United Airline
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LAX-SYD: Qantas VS United (Market Share)

Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:02 pm

Hi folks. Who is doing better on this route???? I believe its Qantas right? I mean in terms of passengers carried.

How many flights per day for Qantas? 3 times I guess?

[Edited 2004-06-15 14:03:42]

[Edited 2004-06-15 14:19:20]
 
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VirginFlyer
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RE: LAX-SYD: Qantas VS United (Performance)

Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:16 pm

In answer to you second question, check out http://www.qantas.com.au/flightinfo/dyn/ScheduleSearch

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
United Airline
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RE: LAX-SYD: Qantas VS United (Market Share)

Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:23 pm

Umm.......... so not triple daily.

But who is doing better? Guess QF?
 
767er
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RE: LAX-SYD: Qantas VS United (Market Share)

Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:25 pm

QF walks all over UA SYD LAX with their triple flights daily. Don't forget they fly AKL LAX 10 times per week.
Aircraft flown:F27,Viscount. EMB120, SAAB340, ATR70, 737-200.737-300,DC8, DC10,747-100,747-200,747-300,747-400, A320, A3
 
United Airline
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RE: LAX-SYD: Qantas VS United (Market Share)

Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:27 pm

SYD-LAX direct is double daily right? And 3 times a day on certain days of the week right?
 
Qantasclub
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RE: LAX-SYD: Qantas VS United (Market Share)

Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:31 pm

Qantas has the overwhelming majority in terms of market share on this route and rightly so: They offer a much better product than UA with greater frequency, newer planes, PTVs in economy and way better service.
Their flights are constantly overbooked and therefore cost more than UAL's single daily which you can always get a seat on at a fraction of the price. You get what you pay for I guess.
Long Haul is the only way to go
 
United Airline
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RE: LAX-SYD: Qantas VS United (Market Share)

Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:38 pm

You sure UA is cheaper than QF? Coz last time I checked, the prices were the same.
 
Qantasclub
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RE: LAX-SYD: Qantas VS United (Market Share)

Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:45 pm


The last time I booked a flight in Jan-UA was about 200 bucks cheaper-I still went with Qantas, but if they are the same price, even more reason to fly with QF. UA is just plain second rate.
Long Haul is the only way to go
 
cx123
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RE: LAX-SYD: Qantas VS United (Market Share)

Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:56 pm

Usually they are the same but sometimes UA release some specials.
Like there is a Z Class (Discount Business) special at the moment for only 6500AUD,
For QF the cheapest one is around >$8000.

I tried both and find QF is better, but United is not too bad compared to toehr US airlines.

 
United Airline
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RE: LAX-SYD: Qantas VS United (Market Share)

Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:56 pm

Yeah. Though I am a UA fan, I must say QF beats UA on this route. New first class, new business class, newer planes, PTVs on every single seat etc etc........
 
nickofatlanta
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RE: LAX-SYD: Qantas VS United (Market Share)

Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:30 pm

Qantasclub -

I agree with you that QF is a high quality airline - I've always been impressed when I've flown them. However, there are two areas in which QF comes in second place to UA:

1) Economy Plus
QF has no Economy Plus product. QF elite frequent flyers and full fare passengers enjoy the same cramped space as everyone else in Economy Class. On UA, they enjoy 3-4 inches more legroom. To me - and I suspect many others - seat comfort in more important than service. Besides, there is only so much service that any airline offers in Economy Class.

2) Frequent Flyer Programmes
QF award levels are a lot higher in many cases than those on UA. I suspect this is because many of its routes are so much longer than UA. For passengers on SYD-LAX - the route this thread is discussing, an Economy Class passenger would need to flying on a discount fare would need to fly:

- 11 one-way flights from SYD-LAX for a free round-trip ticket in Economy Class on the QF frequent flyer programme. You would need to fly 15 one-way SYD-LAX flights to have enough points for a free round-trip to JFK.

- 9 one-way flights for a free Economy Class ticket in the UA programme from SYD to anywhere in North America. A far better deal than QF!

The differences are even greater when it comes to the premium cabins. You would need to fly:

- 22 one-way discount economy flights on QF from SYD-LAX to have enough points for a free round-trip Business Class ticket from SYD-LAX. 27 one-way flights for First Class.

