FlyPNS1
Topic Author
Posts: 5271
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:25 am

Looks like NW is none too pleased with Indy's lowfare service at LAN.

Who would have ever thought NW would fly LAN-IAD?

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040611/cgf013_1.html
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4463
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:28 am

Don't
Mess
With
Big Red!!!!
 
toltommy
Posts: 2485
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:04 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:30 am

Plus bonus miles, too! It must be a high yield market that they want to protect.
 
DCA-ROCguy
Posts: 3890
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 5:03 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:35 am

Of course, if NWA drives Indy Air out of the LAN-IAD market, they're going to keep all four of those nonstop RJ flights, and charge the same low fares Indy Air is going to offer, on an ongoing basis. Northwest's only concern is to offer the best service to Lansing at low, reasonable fares. I'd imagine NWA is probably scratching their heads to figure out what other routes they can nun nonstop from LAN at low fares.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
LV
Posts: 1546
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 6:02 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:35 am

NW has made it clear that the Midwest is it's turf and it will do whatever it takes to protect it....new flights at MKE...increased advertising prescene in the region...etc.
 
7e72004
Posts: 3440
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:15 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:35 am

How successful do you think NW will be on that route?
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
rockyracoon
Posts: 1010
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2003 3:58 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:39 am

More Successful than Indy Big grin


peace
 
airtran737
Posts: 3221
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:47 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:45 am

As much as I hate to say it, Good job Northwest! I hope that Indy Air gets their @ss handed to them by big red!
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:52 am

IMHO - I think NW saw what happened in FNT with FL and does not want a repeat of it. On the other hand the traveling public in Michigan should remember what happened when NW pilots went on strike and just how they were held hostage for that period of time.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
fjnovak1
Posts: 574
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2000 2:23 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:00 am

Is NW increasing aircraft size or # of flights on the DTW-IAD route?? I believe that is mostly DC9 and 319s right now; wouldn't be surprised to see them quietly make all those flights on 320s and 757s...
Go Blue!!
 
7e72004
Posts: 3440
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:15 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:01 am

CRJs are going to be used...although i am sure they have plenty of DC-9s  Big grin
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
kith
Posts: 313
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 1:26 pm

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:13 am

It's not just NW, look at DAL http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=danews.story&STORY=/www/story/06-11-2004/0002191619&EDATE=FRI+Jun+11+2004,+10:00+AM
 
kith
Posts: 313
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 1:26 pm

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:13 am

 
DCA-ROCguy
Posts: 3890
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 5:03 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:18 am

We lazy people appreciate your kindness, KITH. Big grin What's interesting about Delta's response is that it marks a problem network carriers typically haven't faced from LCC"s before: frequency. Indy is the first large LCC to offer the kind of frequency and tight connection possibilities typically offered by network carriers. We'll probably see more such responses from other network carriers.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
smcmac32msn
Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 9:25 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:19 am

GO BIG RED! At first I always thought that NW was pushy with its routes and what it does at its airports. But now I'm starting to see the light and NW was, is, and always will be... KING SUPREMO!
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
vivavegas
Posts: 422
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2004 11:56 pm

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:20 am

Seems kinda a shame they didn't do 4x DC-9 service, Richard has mentioned in the past they can operate a DC-9 cheaper than an RJ. Give the "premium" passengers a first class and 2500 WP miles and bye-bye Indy air.

As mentioned earlier, the number of Low-Fare seats on Indy are very few, I have found them much more expensive on the routes I've priced them on.

Where are the -9's flying these days? With all this CRJ flying from NW recently and not a whole lot of -9 retirements lately they have got to be hiding them somewhere?

Craig
MKE
MKE / EYW / LAS - The true trifecta of aviation!
 
7e72004
Posts: 3440
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:15 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:24 am

speaking of Independence Air...who is flying them on Tuesday when they take to the skies? I have to wait until August 15 to fly them  Sad
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
smcmac32msn
Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 9:25 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:27 am

Vivavegas- MSN is getting quite a few -9's these days. Maybe they don't like MKE.  Big grin
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
ouboy79
Posts: 4111
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 1:48 pm

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:34 am

It is amazing that a market with 57 passengers per day is going from no nonstop service to now 9 flights a day on 50 seat jets or 450 seats per day. This just screams anti-competitive. It would be one thing if Indy Air was going into an establish NW market, but this is crazy. It makes you wonder about this airline sometimes. Toledo has been trying to get them to do MSP and MEM service for years...Northwest's response has always been "We will not overfly the DTW hub." MSP is the #8 O&D city from TOL and the largest airline in the market currently is ATA. Sure NW could be a little gun shy from FNT, but I haven't seen anything stop them in the past from doing this. How about nonstop service to the major cities in the northeast, Florida, Vegas?

