boeingbus
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Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:48 am

A little reference to this in the following article in an Asian news source:

"He (Raffarin) told US cable news television CNBC that Airbus was in talks with a US carrier..."

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_world_business/view/83747/1/.html

Now, who could that be.... my bets are on NWA.
Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
ACAfan
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A

Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:59 am

It is independence air securing options for 2008 delivery  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Freddie Laker ... May be at peace with his maker ... But he is a persona non grata ... with IATA
 
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tjwgrr
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

Sun Jun 13, 2004 11:13 am

"It is independence air securing options for 2008 delivery"

---------------------------------------------------------

........... to compete with NWA on the IAD-LAN route.  Smile
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
rj777
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

Sun Jun 13, 2004 11:17 am

Probably FedEx, if they haven't already placed an order.
 
Propulsion
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

Sun Jun 13, 2004 11:22 am

Fedex have already ordered the A380. I will be most surprised if a US passenger carrier orders the A380 in the very near future as many of them seem to be in a poor state and have been regularly written off in this forum for not having the ability to purchase desired 7e7's. If accurate, how can they go further and order the A380?

I would however agree that the most likely candidate would be Northwest Airlines, although an order may not be feature deliveries until at least a few years yet.
A bus is a vehicle that runs twice as fast when you are after it as when you are in it.
 
Tasha
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

Sun Jun 13, 2004 11:25 am

U.S. airlines where in a poor state in 1969-70 as well - yet they purchased B747s. It's all relative. Personally I have flown Detroit - Amsterdam on a fully booked NW 747-400 (overbooked by 40 seats actually). If they had an A380 avalible it would have been full too - no questions.

Tasha  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
dynkrisolo
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

Sun Jun 13, 2004 11:29 am

It could very well be UPS. They have plenty of 300Fs on order that they don't want all but Airbus won't let them cancel unless they replace the canceled orders with some other orders. If it's UPS, then I don't think it's a shocker.
 
Jean Leloup
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

Sun Jun 13, 2004 11:29 am

I believe FedEx has already placed their order some time ago. Is UPS a possibility?

If it is a pax carrier, it is hard for me to imagine it being anyone other than NW, since they are the only (relatively) healthy airline that already flies widebody airbii, and has a big long-haul network. Still, this seems strange. I think it is a bit early for NW to be thinking about replacing/moving beyond their 747's, and the DC-10 replacements are already set.
Next flight.... who knows.
 
trevd
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

Sun Jun 13, 2004 11:32 am

This article was from back in May... The only US carrier Airbus may have a shot with the A380 at is UPS as part of their plan to drop some of the A300 freighters on order. Those are firm orders and Airbus won't let them off the hook without commiting to another type.
 
AGrayson514
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

Sun Jun 13, 2004 12:00 pm

I vote for UPS, which I was going to do even before I read the previous posts  Smile/happy/getting dizzy . The only other which I can think of would be NW...or I guess UA, but neither of them seem very likely. Are there any other cargo airlines based in the US that could use that kind of capacity?

~ Andrew Grayson
Give a little bit...
 
L-188
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

Sun Jun 13, 2004 12:28 pm

I suspect it is UPS being "extorted" (I know harsh word) by Airbus in their attempts to drop the unneeded A-300F's.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

Sun Jun 13, 2004 1:05 pm

My guess is that Airbus is definitely wanting to court a UPS order for the
A380-800F and maybe in talks with Northwest Airlines (NW) for a possible passenger order. Maybe NW will become the first airline to fly the A388 between NRT and JFK??  Smile
 
gigneil
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A

Sun Jun 13, 2004 1:22 pm

I suspect it is UPS being "extorted" (I know harsh word) by Airbus in their attempts to drop the unneeded A-300F's.

Why would it be extortion. A contract is a contract, and UPS wants to cancel planes for which Airbus has completed the procurement cycle.

It'd be a fair tradeup, especially for UPS who actually NEEDS longhaul planes vs. the regional workhorses they'd ordered.

I think its an extremely generous offer by Airbus to allow 5X to trade to a plane they actually need despite already having the materiel for the planes they ordered before.

N
 
workbench
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

Sun Jun 13, 2004 1:23 pm

I know for a fact that B6 will order 50+ A380. Yeah B6!  Smile
 
atrude777
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A

Sun Jun 13, 2004 1:32 pm

I know for a fact that B6 will order 50+ A380. Yeah B6!  

Really now?!?! Iv heard it was Southwest, and AA, as you KNOW WN needs it on the DAL-HOU route and AA needs it for the STL-AA), Japan">NRT/LAX/DFW/CDG/LGW flights they are doing soon... Smile

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
QANTASforever
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

Sun Jun 13, 2004 1:38 pm

Daydreaming, I know - but just imagine how beautiful an A380 would be in American Airlines colours?

