CalPilot17
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Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

Mon Jun 14, 2004 5:41 am

Will the a380 be like the Concord and only enjoy the prestige of being like the concord in that it will serve only a limited niche market and receive a lot publicity, or will the airplane be as proposed, a cash cow.
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whitehatter
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RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:07 am

They are completely opposite concepts

Fuel costs killed Concorde's order book, as did lack of capacity and range. The A380 is the other side of that, high capacity and efficiency.

When the 747 was produced at roughly the same time as Concorde, the airlines went for capacity and economical operation. Nothing has changed in that sector.

The A380 is targeted at an existing market for subsonic efficient planes.
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Jaws707
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RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:08 am

Right now in terms of sales the A380 has been very succesful. I believe they have sold about 129 of them, and that all the delevery slots are filled for the 1st 2 years. They also have many more potential customers in the pipeline such as Thai, UPS, and SAA, among others, so hopefully some of these orders will be announced in the upcoming airshow.
 
rabenschlag
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RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:13 am

do you mean concord, massachusetts? thats the place where thoreau and emerson lived, right? for sure, thoreaus fake hut is no cash cow at all (actually, you can visit it for free), although a lot of people use to go there.

i think the A380 will be very different from that. its most important function was to kill boeings monopoly on very large planes. for 20+ years they could charge whatever they wanted because there was no competition. but beyond this important function, some airlines seem to be willing to pay for the A380.
 
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RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:15 am

They've actually sold way less than predicted by Airbus themselves (500 firm orders before the end of 2004)...
And of those 129 orders (which include options btw...) over 100 were placed within the first few months when ordering was open and are at the introductory price which is below construction price.

Yes, the A380 may well end up like Concorde in that it will be in service in very small numbers on a limited number of routes.
If you count in that a part of those 129 are cargo aircraft that will never see passenger service and will fly mainly at night the chances of ever flying one are even less.

Then you have to remember that at one time there were well over a hundred orders for Concorde as well, all of which (except the AF and BA orders which were government mandated) were cancelled when the EU and US introduced prohibitions against civilian aircraft overflying land at supersonic speeds.
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N79969
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RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:17 am

I think a better title for this thread would be, "Will the A380 Be Like the MD-11" That would be a better comparison. The MD-11 also did well in terms of advanced orders but it did not meet its specs. That is a more realistic risk facing Airbus. The Concorde was more unique in a lot of ways.
 
JHSfan
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RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:25 am

  • The Concorde was made in very small numbers only - A380 will be made in more.

  • The Concorde went Mach 2 Smokin cool - A380 will NOT!

  • A380 will have more than one class onboard - had the Concorde more than one luxurious class?

  • In general the cheapest price for a seat in A380 will be much lower than the price was on the Concorde. More people will be able to say: I have been flying on an A380! (= reduced prestige).

  • How many airports will be able to receive the A380 in the future? I guess that this issue will be a limiting factor for the use of A380 in it's first years of service. Could make this a bit more fashionable than the other planes.


  • The Concorde was a (multi seat) Ferrari Smokin cool, the A380 will be a big luxurious bus.  Smile
    I just don't think the A380 reach the same level of fame as the Concorde.

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    GDB
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    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:26 am

    I think the comments above say it all really, however there might be one thing similar, Concorde also suffered from senior US politicians saying that they'd never allow Concorde to land in the US, funnily enough just their own (mostly government funded) SST project was axed.
    A case of 'if you can't beat them, stop them').
    In the end it was worked out, but along with the fuel price hikes it did for Concorde
    .
    Now there are concerns that some US airports like SFO are dragging their feet on preparing for A380, not quite the same as the situation with Concorde landing rights, but as orders for A380 gather, as Boeing seems not to offer a direct competitor, as an election year looms with the usual protectionist calls from some US politicians, pressure might mount to invent a reason for making A380's life difficult in the US.

    I've seen from previous posts that your one of those 'Airbus wins by government subsidies' types, not so, in any case Concorde provided some valuable lessons on how to do, and not do, a multinational airliner programme, which Concorde was the first of.