It is a shame that these majors opress these smaller markets for years and when someone finally comes along who is willing to offer the service, they try to kill them. Not asking for any good faith efforts here, but if Indy Air is ran out of the market - I doubt NW will maintain the service. It will be interesting to see the reaction if/when Indy Air starts service into TOL.
 
azjubilee
Posts: 3380
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 5:26 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sat Jun 12, 2004 5:15 am

This is so stupid... an airline jumps in to a market, NW counter acts with COMPETITION and the idiots on this board cry predator. Did you happen to even look at what NWA might be doing on the DTW-IAD route? Indy is launching that one too. I'm sure if NW matches prices and steps up the competition between DTW and IAD, it'll be predatory too. One only has to look at the "checklist" and see that "building our network" is on there. That is exactly what NWA is doing. LAN is the capital of the state of MI... What is TOL? Perhaps NWA sees more $$$ with this new LAN service than they see with TOL right now. But of course, NWA has no clue what they're doing.
Yup.. That's it. I sure hope you people are squawking about AA and their DFW-LAX moves as well as the other markets where airlines are COMPETING!


AZJ
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sat Jun 12, 2004 5:31 am

Ouboy79

You said it and hit the nail on the head.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
WMUPilot
Posts: 1428
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 2:48 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sat Jun 12, 2004 5:43 am

Michigan is Northwest terrority. They will do anything to keep it that way. After what happened in FNT with FL and ATA they won't let it happen again.
JetBlue - Bringing humanity back to air travel
 
7e72004
Posts: 3440
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:15 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sat Jun 12, 2004 5:52 am

Why did ATA pull out of LAN?
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6104
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sat Jun 12, 2004 7:39 am

NW owns LAN, end of story.
NW wants to teach everyone a lesson not to mess with their territory in the Midwest/Great Lakes Region.

I get sick of reading this DOJ crap. Its been proven time and time again by the higher-ups that competition is allowed in the airline industry. I bet NW can run those CRJ's for nearly the same costs as Indy Air.

 
fjnovak1
Posts: 574
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2000 2:23 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sat Jun 12, 2004 10:40 am

What makes me wonder though is given that there are 57 people a day flying the LAN-IAD market, how is NW gonna fill those planes? For Indy's 5 dailies one can assume that many of those passengers might be continuing on to other Indy desinations like GSP, SAV, CHS, CAE, ATL, RDU, etc... Lets assume that there are also 57 people flying to DCA and BWI for arguments sake, and the price on the routing sways 75% of them to fly to IAD. Lets also assume that the presence of a new low-fare carrier stimulates air travel by something like 15% (the so-called 'southwest effect')...Lets also assume for arguments sake that these CRJs operated by NW will be the 44 seat CR4 jets, since I believe the 44's outnumber the 50-seaters (press release indicated the jets seat UP TO 50 passengers).

Thus, NW is adding 176 seats in the market (4 times 44 seats)
There are 57 people locally traveling LAN-IAD
86 people is 75% of 57 times 2 (calculation for demand of swayed travelers previously traveling to BWI and DCA)

Thats 143 people....and add 15% you get about 165 people... Thus, the way I see it, because NW has no connection opportunities at IAD for a local LAN passenger besides perhaps a KLM flight to AMS, they'd have to get nearly all of the O & D traffic on the LAN-IAD route PLUS sway travelers previously traveling to Baltimore and Reagan-National to fly NW Airlink instead.

What gives?? 4 seems excessive...I would figure you'd need 3 to establish a schedule even remotely business-friendly though... still, even though I am Pro-Northwest, I believe this would be a fair challenge to the DOJ. If 57 people is it daily for the route (if that is really the number), the given facts above would seem to indicate a predatory move on NW's part (flooding the market)...

Thoughts?????
Go Blue!!
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6104
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sat Jun 12, 2004 11:10 am

Yes, but NW will argue that they are poaching their DTW-IAD/DCA traffic that is coming from the far Western outskirts of the Greater Metro area, such as Livington, Ingham, and Jackson County. Not to mention that people that otherwise had no direct flights from GRR, MBS, or FNT to the DC area will drive to LAN to take a nonstop versus connecting and/or driving to DTW. If priced right, this could work. Michigan is glutted with NW FF elites, and the choice becomes Fly Indy Air or fly NW with the benefits and FF miles to go with a network airline. This route basically requires one dedicated CRJ for the course of the day.

