it from an internal source and it wasn't public yet.

But I can tell you that there are several other high profile orders in the works, one of which in particular I think will be a big shocker to all of you!

Any of you care to speculate as to who you think it might be? (I know but I can't tell you.. lol)
Militant Agnostic - I don't know and you don't either.
 
DIA
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:07 am

"But I can tell you that there are several other high profile orders in the works, one of which in particular I think will be a big shocker to all of you!"

Okay. . .what is it? United? Delta? Lufthansa? F9? Man, I could go on with shockers. . .how about a hint?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
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BCAInfoSys
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:08 am

I can't say a word...
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DIA
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:09 am

So. . .you're saying it's United. . . Big grin
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BCAInfoSys
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:13 am

lol... I'm neither confirming nor denying anything. But speaking strictly from a personal point of view, I don't think that UA has the money to do anything; if they survive.
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DIA
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:17 am

Wow, it certainly feels like there is a tsunami of an order(s) headed for Boeing. . .and you know when it's going to hit, etc. Well, I for one, can't wait.
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BCAInfoSys
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:19 am

The only way I know any of this is because I have a friend that works @ 7E7.. without him, I wouldn't know squat.  Smile
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caetravlr
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:30 am

Well, we only know what you tell us, and what makes the press. So, we know only slightly more than squat?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her. - W.C. Fields
 
BCAInfoSys
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:33 am

lol.. something like that. I have the names and general order sizes for 3-4 carriers that are said to be in current negotiations. (orders that are not just 7E7s, some are mixed orders)

But that's about it.. I'm not professing to be the all-knowing expert on the subject.. but it's nice to have friends in the right places.  Smile
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mlsrar
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:40 am

I have my money on SAS and CX. I have a feeling that UA will follow NW's shadow and keep an aging, but reliable fleet intact to weather their financial storms intact.

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clickhappy
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:46 am

Aloha is looking at a large 7e7 order. Honest.
 
Vorticity
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:47 am

I can't say a word...

laugh  Big grin, that's why I don't talk what I work, I'm afraid I'd slip up and let something out.

For a shocker, I'm going to guess AA  Big thumbs up
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BCAInfoSys
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:48 am

Royal.. do I sense some sarcasm? Are you being fecious or serious?
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clickhappy
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:49 am

No sarcasm. Supposedly its the real deal.
 
boeingbus
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:53 am

My bet is on Southwest. They have a lot of cash and there are routes they could additional capacity, instead of frequency.
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BCAInfoSys
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:53 am

Huh.. that one caught me out of left-field. Possible. I don't hear everything..

(shrugs) Maybe... that would be a big bump-up in capacity for them. I mean, AQ is flying 738s across the water for crying out loud. 7E7s would mean a big expansion plan is in the works...
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mlsrar
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:55 am

I mean, AQ is flying 738s across the water for crying out loud

When did they order 738s?
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BCAInfoSys
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:01 am

Are they 73G's? I thought they were 738s, but I guess they could be any type of 737.. I guess my memory is failing me!  Laugh out loud  Big grin
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Vorticity
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:02 am

When did they order 738s?

Probably meant 73Gs
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ghost77
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:06 am

BCAInfoSys,

Just a hint! Any chance of business with a latin carrier? 7e7 would look amazing with MX, AM, LA, RG, and least possible since its buying second hand Boeings... AR....!

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BCAInfoSys
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:09 am

I would say that any of that AM, RG, and LA are possibilities. But that's just from my personal point of view.. I have no information one way or another to support that; just a hunch.
Militant Agnostic - I don't know and you don't either.
 
whitehatter
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 8:14 am

And I think you are all looking in the wrong direction.

TUI.

Britannia has a lot of older 767s that are due to be replaced, Hapag-Lloyd needs A310 replacements sooner or later, and the other parts of the business all need frames.

Britannia is probably the most loyal Boeing customer in Europe, having introduced the 737-200 and 767-200 to European skies. TUI has bought Boeing recently for Britannia Scandinavia and other parts of their operation. A group order would be extremely likely in the near future.

No reason why Boeing should not be in front for this purchase, given the purchasing history and potential ease of integrating the 7E7 into the fleet.

[Edited 2004-06-12 01:15:29]
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stirling
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 8:28 am

But I can tell you that there are several other high profile orders in the works, one of which in particular I think will be a big shocker to all of you!"

If it's a shocker, it's gonna be Air France. Or Lufthansa.

By the way, will the "E" in 7E7, be replaced by a number, as in "8", as in 787?




[Edited 2004-06-12 01:32:17]

[Edited 2004-06-12 01:33:19]
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 8:47 am



...hmm wonder which aircraft I prefer  Laugh out loud

My bet is on Southwest. They have a lot of cash and there are routes they could additional capacity, instead of frequency.