    Also, remember that the 'orders' for Concorde were mostly options, the situation with A380 is very different.

    But I suspect there is an element of wishful thinking in the title of this post.
     
    whitehatter
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    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:29 am

    Then you have to remember that at one time there were well over a hundred orders for Concorde as well, all of which (except the AF and BA orders which were government mandated) were cancelled when the EU and US introduced prohibitions against civilian aircraft overflying land at supersonic speeds.

    Concorde was fatally damaged by fuel costs. That's what turned the airlines off.

    The other issue was range. A Concorde could not perform transpacific routes.

    The overland issue wasn't as important as those two factors; transoceanic routes are by their very nature not over land for any considerable time.
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    CalPilot17
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    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:31 am

    The reason why I make the comparison is because they are both high profile major undertakings with many risks involved being made by a multi national company. And they both face(d) problems with available routes and airports.

    The a380 is a extreme with is shear size as the Concord was a extreme with its speed.
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    whitehatter
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    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:40 am

    It is an extreme engineering project, but doesn't have those killer problems that Concorde had.

    Namely high fuel burn per passenger. A ton of fuel per head from LHR to JFK isn't economical!

    Concorde did have some spinoff benefits though. Rolls Royce developed the Olympus core into a very successful marine engine, and the experience of materials and manufacturing across European borders has all been worthwhile.
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    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:54 am

    The a380 is a extreme with is shear size as the Concord was a extreme with its speed

    I don't see the A380 as an extreme plane. It is a normal development more than 35 years after the 747. A bigger aircraft to responds to bigger needs: What's extreme?

    Reading your stupid post in another thread, I suspect that you would not have stated this if Boeing were developing this aircraft...  Yeah sure
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    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:56 am

    Not really, A380 is nowhere near as big a risk technically as Concorde was, it is a step up from 747, but nowhere near as big a step from 707/DC-8 to 747.

    With Concorde BAC and SUD were not only undertaking a huge technical challenge, but were learning the hard way about multi-national co-operation, had this part been done better, Concorde's costs could have been reduced by up to 25%

    In fact, Concorde was a step on the way to Airbus, the early fly by wire on Concorde was just one of the technical innovations that were realized with Airbus.

    One thing though, Pan-Am and TWA (the only 2 US carriers with really suitable routes for Concorde) cancelled their options for Concorde before the fuel crisis, because they were both in financial trouble, the recession of the early 70's was bad, also PA and TWA both had ordered too many 747s which they were struggling to fill, the last thing they needed was another advanced type to introduce, the early months of 747 service were plagued with problems, in particular with the early JT9D engines.

    A380, like all airliners, will be offered in a range of versions, with Concorde you had a 3500 mile range aircraft certified to seat up to 128 pax.
    Concorde B, a study for some improvements, was too late, had it been in the running sooner a few more (but only a few) airlines might have ordered as the economic situation improved, for example LH, Concorde B could do Frankfurt to New York non stop, with Concorde you needed two cities that were major financial centres for plenty of business traffic, mostly separated by ocean.
    Hong Kong or Tokyo to Singapore is another example.
    http://www.concordesst.com/concordeb.html

    The A380 is a much more flexible machine.
    BA made Concorde into a money maker by the mid 1980's, after they took over all responsibility for it and got imaginative and aggressive with marketing.


     
    whitehatter
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    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:08 am

    Not really, A380 is nowhere near as big a risk technically as Concorde was, it is a step up from 747, but nowhere near as big a step from 707/DC-8 to 747.



    There is also the change in the way Airbus uses construction materials to consider. Introducing GLARE and other composites to a much greater degree in the structure of the A380 presents its own challenges, so the A380 is an engineering move forward for them as well.

    There is another aspect too, the GP7200. Pratt and GE combining on a project!
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    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:18 am

    Fuel costs killed Concorde's order book

    actually noise killed the Concorde. In a supercruise Concorde was the most fuel efficient plane ever made by man, but unfotunately it was too noisy to fly supersonic over land. When not in a supercruise Concorde is thirsty.
     
    whitehatter
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    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:24 am

    A ton of fuel is still a ton of fuel, no matter how fast you go or how efficient the engines are at any given point.