As for where are they -9's, they are still around. It may seem like there aren't as many as there were before, but there still basically is the same number as there has been for the past 3-4 years. Less than 5 high-time DC-9's have been retired. The DC-9-10's are scheduled to go by year-end. Utilization of the -9's is down slightly than what it used to be and there are a number that are simply used as operational spares. The CRJ situation at NW is deceiving. For the most part, NW has not done a huge amount of "replacement flying" with the CRJ's. Very few flights have been downgraded from mainline to CRJ. For the bulk of the CRJ's, have been allocated for new city pairs and increased frequency. Look at the number of cities that have opened up over the past few years with the CRJ's.....AVL, CHS, SAV, MFE, PNS, and many more connecting the dot routes. The others have been used to upgrade Saab routes. There are about 30 less Saabs than there was during their peak in 1999-2000 or so prior to the introduction of the CRJ's. Most of the A-models have been returned to leasors along with some various straight-B models. Thus the 90 or so CRJ's have not replaced too many -9 flights.
 
azo
Posts: 648
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 9:59 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sat Jun 12, 2004 11:46 am

Maybe I missed this part, but isn't it part of the pilots' contract at NW that the regionals must fly through (to/from) a hub? PSU or AZJ could clear up, I'm sure.
Kalamazoozoozoozoozoozoozoo
 
dan-air
Posts: 600
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 1999 6:13 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sat Jun 12, 2004 11:58 am

Northwest has only one goal here: squash the upstart and get back to business as usual - their monopoly where NWA sets the prices. They ain't competing to benefit customers or offer more choice! If this was an important market to NWA, why weren't they offering these services BEFORE Indy stepped in?

It's all about the bottom line, baby. NWA wants to funnel all Michigan-originating traffic through DTW. If NWA manages to muscle Indy out of that market, watch for the operation to be returned to the former service levels/pricing.

Too bad Southwest isn't the new carrier at LAN - I bet NWA wouldn't be as keen to offer "competition" were that the case.
 
sllevin
Posts: 3312
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:57 pm

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sat Jun 12, 2004 12:12 pm

If this was an important market to NWA, why weren't they offering these services BEFORE Indy stepped in?

Because it's better for NW to funnel those folks through DTW. They make more money that way.

But they aren't going to give up that money just because they can't make as much as before.

It's no different than what we do as passengers. Let's say the flights you'd really like are $700 (and you can't afford that). But there are flights with longer layovers that mean you have to leave at 5:00am instead of noon, to arrive at the same time, that cost $300 (which you can afford).

Do you fly, or not? I think the answer for most people is that the compromise is better than nothing.

Steve
 
kcrwflyer
Posts: 2534
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 11:57 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:43 pm

how is Nw going to beat indy there? Theyed have to get there fares down to about 60$ roundtrip. Again im not sure of how much indy will be charging, but it will be hard to beat that. What is lansings O&D? to Washington that is.
 
kcrwflyer
Posts: 2534
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 11:57 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:57 pm

I just checked and LAN's O&D to Washington DC and its 72 passengers per day. ok. Math time people. 4 crj's at 50 seats a piece = 200 seats. ok still with me? 200 - 72= 128. Im coming up with 128 empty seats. now lets subtract that 72 which will now be flying direct, from the flights that already fly there. From what i see that basically kills a whole Dc-9 to DTW, as from what i see they are normally about 30 people short of full.

It could work out, but im weary about it. Lets see how it goes down in about a month then?
 
iowaman
Posts: 3878
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 2:29 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:10 pm

This is so stupid... an airline jumps in to a market, NW counter acts with COMPETITION and the idiots on this board cry predator.

Tough luck, competition keeps prices down, which is good for travelers!
 
NWDC10
Posts: 904
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2003 10:15 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:39 pm

I live in the Seattle area so i didn't know the LAN-IAD market till i looked it up. No non-stops till now (Indy air took action in serving both airports non-stop). NW would probably love to force Indy Air out of the market. But they really want everyone to fly in/out of Detroit. Even though i'm a NW fan, i hope Indy air stays in the market so both airlines will have to provide non-stop service. And hoping both airlines are profitable on this route. I don't want to see any carriers go out but as you know with new start-up LLC regionals, this is going to be a major battle between airlines/routes. If markets are flodded with "low cost", how are the major/high cost airlines going to be able to afford to fly with out substantial reduction in expenses? Low cost markets will just hurt the "high cost airlines. Robert NWDC10 "bleeding airlines bleeding even more".
 
syncmaster
Posts: 1926
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 9:55 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:25 pm

"I just checked and LAN's O&D to Washington DC and its 72 passengers per day"

I think, as others have said too, that that number could potentially rise, and probably will. LAN is not really that far of a drive from most of the LP, and most people I know would go for the non-stop over the connection any day. GRR and FNT are really the only markets I can think of that you might not be able to sway people away from, but that still leaves plenty of other cities, including but not limited to, AZO, TVC, etc.

