ORD747CLE
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United's Worst Routes (At The Moment)

Sat Jun 12, 2004 11:22 am

Does anyone have any insight into what some of United's worst routes are at the moment? Perhaps they are considering pulling out of certain markets/decreasing frequencies?

Threads appear frequently on their best routes, but what are some of the routes they're struggling with.

Any ideas??!!

Ord747Cle
 
greatansett
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RE: United's Worst Routes (At The Moment)

Sat Jun 12, 2004 11:30 am

Maybe Sydney-Los Angeles?
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StevenUhl777
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RE: United's Worst Routes (At The Moment)

Sat Jun 12, 2004 12:16 pm

Maybe Sydney-Los Angeles?

Ummmm.....based on what?

Everything I keep hearing/reading on this website is that SYD-LAX is one of UA's more profitable routes. Why would they want to discontinue it? Do you know something the rest of us don't? The US and Australia have an open-skies agreement, yet no other carrier has entered the market. What does that tell you?

Last time I checked, only QF and UA operate SYD-LAX, and UA only operates SYD-SFO.

Add some facts to your guesses next time!  Insane

[Edited 2004-06-12 05:18:42]
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Cory6188
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RE: United's Worst Routes (At The Moment)

Sat Jun 12, 2004 12:21 pm

Since no other carrier has entered the market, that tells me that it apparently isn't profitable enough to make the service worth starting.
 
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N328KF
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RE: United's Worst Routes (At The Moment)

Sat Jun 12, 2004 12:29 pm

Cory6188:

Or it could be that it's profitable enough now, but divide the traffic up with another carrier and it becomes unprofitable.
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N670UW
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RE: United's Worst Routes (At The Moment)

Sat Jun 12, 2004 12:31 pm

What other carrier would make that route work? There are no other carriers right now that have the logistics in place to make the flight work. United does.


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CO737800
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RE: United's Worst Routes (At The Moment)

Sat Jun 12, 2004 12:37 pm

I could see CO starting A SYD from Houston flight
 
dinker225
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RE: United's Worst Routes (At The Moment)

Sat Jun 12, 2004 12:38 pm

The loads are not light. Every flight I have ever taken on that route has been packed. Including the flight yesterday. I was on it and there was one empty seat in economy. Most likely because the guy didn't show up. And with the amount of 747's Qantas has daily in Los Angeles something must be looking up for this route or they would drop the frequency too.

Dinker
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N670UW
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RE: United's Worst Routes (At The Moment)

Sat Jun 12, 2004 12:39 pm

I could see CO starting A SYD from Houston flight

That may work, but it would require a C-market aircraft, of which CO does not have.


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CO737800
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RE: United's Worst Routes (At The Moment)

Sat Jun 12, 2004 12:41 pm

Could the 777-200 not make the run? Would it be worth it for them to get a few 777LR that could make the run
 
Gemuser
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RE: United's Worst Routes (At The Moment)

Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:15 pm

StevenUhl777

The US & Australia DO NOT have an OPEN SKY Agreement!!! The Oz government will not negotiate trade agreements on an industry by industry basis. However the recently concluded, but as yet unratified, Australia/US Free Trade Agreement's only referance to Aviation is in an annex to the main agreement, which is a letter from US State dept saying they agree to further negotiations on aviation.

Having said that the current bi lateral treaty is pretty free, ANY US airline that wants to operate to OZ can do so as there is unused US capacity in the agreement. It just has to get approval from US authorities. US State dept then notifies OZ government of the details,which then has to approve the flights. If they are within the parameters of the current bilateral treaty this approval is a formality and will be quickly issued. If the proposal is outside the current bilateral then negotiations must take place, this can delay things, but not for long in the current climate.

So why are there not at least two US carriers to OZ? (HA doesn't count(yet))
Because they don't believe that they can make money on the route OR (& more likely) they believe they can make a better "return on investment" that is MORE money, elsewhere.

While currently flights are full, they are still relatively expensive flights to operate and a lot of traffic is low yield, so they are not necessily the most profitable. They lack of more US operators rather suggests that this is the case.