(sigh)

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
UAFAN17
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

Sun Jun 13, 2004 1:49 pm

Oh do I wish UA would be the launch usa customer, but YEAH RIGHT. I heard from an AA F/A today that AA isn't very happy with Airbus after Flt. 587. They are also tryung to slowly get rid of the A300s which in their reservations systems are known as B6 lol( just some of the side idiotic fact i thought was weird.)
 
gigneil
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A

Sun Jun 13, 2004 1:53 pm

AB6. Not B6.

FAs know next to nothing about what management is thinking, and, honestly, neither do the pilots.

N
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A

Sun Jun 13, 2004 2:17 pm

I heard from an AA F/A today that AA isn't very happy with Airbus after Flt. 587.

If that wasn't plainly obvious by the blame game being thrown around...
 
Tasha
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

Sun Jun 13, 2004 2:33 pm

"I heard from an AA F/A today that AA isn't very happy with Airbus after Flt. 587"

And they shouldn't be. That aircraft should have never came apart the way it did. There has been much speculation that had 587 been a B767 it would would not have failed. Is there a structural engineer here that could provide some insights?

Tasha  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

Sun Jun 13, 2004 2:39 pm

How about Polar Air Cargo or Atlas Air?

I was looking at an old A3XX case study the other day and Airbus named either Atlas or Polar air as a high possibility back in 2000.
 
Udo
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

Sun Jun 13, 2004 3:20 pm

Tasha,

If Rex hadn't lost his dog-shit he would have got his sausage...so much for the idiotic 'B767 wouldn't have failed' argument.

If US Airways had operated Airbus aircraft much earlier, there wouldn't have been these 'B737 rudder' crashes, right??? I bet you agree...


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
Tasha
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

Sun Jun 13, 2004 3:24 pm

Udo,

I'm not disputing that the A300 isn't a fine aircraft, but I had seen many times in print that structurally it isn't what it could have been. Why that is, I haven't got the slightest idea.

Tasha
 
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flybynight
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

Sun Jun 13, 2004 3:25 pm

Doesn't AA and DL have long-term contracts with Boeing? If so, I would thing the A380 is even less unlikely to make it into their respective fleets.
Heia Norge!
 
Leskova
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

Sun Jun 13, 2004 4:11 pm

Tasha,

I think one of the things that Udo is getting at is that if it hadn't been the aircraft registered N14053, the flight might also never have made the news... there's far too much "in print" going around that's truly speculation: the investigation isn't finished yet, and I think we should reserve judgement for when it is.

Flybynight,

yes, AA and DL - just as CO - have long-term-contracts (well, actually, they don't: those were cancelled when Boeing and McDD "merged" - but the three airlines and Boeing seem to be staying quite close to what was agreed back then), but these contracts have limits: if I recall correctly, AA was looking at A345/A346s (maybe only to lower the price if they ever order B777NGs) and they could have ordered them, because they were above the set weight limits... if they're above, then the A380 would definitely be above it.

Nonetheless, I seriously doubt that and one of those three airlines are even thinking about negotiations concerning A380s.

I would really like to see it in UA or NW colors though...  Big grin

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
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scbriml
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

Sun Jun 13, 2004 4:42 pm

UPS wants to cancel planes for which Airbus has completed the procurement cycle.

Do you think that's really the case? Those A300s are not exactly being turned out at a very fast rate (2 in Feb, 1 in Mar, 1 in May) and UPS still have 54  Nuts outstanding (that would be a fair few A380s!)
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
ha763
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

Sun Jun 13, 2004 4:44 pm

It is most likely a package carrier, whose business is based more on volume like UPS and FedEx. I doubt Polar or Atlas would be considering the A380 at this time. They specialize in taking cargo of any size or weight, as long as it fits in the aircraft. You wouldn't be able to fit a 20ft or 40ft container into the A30F, but you can in a 747F with the nose cargo door.
 
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solnabo
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

Sun Jun 13, 2004 5:16 pm

Halleluja!!!
Let the orders roll in  Big thumbs up

Mike//SE
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
fjnovak1
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

Sun Jun 13, 2004 6:22 pm

I believe Delta will order a few to compete with Indy Air on the IAD-ATL route...  Wink/being sarcastic
Go Blue!!
 
Fiedman
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

Sun Jun 13, 2004 6:44 pm

As I recall FedEx is the launch customer of the A380 freighter version. In my personal opinion I think UPS is going to wait to see how it does in the FedEx fleet before they order any of there own (of course I could be wrong). But if its a passenger carrier like a lot of people are already saying then I do believe it would be NW, as a possible replacement for there DC-10's if they are not being phased out already by the A333's or even there Boeing 742/744 aircrafts.
Westjet - Canada's National Low-fare Airline
 
QantasA332
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

Sun Jun 13, 2004 6:46 pm

That [A300] should have never came apart the way it did. There has been much speculation that had 587 been a B767 it would would not have failed. Is there a structural engineer here that could provide some insights?