For example, in AZO the drive to either GRR or LAN is more or less the same distance and time, but GRR doesn't have a non-stop and LAN does. Which will they pick. Not to mention the FF benfits of flying NW over Indy Air, also as others have said, Michigan is a NW WorldPerks mad house, and it WILL work to their benefit.
 
azjubilee
Posts: 3380
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 5:26 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sat Jun 12, 2004 10:27 pm

As far as the NWA scope goes... an "RJ" is considered to have 50 or more seats. Therefore, the 44 seat CRJs are exempt from scope, therefore legal to overfly the hubs. That's how they'll get away with MKE and how they'll get away with all the new CRJ point to point service they'll be doing... now and in the future. The NW pilots have said that they'll watch this situation closely... meaning no upgages from 44 to 50 seaters. IMO - a hard task... but doable.


AZJ
 
Tango-Bravo
Posts: 2887
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:04 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sun Jun 13, 2004 12:03 am

"Competitive" move by NW? Gimme a break!!! Yet another reactionary move by a legacy airline who just doesn't get it -- it's not about new competitors stupid; it's about your own unsustainable business "plan" that won't be fixed by driving LCCs out of your markets (which will also prove ultimately to be an exercise in futility).
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 3975
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sun Jun 13, 2004 12:28 am

I am curious of how Indy will make this work even without the NW flights. Although the same holds true for the frequency they are planning in many cities. It reminds me of when I used to "create" an airline on paper when I was a kid. 18 flights day here, 20 flights a day there . . .

It's awesome, but good luck.

PJ
 
doninfc
Posts: 131
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 5:35 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sun Jun 13, 2004 12:36 am

I really don't get some people on this board. All of you who are cheering NW on and wishing the quick demise of Indy Air are fooling yourselves. IF Indy is forced out of LAN-IAD, NW will immediately drop the route and push fares back up (with a connection in DTW). How is that a good thing? Like it or not, NWs reaction IS predatory and is NOT good for the traveling public. All I can think is that most of you who are cheering NW on are either legacy airline employees who fly for free anyway, or have so much money to spend on airline tickets that you don't care if all LCCs fail.
 
Bicoastal
Posts: 2446
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 1999 5:56 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sun Jun 13, 2004 12:39 am

Lower fares should increase the number of travelers so don't look at existing numbers. Hopefully NW will capture those new travelers who either wouldn't have left home, or would have taken alternative transportation...driving. Some will fly Indy and most will fly NW with its better known brand and superior network.

Indy air and other domestic LCCs don't meet my travel needs because I fly abroad frequently. But if they fill a niche and demand, then more power to them. I like how they are getting the competitive juices flowing at NW, United, Delta and other established carriers. I'll always choose United.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
CXA330300
Posts: 1258
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 5:51 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sun Jun 13, 2004 12:43 am

I am of the belief that NW is trying to keep their monopoly, which is being anti-competitive, and I think breaking some sort of anti-trust law. Anyway, no go to Big Red. Never flown them, but after dismal reports from my Minnesotan friends, I'm not going to.
AC/AA/UA/DL/B6/WN/US*/CO*/FI/BA/IB/AF/SK/LX/Sabena*/TK/LY/SA/MN/SW/AM/CE*/CX/CA/MU/JL/SQ/TG/MH/KA/5J
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6104
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sun Jun 13, 2004 1:04 am

I'm glad some of you are as smart as the DOJ. Oh well, this argument always comes up. There is a line between being competitive and breaking the rules. If NW had thrown 5 757's on the LAN-IAD by all means, thats capacity dumping. However, NW is offering less capacity on the route than Indy Air.

NW is offering $158 roundtrip LAN-IAD, the exact same price as Indy Air. There have been many times in the recent past where you could get fares this low during special fare sales offered by NW. If they were charging $60 r/t then you may have an argument. For whats its worth, its $154 GRR-IAD with a connection in DTW, and $134 r/t DTW-IAD. Now, these fares are cheaper than driving!

Again NW will make the argument than they have a customer base that has wanted these flights, that has otherwise been driving to DTW. Maybe yes, maybe no, but its hard to file an anti-trust suit against an airline who has been losing a ton of money lately, and who has good friends in both Lansing and Washington DC.