    A 747 moving 400 passengers across the Atlantic doesn't use anything close to 400 tons of fuel.
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    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:29 am

    i wasnt haing a go WhiteHatter i was just pointing out Concorde was one hell of a plane
     
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    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:00 am

    I know  Wink/being sarcastic

    Economics just were not on it's side. The other killer was the inability to do transpacific runs, which is what the US carriers wanted it for.

    That's always been something they have wanted to offer, a fast service into Asia and Australia for business travellers.
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    GDB
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    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:15 am

    It's worth remembering that Concorde's range was not that different to the airliners in service when it was developed, a B model could have done Transpacific with a stop at Hawaii, but by the time it was in service the widebodies were here, which was not foreseen in the early 60's.

    Some US carriers optioned Concorde for runs to South America as well as the hope that limited overland would be allowed for US coast to coast, BA Concorde, on charters, was able with permission to operate supersonically over Northern Canada, as OAG did on it's last flight from JFK to Seattle.

    But it is hard to see any parallels between Concorde and A380 except at the most superficial levels, A380 has been designed for a market radically different to when Concorde was designed.

    Concorde in many ways was more akin to Apollo, at least that was what some NASA guys reckoned in 1997 when they visited BA Concorde Engineering, for advice on operating an aging fleet of unique air vehicles long out of production, like the Shuttle.
     
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    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 9:59 am

    A 747 moving 400 passengers across the Atlantic doesn't use anything close to 400 tons of fuel

    um, neither did Concorde  Laugh out loud
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    whitehatter
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    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:04 am

    so how much fuel does it take a Concorde to cross the atlantic then?

    http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,60829,00.html

    One ton of fuel per passenger on Concorde

    [Edited 2004-06-14 03:06:09]
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    ConcordeBoy
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    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:13 am

    ...ah, I see what you're saying.

    From the previous post, it seemed you were insinuating that Concorde required 400 tons to op.
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    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:17 am

    Just a guess Roberta might of been referring to the fact Concorde was more efficient at cruise speed than at subsonic speeds--because, it is certainly not the most efficient aircraft of its era!
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    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:40 am


    I suspect many potential customers are waiting as the 380 starts to run the numbers. If Airbus is on target it will sell the 250-300 they require to recoupe developement costs.

    If it goes the way of the 346 it could be a huge problem.

    Only time will tell.
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    whitehatter
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    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:41 am

    That's what Roberta meant, fuel burn per mile per passenger in supercruise mode.

    It's the hideously thirsty afterburners needed for acceleration and takeoff that guzzle the fuel. Military jets are no different.
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    dreamcraft
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    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 11:00 am

    Like I said in another discussion, I do think the A380 will be a flop. I don't think that it will meet it's performance targets (if the A345/6 models are anything to to go by). I also think that that Boeing has a better handle on the future of aviation with its 7E7 model. The size is just right. Not too many Airlines are going to be able to operate a 500 plus seat beheamoth profitably.
    I sincerely hope that I am wrong however, for Airbus' sake, as I do think they make great aircraft generally.
    As YUL332LX from Canada suggested it should be a naturally progressive improvement over the B747.
     
    StevenUhl777
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    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 11:38 am

    Never...

    Concorde always ends with an 'e'

    Airbus always ends with an 's'

    The 380 will hold 5 1/2 times the number of people, and the fare paying passenger on the A380 will pay just a small fraction of what a Concorde passenger paid.
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    dl021
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    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:11 pm

    The A-380 will succeed as an airliner, of this there is little doubt. It will successfully carry the number of people advertised the distances promised (unless somebody screws up bigtime), I think the real question is will there be enough airports willing to make the changes necessary to accomodate this bird, and will passengers be willing to meet the schedule of this aircraft, instead of having the airline meet their schedule by using two or three aircraft at different times? The real questions left are will AIrbus sell enough to recoup cost and make profit, and will airlines be able to use them effectively in getting passengers willing to fly on AIr France's schedule (par example)?