Apparently the Flt. 586 crash was not due as much to integral structural issues but flight control glitches (though investigation on the accident are still underway). A300-600 rudder limiters work it stages, with the maximum amount of allowable rudder deflection reducing as speed increases. For very quick intervals of time, it was found that the rudder limiter couldn't react fast enough. Accordingly, the vertical tail of 586 was subject to overly high loading due to the large rudder deflection(s) the pilots were making, and promptly broke off. Some delamination of the composite tail was also found which I believe would have contributed a bit to the crash, adding a possible maintenence factor. But I digress...

As for a U.S. airline ordering the A380, I'm almost 100% sure that when (if?) the order is placed, it will be from Northwest. With a good amount A330s, A320s, and A319s, I wouldn't be surprised (to say the least) if they're looking at the A380...

Cheers,
QantasA332
 
hz747300
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:11 pm

It was flight AA587 - not AA586.

My bet is on DHL/Airborne!!!!!

From a passenger prospective, the A380 makes the most sense for AWA carrying ASU springbreakers from PHX to Cancun.
Keep on truckin'...
 
L.1011
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:42 pm

Isn't it odd how the 7E7 has been out for like a month and a half and has nearly half the orders of the A380, which has been out for something like 5 years?
 
aerosol
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:49 pm

It is not so odd if you compare the orders concerning $$  Big grin
 
SafetyDude
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:54 pm

Outside of the cargo airliines, NW would be the only airline with a remote chance of ordering the A380 (for now, at least).

 Smile
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
Guest

RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:58 pm

No doubt US airlines will be put under pressure when foreign airlines begin competing on their routes with the A380. They could reduce prices and/or increase the comfort level especially in the first and business class section, drawing customers away from airlines not using the A380. This may swing some airlines into buying the A380.
 
dynkrisolo
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

Sun Jun 13, 2004 11:45 pm


No doubt US airlines will be put under pressure when foreign airlines begin competing on their routes with the A380.


Then can you explain why many European airlines like LH and BA still use a lot of 747s across the Atlantic, but US carriers like DL, UA, and AA are using 767s and 777s across the Atlantic?
 
planemaker
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RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

Sun Jun 13, 2004 11:53 pm

Some A380 promo hype (extracted) brought up in ATWonline by Airbus re. hub and P2P asia traffic:

  • 1998-2003: only one new route was launched between Tokyo Narita and a secondary N. American city (Houston) while four were suspended (Narita to Calgary, Portland, Las Vegas and Toronto).


  • 50% of US-Narita passengers stay in Tokyo while 60% of US-Seoul passengers likewise remain in the South Korean capital.


  • Even relatively large cities cannot support nonstop P2P service. Dallas and Guangzhou (approximately 4 million people each) do not generate enough O&D traffic for one flight per week.


  • For economy-class pax, ticket price is twice as important as the availability of a nonstop flight in airline selection criteria.


  • For business- and first-class pax, FF programs and price are each twice as important as the availability of a nonstop.


  • 80% of Europe-Asia flights are operated on primary routes.


  • Even transatlantic, top 20 routes' seat capacity market share was 40% in 2003 while the remaining 60% was spread over 216 other routes--both figures unchanged from 1990.


  • For article go to: http://www.atwonline.com/indexfull.cfm?newsid=4245
    Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
     
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    STT757
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    RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:05 am

    No big 6 US Carrier is ordering anything save maybe Regional jets like the ERJ-170/190 for the next couple years, as mentioned several times the only reasonable possibility would be a Cargo/parcel carrier like UPS.

    The 777-300ER is likely the largest airliner to be ordered by a Major US Airline, and that's probably a few years down the road. Also a A340-500/600 order for NWA is a possibility, again not for a few years though.
    Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
     
    backfire
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    RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:05 am

    Daydreaming, I know - but just imagine how beautiful an A380 would be in American Airlines colours

    I'm going to break my policy of not commenting on airline livery aesthetics just to say - you are joking, right??
     
    FoxBravo
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    RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:13 am

    1998-2003: only one new route was launched between Tokyo Narita and a secondary N. American city (Houston) while four were suspended (Narita to Calgary, Portland, Las Vegas and Toronto).

    True, but Airbus conveniently fails to mention that also during that time, a number of 747s on established routes were downgraded to smaller equipment. Off the top of my head I can think of UA's NRT-JFK, and -HNL, and NH's NRT-IAD, -SFO and -LAX (which are all 777s now), but there are probably others. That doesn't exactly scream out a need for the A380. In other words, just because some unprofitable routes were axed doesn't mean the traffic shifted to hub-to-hub trunk routes!