I have said it before and I'll say it again, the US - SW Pacific is a difficult route to operate, its long, its thin and it has compertision that will fight you to the death because they have no where else to go! What ever happens, on the US-SW Pacific route - 2nd last carrier standing = QF. Last carrier standing = NZ.



Gemuser
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StevenUhl777
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RE: United's Worst Routes (At The Moment)

Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:28 pm

Thanks Gemuser...

I had based my commend off what I had seen posted in other threads on the same topic, though the current state of aviation rights between OZ and the US seems to fall in that gray area. Not open skies, but not tightly controlled, either.

I was confused about your comment about HA...are they not a US carrier? They started HNL-SYD, making them the 2nd US airline to OZ, though not nonstop from California like UA and QF.
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nickofatlanta
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RE: United's Worst Routes (At The Moment)

Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:53 pm

HA are the third US airline flying to Australia. CO continues to fly to CNS from GUM.
 
greatansett
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United's Worst Routes (At The Moment)

Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:28 pm

In Australia the media is making out the UA is really struggling against QF.
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UAMAYBACH1239
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RE: United's Worst Routes (At The Moment)

Sun Jun 13, 2004 12:22 am

United is not having a problem selling tickets for SYD. The problem is flying to or from the states usually means you are going to have a plane on the ground between 8-12 hrs. UA has plenty of planes but they dont own them. so without cutting the flts. they suspended a few and try to send the 47's on higher frequencies. If 1st and Business 70% full and coach 67% full, with full mail and cargo it is said they pull in about 1Mil.USD each way.

Cargo is always full..
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jetbluefan1
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RE: United's Worst Routes (At The Moment)

Sun Jun 13, 2004 8:12 am

To get back onto topic...

I think United's routes into ATL aren't too profitable. From Chicago, they compete with AirTran, Delta, American and ATA (I think). From DEN, they compete with AirTran, Delta, and Frontier. From D.C, they compete with AirTran, Delta, and soon FlyI. Basically, their routes from ATL are surrounded by LCC action.

JetBluefan1
 
N178UA
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RE: United's Worst Routes (At The Moment)

Sun Jun 13, 2004 8:29 am

I am invited to a meeting with UA GM Stephen Pearse in SYD 2 weeks later, I will ask him about this, but having flown SYD-LAX and SYD-SFO regularly as a pax last 5 years, I have to say SYD-LAX have very strong business class and first class flyers bases and flight running 60-70% full in low season, and close to 100% full in shoulder and high season. Get me a seat in V or W class in July...very difficult. Please don't write something base on what you think without proven facts. Check UA site for traffic release for load factors.

Sam Chui
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Gemuser
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RE: United's Worst Routes (At The Moment)

Sun Jun 13, 2004 11:26 am

StevenUhl777

Of course HA is a US carrier!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy But its service into SYD is really an odd ball operation, that does not fit into the general topic of Oz/NZ-US flights, so I except it from most comments.

The reason it dosent fit is that the main game Oz/NZ - US is NON stop flights! Nobody is going to take a multi stop flight if they dont have to. (OK some low yeild tourist traffic excepted). So HA does not compete in the main game.

However I will be watching the HA service into SYD very closely because they seem to be trying something different this time, good connections to/from west coast cities, NOT LAX & SFO. It will be wonderful if they can make HNL into even a mini hub again, while making a profit of course, as from the 1930s to 1980s HNL was one of the world great aviation cross roads and hubs.


Gemuser
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Cubsrule
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RE: United's Worst Routes (At The Moment)

Sun Jun 13, 2004 12:48 pm

B6 fan: TZ does not serve ATL, and I disagree with you about UA's ORD-ATL route. IAD-ATL is all express (Air Whisky I think), and there would be no reason for UA to fly mainkine jets to ATL if they were not making a profit. ORD-ATL has the O&D to support a fair amount of competition, and there is obviously significant connection going on at both ends as well.
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masseybrown
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RE: United's Worst Routes (At The Moment)

Sun Jun 13, 2004 12:57 pm

I suspect that UAL's worst routes, by which I mean routes making the biggest losses, are probably domestic, specifically the JFK and BOS transcons where Jetblu and America West are killing yields. If I had to pick one, I'd say JFK-LAX.

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