    I actually would like to see this thing work if for no other reason than to make Boeing team up with Lockheed and build the BWB and really puch the limits  Smile

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    AnsettB727
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    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:21 pm

    *Snore* Why oh why oh why can't Boeing people just accept that this is a big plane that's going to happen, just the same way the 747 did?

    I teach teenagers about other cultures for a living, and I'll tell you the same thing I tell them: IT'S NOT BETTER OR WORSE THAN A 747, IT'S JUST DIFFERENT!

    Boeing will sell Dreamliners, Airbus will sell A380s, and the world will be a happy place.

    You really get the feeling there are a lot of VERY scared Americans out there, which is why they feel the need to continually jump to their own defence.
     
    whitehatter
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    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:27 pm

    Nobody can give a definitive answer to whether the A380 will be a success until 10-20 years into the future, when it has been in constant production/service and the glitches well and truly ironed out.

    It does have a lot of hype to live up to.

    The success of a model includes such factors as whether airlines continue ordering it, not just how many sign on in year one. It will also make Airbus money in the support sector as parts will be needed for the fleet for many years.

    I hope it does succeed. Competition drives innovation. There is also passenger number growth to consider, and the A380 is well-placed to help airlines increase their business.
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    Tasha
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    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:41 pm

    Most everyone here seems to really be missing the point.

    The point is that the Concord was the only operational SST (not counting the TU144) - but not perhaps the best SST (if the best for the time).

    The World still needs SST service linking the great financial centers of the world. Lets not forget that Concord was a product of EARLY 1960s technologies as these where deemed safe and reliable during design. Imagine what could be done with 21st Century technologies and materials!

    The World also needs an aircraft like the A380. To fly on routes as JFK-LHR, or perhaps Orlando - Gulfport unloading nothing but elderly for day trips to the local casinos  Laugh out loud Being a Boeing fan, I would naturally love to see a super-stretched version of the B747. That doesn't mean I wouldn't jump instantly at the chance to ride a A380 however!!!!!

    A comparison between the A380 and Concord is unwarranted and meaningless.

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    VS11
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    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:01 pm

    Well, Concorde was a politically mandated project. It was bound by an agreement between France and the UK, and there was no clause for terminating the agreement. The Brits did try to cancel it several times but the French would not have it so Concorde had to be built. The priorities at the time were different than priorities now. I do not know how much of Airbus is governments' property but A380 is not politically driven but economically so there is no reason to assume the A380 will end up as Concorde.

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    gigneil
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    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:02 pm

    And of those 129 orders (which include options btw...) over 100 were placed within the first few months when ordering was open and are at the introductory price which is below construction price.

    129 orders does not include options. They're firm.

    Yes, 100 orders+options were placed in the first few months, but after that it stayed at 69 for several years.

    N
     
    N79969
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    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:15 pm

    "Nobody can give a definitive answer to whether the A380 will be a success until 10-20 years into the future, when it has been in constant production/service and the glitches well and truly ironed out."

    I do not think it will take nearly that long. The market judged the MD-11 to be uncompetitive in far less time. Same for the A340-200. The A320 and B777 became hits in less time as well.

    Like I said before, I do not think the Concorde is the right comparison for the A380.
     
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    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:36 pm

    The 747 would have been a failure had the airlines that ordered it known how hard it would be to fill all those seats. It succeeded because the airlines misjudged the initial market. By the time the market actually did grow enough to accomodate the 747, it was well entrenched and ready.

    The same thing could happen to the A380 - in ten to twenty years there probably will be real demand for the plane. If Emirates(especially) and the others who have ordered it turn out to be wrong, they will suffer more than Airbus will - because by the time such a failure is clear, the market will have grown enough to trully demand more A380's.