    Besides, look at NW's recent decision to replace the 747 on NRT-SEA with DC-10s to SEA and PDX. If that isn't evidence of market fragmentation, I don't know what is.

    I'm not trying to bash Airbus here. I think there is a niche (albeit a small one) for the A380, and besides, it's not like Boeing's marketing folks don't manipulate the facts too. I just wanted to point out that this particular argument really doesn't hold water.
    Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
     
    F4N
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    RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:26 am

    To all:

    The only chance Airbus has of an A380 sale to a US carrier in anything bordering on the near-medium term is UPS; none of the US carriers with airbus fleets is in any condition to order anything like that. That being the case, all airbus can do is talk.


    The UPS issue is different. They have put themselves in the inenviable position of having 3 options:

    Take more un-needed A306F.
    Convert these to unwanted A380F
    Pay contractual cancellation penalties.

    Of the 3, #2 makes the most sense.

    We shall see.

    regards,

    F4N
     
    workbench
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    RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:27 am

    I heard that TED will also order some. They will have over 600 seats in a super high density seating. And they will be bright orange.
     
    kcrwflyer
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    RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:27 am

    "It is independence air securing options for 2008 delivery"

    ---------------------------------------------------------

    "........... to compete with NWA on the IAD-LAN route. "

    LOL hahahaha.
     
    ushermittwoch
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    RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:40 am

    "Then can you explain why many European airlines like LH and BA still use a lot of 747s across the Atlantic, but US carriers like DL, UA, and AA are using 767s and 777s across the Atlantic?"

    Well, I can give you a hint why this could be.
    Most US airlines are run very inefficiently.
    And to top it off, most people would prefer the European service, thus it's easier to fill the planes.
     Big grin

    Where have all the tri-jets gone...
     
    yul332LX
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    RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:48 am

    Back to the topic, UPS is the most likely. As for NW, that would be a looooong shot!!!
    E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
     
    Guest

    RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:52 am

    Then can you explain why many European airlines like LH and BA still use a lot of 747s across the Atlantic, but US carriers like DL, UA, and AA are using 767s and 777s across the Atlantic?

    I was emphasizing efficiency and not size. The 747 is not that much more fuel efficient than a 772 whereas the A380 will be. And was thinking of busier routes or longer ranged ones such as LAX-N RT, LAX-SYD, CDG-LAX, SFO-F RA, not JFK-STR.
     
    dynkrisolo
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    RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 2:20 am


    Most US airlines are run very inefficiently.


    Debatable, some may agree, many won't.


    And to top it off, most people would prefer the European service, thus it's easier to fill the planes.


    I don't think the actual traffic would support your assertion.


    The 747 is not that much more fuel efficient than a 772 whereas the A380 will be.


    Hmmm... Why are you conveniently left out the 767? FWIW, according to Boeing, the 744 still costs around 10% less than the 772ER on a per seat basis.


    And was thinking of busier routes or longer ranged ones such as LAX-N RT, LAX-SYD, CDG-LAX, SFO-F RA, not JFK-STR


    LHR-JFK is the busiest trans Oceanic route. UA and AA don't use any 744, even though UA has a large 744 fleet. UA and AA don't have as many flights as BA and VS have, but UA and AA probably have higher percentage of O&D traffic which usually have higher yield than connecting traffic. UA and AA have a trans-Atlantic network that doesn't require them to funnel most of their European traffic through LHR, but BA and VS have to. Depending on the composition of traffic and volume, it's not always necessary to use the aircraft with the lowest seat cost to make the most profit.
     
    RT514
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    RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 2:24 am

    Isn't it odd how the 7E7 has been out for like a month and a half and has nearly half the orders of the A380, which has been out for something like 5 years?

    Isn't it odd that you don't realize that the A380 is a niche aircraft while the 7E7 is not and therefore the 7E7 should sell in much higher numbers considering their respective places in commercial service?


    Although NW may not be the US carrier talked about here, I feel confident that some A380's will eventually be wearing NW livery. Perhaps it's many years off, but I'm certain it will happen. It just seems that all other US passenger carriers either do not have the capacity needs or the financial resources to acquire the A380.

    Despite my certainty, this is still is just a prediction on my part, of course.


    *edited for spelling

    [Edited 2004-06-13 19:28:06]
     
    nosedive
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    RE: Shocker - Airbus In Talks With US Airlines 4 A380

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 3:07 am

    Though I do not dispute the claim that NW is looking at the A380, I somehow doubt that these planes will see PAX service. I wonder if NW is looking at these beasts for their cargo runs.....