These flights have very little incremental costs and can compete on a cost similar to Indy Air. NW already has the resources in LAN and IAD with their existing stations. Thus all they are paying for is the variable costs of flying the aircraft which are nearly identical to Indy Air. Don't quote me, but I believe that Indy Air pilots will be paid more than Pinnacle.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6104
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sun Jun 13, 2004 1:08 am

Also, its funny that NW's LAN-IAD starts 2 days earlier than Indy Air's, nice way to quiet the fan-fare.
 
doninfc
Posts: 131
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 5:35 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sun Jun 13, 2004 1:11 am

Many of you may not remember what NW pulled in the early/mid 90s with Reno Air. Reno Air announced new service between RNO and MSP with 2 flights a day for about $69 OW. At the time NW didn't even serve this route. But because Reno Air offered connections to the west coast via RNO, at low fares, NW got threatened and pissed off. How did they react? Not only did they announce new service between MSP-RNO, but they announced a bunch of new service from RNO to the west coast, over saturating all of Reno Air's key markets. This move would have most definitely put Reno Air out of business in a matter of months. So what happened you ask? Reno air cancelled it's plans to serve MSP, and NW cancelled it's plans to expand in RNO. Fares between MSP and Reno were raised back up about 300% and the people of Minneapolis continue to get F**ked in the ass by NW for years to come. Go big red? Give me a break.
 
N312RC
Posts: 2584
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2000 10:58 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sun Jun 13, 2004 1:36 am

Reno Air stepped in to NW's territory at DTW and didnt last long. NW drove them out of here so quick that it made heads spin (or roll..)

EDIT:

added this link from the Detroit News about NW and their tactics in the past:

http://www.detnews.com/2000/business/0007/20/a01-93685.htm

[Edited 2004-06-12 18:42:56]
N/A
 
kcrwflyer
Posts: 2534
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 11:57 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sun Jun 13, 2004 1:56 am

"Fares between MSP and Reno were raised back up about 300% and the people of Minneapolis continue to get F**ked in the ass by NW for years to come. Go big red? Give me a break. "

LOL  Big thumbs up. My thoughts exactly about what they are doing. Run a carrier out, and raise prices, resulting in what we like to call @$$ f***ing. LOL. Its true though, and its business, and i dont like it. It doesnt benefit the customer in any way.
 
doninfc
Posts: 131
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 5:35 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sun Jun 13, 2004 2:11 am

N312RC:

excellent article. It certainly validates what some of us have been saying. Thanks for posting.

Don
 
Coronado990
Posts: 1312
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 2:12 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sun Jun 13, 2004 2:15 am

If NW is so interested in all of a sudden serving the people of Lansing with non-stops to Washington DC, then why are they not expanding into the New York area as well, which has about 59 pax per day, the second busiest market out of LAN. I guess they are waiting for jetBlue to come in first. Maybe if NW showed some initiative and started a non-stop themselves, they wouldn't have to worry about the competition.

Off topic...but is Laker still starting LAN-NAS 2x a week starting Oct 24th with 727s?

Uncle SAN at your service!
 
Tango-Bravo
Posts: 2887
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:04 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sun Jun 13, 2004 2:23 am

Jfklganyc writes: I am curious of how Indy will make this work even without the NW flights. Although the same holds true for the frequency they are planning in many cities. It reminds me of when I used to "create" an airline on paper when I was a kid. 18 flights day here, 20 flights a day there . . .

My thoughts as well. Much as I would like to see Indy Air succeed, I have a moneyless wager with a co-worker (at a major airline) that Indy Air will not be in business beyond the end of this year. And that was without factoring in the prospect of predatory actions of legacy airlines. Seems to me that Indy Air will take care of putting themselves out of business -- no need for costly shenanigans on the part of NW to effect Indy's demise, unless it's for spite.

And BTW, my message to all who make the claim that NW's reactionary move in the LAN-IAD is "competitive" rather than predatory (and/or for spite): "the emporer sure is wearing a flashy set of clothes!"
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6104
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sun Jun 13, 2004 2:42 am

I agree that of course this is preditory, but not illegal from the point of view that someone takes. My response, is ok...what SHOULD NW do? Any takers?

You can say lower prices all you want, but you need to understand that the barriers to entry in the airline business always favor the newcomer which doesn't have the burden of costs of a network carrier. When apples and oranges have to compete, sometimes drastic measures need to be taken.
 
iowaman
Posts: 3878
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 2:29 am

RE: NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN

Sun Jun 13, 2004 2:51 am

My thoughts as well. Much as I would like to see Indy Air succeed, I have a moneyless wager with a co-worker (at a major airline) that Indy Air will not be in business beyond the end of this year.

Thank god I bought stock in F9 and not Indy Air!