    But the 747 had one thing going for it that the A380 doesn't - a superior range. Most of the early demand for the 747 was for its range, not its capacity. In fact, Boeing argues that this was the case until pretty recently - when the 777, A340 and MD11 matched(or nearly matched) the 747's range. Once that happened, interest in the passenger 747 went way down.

    IN SHORT.....The 747 did not succeed because it was big, in fact it was far to big for the market at the time of its launch. It succeeded because of its range and because of airline misjudgements. Even now, the demand for 777+ size aircraft looks bigger than it is because airlines need the range these superwidebodies provide. One has to keep this in mind when comparing the situations. However, as has been mentioned, the A380 is not as big a jump up in capacity as the 747 was and this also needs to be considered.
     
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    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:27 am

    My opinion, and I'm not an aviation professional, is that the A380 serves a market already handled by the A340, A330, 747 and 777. Perhaps this will limit its numbers, I don't know.

    There seems to be an under-current of hostility when discussing issues of Airbus and Boeing or EU and USA. From my standpoint, we're takin' airplanes!!! The more of them, the better. The more kinds, the better. I love lookin' at 'em. I love flyin' on 'em, and I don't much care who made 'em.

    There!! That is my emotional outburst.

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    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:59 am

    Like I said in another discussion, I do think the A380 will be a flop. I don't think that it will meet it's performance targets (if the A345/6 models are anything to to go by).

    Errr A345/6 actually did meet their performance targets its just DR which is letting them down.

    Just a guess Roberta might of been referring to the fact Concorde was more efficient at cruise speed than at subsonic speeds--because, it is certainly not the most efficient aircraft of its era!

    i kid you not, Concorde was the most fuel efficient passenger plane ever built when flying at supersonic speeds. Well according to Concorde Boy.

    [Edited 2004-06-14 18:07:20]
     
    Alessandro
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    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:01 am

    Cloudy, so why was a short-range version B747 built then?
    As for comparing A380 with Concorde, I think A380 can be successful as cargo hauler, something I don´t think the Concorde ever was planned to do?

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    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:13 am

    . . . Concorde was the most fuel efficient passenger plane ever built when flying at supersonic speeds. Well according to Concorde Boy . . .

    First, I don't think CB ever said these words. Usually Fred picks his words quite carefully . . .  Innocent, but I'm sure he'll get back to you on that one.


    Concorde was by no means the most efficient plane ever built. What you are reffering to is, that at supercruise Concorde's engines were, and probably still are the most fuel efficient engines ever built. At supercruise the thermodynamic efficiency of the RR Olympus engine was better than any other engine at whatever speed.

    Problem with supercruise is, however, that vast amounts of energy are required to overcome supersonic drag at M2. So while the engines may be running super efficient, that efficiency is totally overwhelmed by the huge amount of energy required to fly at that speed. Which is nicely demonstrated by the fact that to fly 100 pax from LHR to JFK on Concorde required approx. 100 tons of fuel, or 1 ton of fuel per pax. Modern planes like the 744/773/340 require less than 0.15 tons of fuel per pax for the same route.

    PW100



    Oh yeah, I totally agree that it's totally irrelevant to compare the A380 with Concorde in whatever way . . . . Even comparing the A380 to the 7E7 does not make much sense either.
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    american762
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    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:44 am

    The A380 is nothing more than a new aircraft...it isn't revolutionizing air travel in a sincere way that the Concorde did.

    However for the first 2 years, the A380 will still be something very special to see at the airports...it was just recentley that the 777 became a little more common and not as impressive...but it still turns plenty of heads in amazement.