WN has a huge fleet of narrowbodies and they could be pushing 500 737s in 2010. When will they add capacity rather than frequency, if ever? WN could probably support a 30-odd fleet of 7E7-3 between LAX, PHX, LAS, BWI, and the Florida destinations.

I'd like to see the 7E7 with WN, but I'd bet they would go for an RJ first.
 
whitehatter
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 8:51 am

I'll go along with your picture unless Airbus does something to make the A330 more attractive.

The A330 stole the 767 market with its better numbers and more up-to-date package as a whole.

Now replace A330 with 7E7 and 767 with A330 in the above sentence

There is NO reason why Boeing can't snatch back that market sector advantage. And that's going to be a HUGE segment in the next twenty years, both for scheduled and charter operators.
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elwood64151
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 9:17 am

WN has a huge fleet of narrowbodies and they could be pushing 500 737s in 2010. When will they add capacity rather than frequency, if ever? WN could probably support a 30-odd fleet of 7E7-3 between LAX, PHX, LAS, BWI, and the Florida destinations.

WN has consistently chosen frequency over capacity time after time. If they want to improve capacity, they'll likely do it system-wide, replacing all aircraft with a single new fleet type, like all 737s being preplaced with 7E7s. I don't think that'll happen, simply because of some of the smaller cities they fly to now that do well with the 737s, but wouldn't do well with a larger type.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
Vorticity
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 9:18 am

Errr, that must be the military version of the 7E7  Big grin

Any thoughts on wether or not the 7E7-8 has too much range? Could it be too heavy and expensive to operate for short ranges?
Thermodynamics and english units don't mix...
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 10:16 am

s. I don't think that'll happen, simply because of some of the smaller cities they fly to now that do well with the 737s, but wouldn't do well with a larger type.

I agree, I am just wondering when WN will add capacity rather than frequency. When they have 600 narrowbodies? 700? 1000 !?

Any thoughts on wether or not the 7E7-8 has too much range? Could it be too heavy and expensive to operate for short ranges?

Two reasons for the added range, IMO. First, additional range translates into greater payload capacity on flights that do not require the full range of the aircraft. This gives the 7E7 a trump card in terms revenue cargo over the A332. Second, Boeing wants to standardize the 7E7 as much as possible, hence the common engine pylon and other options, or lack thereof. Boeing wants to avoid having a 7E7-8 then coming out with a 7E7-8ER several years later. There is very little demand for an aircraft with more than 8500nm of range, meaning such an ER variant is unneseccary.

The 7E7 will have a low OEW so it will still be capable on shorter flights, it is just a matter of loading it with less fuel for flights around 5000-7000nm.
 
Bubbinski
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 11:12 am

Regarding Southwest: at what point would they be unable to add frequencies in their biggest/best markets? An airport can only handle so many departures/arrivals per day, right? Their frequencies are convenient for me for the most part, that's one of the best things about their operation. I have a greater choice of times when I book a flight and that's one thing I hope they keep. But if WN can't add any more frequencies in, say, PHX, then they'd have to buy bigger aircraft if they wanted to try to get more passengers. (If all their flights are constantly overbooked all the time, and no frequencies can be added, that would be a good indicator that bigger planes may be warranted). Might WN be bumping into the practical limits of its business model?

Another thing to consider is this: what is going to replace the 737? If the 737's replacement is going to be based on the 7e7, then it might be a good idea to phase the 7e7 in with the "3" version first for routes that need the capacity, then get the shorter/smaller 737 replacements phased in.

Bubbinski
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A388
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:48 pm

BCAInfoSys,

I would guess that First Choice (Air 2000) is the 'unexpected airline' that will order the 7E7. There are rumours of a charter airline being interested in the 7E7, with First Choice (Air 2000) being on that list as well. I'm not sure about this, but it's just what I've heard....  Wink/being sarcastic

Regards,

A388
 
The777Man
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sat Jun 12, 2004 11:54 pm

TUI wouldn't be a big shocker since they already have 767s and a large 738 fleet. AQ would be a "shocker" and so would WN. It's very likely that TUI would order some 7E7s. Now if Boeing only could replace the "E" with an "8"....

The777Man
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A388
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RE: Chinese Airlines Near 7E7 Mega Order

Sun Jun 13, 2004 12:07 am

I can't resist to say that the 7E7 will be a very very nice aircraft to see once it is being operated by airlines. The dolphin shaped nose and unique tail and wing design, give the 7E7 a very futuristic look, wow.

I just wanted to say that I can't wait for the 7E7 to roll out of the factory. The same goes for the first A380. Those aircraft will truly mark a new beginning in the commercial aviation.

I am very happy we have two aircraft manufacturers with world class products offering very good quality to its customers worldwide. Keep it up  Wink/being sarcastic

A388  Big thumbs up