- 12 one-way discount economy flights on UA from SYD-LAX to have enough points for a free round-trip Business Class ticket from SYD to anywhere in North America. 17 one-ways for First Class.

Thus, I think it's fair to say that UA wins hands down in the frequent flyer department.
 
tekelberry
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RE: LAX-SYD: Qantas VS United (Market Share)

Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:35 pm

Nickofatlanta,

You can earn miles with any of the oneworld carriers on QF. Same goes with Star Alliance on UA.
 
United Airline
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RE: LAX-SYD: Qantas VS United (Market Share)

Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:51 pm

So what are their market share %?
 
nickofatlanta
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RE: LAX-SYD: Qantas VS United (Market Share)

Wed Jun 16, 2004 12:08 am

Tekelberry -

I am fully aware that you can earn miles any oneworld frequent flyer programme for travel on QF. However, none would be as generous as the UA programme. AA would have been close in the past before the earning rules on QF changed. When travelling on most discount fares on QF, AA members now earn only 50% of flight miles - down from 70% before the changes. Thus, I still think UA wins when it comes to frequent flyer programmes.
 
United Airline
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RE: LAX-SYD: Qantas VS United (Market Share)

Wed Jun 16, 2004 12:19 am

UA has the most generous FF program. Also UA is extremely generous on upgrades!!!!!!
 
tekelberry
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RE: LAX-SYD: Qantas VS United (Market Share)

Wed Jun 16, 2004 12:22 am

When travelling on most discount fares on QF, AA members now earn only 50% of flight miles - down from 70% before the changes. Thus, I still think UA wins when it comes to frequent flyer programmes.

If someone is travelling using the AA codeshare, s/he will still earn 100% miles.

[Edited 2004-06-15 17:23:28]
 
QANTASpower
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RE: LAX-SYD: Qantas VS United (Market Share)

Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:03 am

It is estimated that QF has between 70-80% market share of DIRECT Australia to US flights. However this includes Melbourne services. Somedays they have 7 x 744's into LAX.

It is true they are killing it on this route. UA can't really compete given they do not have the resources to upgrade product etc.... hebce SQ's opportunistic attempts to access this route.

Does anybody know UA's actual loads on this route. I hope they do well as it is the only US carrier we have here is AUS.

QFpower





[Edited 2004-06-16 01:10:31]
 
aussie747
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RE: LAX-SYD: Qantas VS United (Market Share)

Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:45 am

It was read on Ausaviation that market share to QF was 74% and UA was market of 26% but this was only on direct passengers ex Australia not ex New Zealand. So if you incorporate New Zealand, the market share would be different.

Below is the QF schedule over the US Summer schedule to LAX

FLIGHT / DAY OF OPERATION / TIME ON GROUND

QF107/108 SYD-LAX / MTWTFSS / 0710hours to 2345hours
on journey to NYC on days below it is not on ground all day at LAX
QF 107/108 LAX to NYC / --W-F-S / 0905hours to 2205hours
not spent at LAX

QF11/12 SYD-LAX / MTWTFSS / 0945hours to 2230hours

QF149/8 SYD-LAX / --WTF-S / 0600hours to 1300hours

QF249/250 SYD-LAX / ----F-S / 1210 hours to 2350 hours

QF93/94 MEL-LAX / MTWTFSS / 0730hours to 2340hours

QF25/26 BNE-AKL-LAX / MTWTFSS / 1045hours to 2140 hours

QF155/156 AKL-LAX / M----S- / 0730hours to 2320hours

QF 175/176 BNE-LAX / --W-F-S / 0730hours to 2320 hours
 
United Airline
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RE: LAX-SYD: Qantas VS United (Market Share)

Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:35 pm

UA is a much larger airline than QF. Sure it is. However, given that they only have 2 flights from USA to Australia, I would say QF has a bigger market share. MUCH BIGGER maybe.....
 
United Airline
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RE: LAX-SYD: Qantas VS United (Market Share)

Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:18 pm

Hope UA can solve its financial problems ASAP and improve their products........