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    GDB
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    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Tue Jun 15, 2004 5:01 am

    At mach 2 a bit less than 50% of the 'energy' was provided by the engine thrust.
    38,000 lb thrust (including reheat) on take off per engine, maintaining supercruise required around 10,000 lb per engine.
    Yes, a lot of energy was used for take off and the transonic to supersonic regime, again had Concorde B been built it would have dispensed with reheat entirely.
    Olympus 593 was in supercruise the most thermally efficient engine to have flown in service, around 43%

    Of course none of this is relevant to A380, only in that it is so far the pinnacle of the Airbus range, of which Concorde is a descendant.
     
    fraspotter
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    Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 8:12 pm

    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Tue Jun 15, 2004 5:26 am

    JHSfan,

    The concord had 2 classes, first class and business class. They were just about the same however.
    "Drunk drivers run stop signs. Stoners wait for them to turn green."
     
    cloudy
    Posts: 1613
    Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2002 3:23 pm

    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:45 pm

    Cloudy, so why was a short-range version B747 built then?
    As for comparing A380 with Concorde, I think A380 can be successful as cargo hauler, something I don´t think the Concorde ever was planned to do?
    ----

    There were not many of the short range version built. It was built mainly for the Japanese domestic market. The short range version was easy for and cheap for Boeing to develop because they mainly just took out fuel tanks. There are so few differences between the versions that 747 domestics can be converted to standard-range 747s. It is true that a small minority of 747's were truly wanted only for their size. But range was undeniably the major selling point in the plane's first decade, and it was a big factor in most sales after that. If the 747 had the same range as the 707(or even the DC-10 and L1011), it would unquestionably have been a major failure no matter when it was launched.

    Because the A380 lacks a range advantage over its nearest competitors (mainly the A340-600 and 777-300), its situation is not the same as that of the 747 at the time of its launch. Now that airlines can get that range in smaller sized planes then the 747, they are using more of those planes than the 747. This calls into question the true size of the near-term market for a plane even bigger than the 747.

    But the Asian market is growing, and the A380 does not have as much added capacity as the 747 did at the time of its launch, so we will have to see.

    [Edited 2004-06-15 06:52:25]
     
    User avatar
    RayChuang
    Posts: 7982
    Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Tue Jun 15, 2004 10:07 pm

    I think there will be some demand for the A380-800, especially to and from airports that have slot control restrictions (there are a good number of them around the world).

    I think in the end we will see the A388 dominate the high-density long routes, but planes like the 7E7-8, 7E7-9, and 777-200ER dominate the lower-density long routes. The A340-600 and 777-300ER will essentially function as replacements for the 747-100/200 models, though of course the A346 and 773ER have longer range.
     
    Scorpio
    Posts: 4763
    Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Tue Jun 15, 2004 10:39 pm

    Jwenting,

    They've actually sold way less than predicted by Airbus themselves (500 firm orders before the end of 2004)...

    Airbus never predicted any such thing.
     
    GDB
    Posts: 12652
    Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

    Class

    Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:08 am

    Concorde only had 1 class and it was identical in the fwd and rear cabin, regular pax did exercise seating preference, e.g. Sir David Frost, a very regular user, preferred row 23 near the back as there were often a few empty seats which he found easier when he wanted to snooze.
    Others preferred the first few rows of the fwd cabin.
     
    VSXA380X800
    Posts: 401
    Joined: Wed May 19, 2004 10:03 am

    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Wed Jun 16, 2004 6:05 am

    Will the A380 be like the Concorde.
    Well I guess what kind of answer you are really looking for.

    -High cost
    -How rare the aircraft is going to be seen, like the A345's
    4 decks 4 engines 4 long haul
     
    VSXA380X800
    Posts: 401
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    RE: Will The A380 Be Like The Concord

    Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:09 am

    I don't see the A380 as an extreme plane. It is a normal development more than 35 years after the 747. A bigger aircraft to responds to bigger needs: What's extreme?

    The 747(1,2,3,400) was considered an extreme aircraft. Then that MUST mean that the A380 is an extreme aircraft way before the aircraft was introduced.

    ''Fuel costs killed Concorde's order book''

    ''actually noise killed the Concorde''

    ACTUALLY your both right, I was watching this documentary type thing about the Concorde and the people in Queens New York( right next to JKF) were relieve that the Concorde was retiring. On the other hand the Concorde was mostly flown by celebrities and people with a lot of money and that was a very little amount of people ,so Air France gave up and British Airways followed.
    4 decks 4 engines 4 long haul