PTVs on every single seat, flatbed business class seats, better first class seats etc etc on their B 747-400s.
 
thadocta
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RE: LAX-SYD: Qantas VS United (Market Share)

Thu Jun 17, 2004 2:28 am

"UA has the most generous FF program. Also UA is extremely generous on upgrades!!!!!!

Which is why they are probably going to be seeking Chapter 11 again this year, namely the fact that they don't make money, and that thir premium cabins have become an "upgrade" class rather than a "paid" class (which Qantas has, since most of those in J and F actually PAY to be there - hence why they are one of the very few profitable carriers).

Dave
 
United Airline
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RE: LAX-SYD: Qantas VS United (Market Share)

Thu Jun 17, 2004 2:36 am

Which is why they are probably going to be seeking Chapter 11 again this year, namely the fact that they don't make money, and that thir premium cabins have become an "upgrade" class rather than a "paid" class (which Qantas has, since most of those in J and F actually PAY to be there - hence why they are one of the very few profitable carriers).

Probably going to be seeking Chapter 11 again??? UA is STILL in chapter 11 which they plan to exit in August 2004. Seeking for an extension.

UA was one of the most profitable airline before 2001. It has nothing to do with upgrades I THINK.
 
The Coachman
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RE: LAX-SYD: Qantas VS United (Market Share)

Thu Jun 17, 2004 11:12 am

You'd be surprised at what FF upgrades that are that easy to get do to yields United Airline...
M88, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73G, 73H, 742, 743, 744, 752, 762, 763, 772, 773, 77W, 320, 332, 333, 345, 388, DH8, SF3 - want
 
DCAYOW
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RE: LAX-SYD: Qantas VS United (Market Share)

Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:27 pm

Here is calendar year 2003 data (USDOT T100 databank):

Air Canada HNL - SYD 144,906 pax 202,937 seats (PLF 71.4%)

Air New Zealand LAX-SYD 39,006 pax 56,312 seats (PLF 69.3%)

QANTAS HNL-SYD 76,346 pax 104,268 seats (PLF 73.2%)

QANTAS LAX-MEL 183,189 pax 242,979 seats (PLF 75.4%)

QANTAS LAX-SYD 442,428 pax 568,490 seats (PLF 77.8%)

United LAX-SYD 198,790 pax 250,881 seats (PLF 79.2%)

United SFO-SYD 173,333 pax 242,206 (PLF 71.6%)

Market Share Breakout 2003: US-Australia

AIR CANADA 12%
AIR NZ 3%
QANTAS 56%
UNITED 30%
Retorne ao céu...
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: LAX-SYD: Qantas VS United (Market Share)

Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:33 pm

Thanks for those figures!

Trent.
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
United Airline
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RE: LAX-SYD: Qantas VS United (Market Share)

Fri Jun 18, 2004 2:10 am

What about the figures as well as the market share on LAX-SYD??? I mean for BOTH UA and QF.

Hawaiian Airlines has a small market in Australia too
 
PHXinterrupted
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RE: LAX-SYD: Qantas VS United (Market Share)

Fri Jun 18, 2004 2:16 am

"They offer a much better product than UA with greater frequency, newer planes, PTVs in economy and way better service."

Yeah right. The only thing QF has over UA is frequency. I much prefer UA's service over QF.
Keepin' it real.
 
United Airline
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RE: LAX-SYD: Qantas VS United (Market Share)

Fri Jun 18, 2004 3:08 am

If UA increases its frequency, can they get a bigger market share between Australia and USA?
 
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RE: LAX-SYD: Qantas VS United (Market Share)

Fri Jun 18, 2004 3:29 pm

Possibly, it would depend on price I expect. All the airlines on the Pacific routes to Australia tend to do well, except American Airlines when they had service a while back. Pan Am used to make heaps of money off the Pacific!

Hawaiian has only just started flights, so there are no figures on their market share yet!

Trent.
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
HALFA
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RE: LAX-SYD: Qantas VS United (Market Share)

Fri Jun 18, 2004 5:25 pm

I returned today from working HNL-SYD-HNL and can tell everyone here that our flights were full in both directions. I would estimate 90% were Australian.
I think the word is getting out that there are other air travel options between Australia and the US besides QF and UA.

Aloha
HA J Class Lie flats, coming soon to a plane near you........