dme
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:10 pm

IB And Marsans Group - News

Thu Jun 17, 2004 4:50 pm

IB and Marsans Group (Air_Plus_Comet, Pullmantur, AR, Spanair)

According to the Spanish economics newspaper "Cinco Días", IB will directly compete with Marsans companies in Central and SouthAmerica. IB will no more use the Miami hub and will change the routes which used until now Miami to direct flights from Madrid (flights from Madrid direct to Managua, San Pedro de Sula, Cancún, Ciudad de Panamá, San José de Costa Rica and San Salvador). At the same time, Marsans group (Air Plus, Pullmantur, AR) will add new routes to Perú, Ecuador and Méjico (Puerto Vallarta is running now and Guadalajara is going to be offered in July). Marsans will also add more flights by using the Spanair (owned by Marsans and SAS). They see closely the behavior of the new routes opened recently by Air Madrid to Central and South America. Very recently Spanair got an agreement with TAP for codesharing several flights within the iberian peninsula and the lcc company Vueling will offer new flights from Barcelona. At the same time IB is going to add new routes in the near future within Spain.

Things are moving in here!.


More information on the direct link (in Spanish) -> http://www.google.es/search?q=cache:yjP4aemkxhkJ:www.cincodias.com/articulo.html%3Fxref%3D20040616cdscdiemp_17%26type%3DTes%26anchor%3Dcdsemp+A.+Noriega+MADRID+Iberia+Marsans&hl=es)
 
Summa767
Posts: 1753
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 am

RE: IB And Marsans Group - News

Thu Jun 17, 2004 8:01 pm

Extra competition on the latin american market is very welcome. As for IB substituting the MIA hub sounds like a good thing, given the pain that it's go through the US these days. I guess they might serve 2 destination in one flight from MAD rather than serving every destination currently operated from MIA individually. Still a few more A340s needed though..
 
Iberia340600
Posts: 758
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2003 5:57 am

RE: IB And Marsans Group - News

Thu Jun 17, 2004 11:30 pm

Dme:

Please be advised that Iberia is studying the possibility of starting non-stop services to those destinations. Nothing has been set in stone. The same way IB was studying moving the HUB to another country which did not work out, now they are studying the feasibility of opening direct routes.

So before any rumors get started....please everyone realize that this is right now being studied and has not been confirmed that will happen.

[Edited 2004-06-17 16:31:29]
Visca Barça!!
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2300
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: IB And Marsans Group - News

Thu Jun 17, 2004 11:46 pm

IB will no more use the Miami hub and will change the routes which used until now Miami to direct flights from Madrid (flights from Madrid direct to Managua, San Pedro de Sula, Cancún, Ciudad de Panamá, San José de Costa Rica and San Salvador).

It's kind of fast to be stating with such vehemence all this. Eventhough transiting through US is more than a blunder these days, the MIA hub for IB remains being profitable for the company, and this has been said numerous times here.

I imagine that if the company were to split in branches all the Central America operation directly from MAD, frequencies would definitely be decreased, going from daily services to MIA, to a couple of weekly services to MAD. As said above, the company would probably have to put more than one destination in the same flight too. It should be interesting to see how this developes.


SOUTHAMERICA
 
IBERIA747
Posts: 1648
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:43 am

RE: IB And Marsans Group - News

Fri Jun 18, 2004 3:26 am

Iberia has not taken a decision about the Miami Hub at the moment. Nevertheless, I read today that they will announce their decision in about a month from now so...stay tuned.

Federico!!
I am back in Spain after my week of vacation in Guatemala. My trip report is about 50% done by now...it will be the largest report ever written in this website (I think), but it will be worth it...know why?? I was one of the passengers on flight IB6120 scheduled to leave MIA last saturday 12 late at night and that was supposed to arrive at MAD on sunday 13th at 14:30...if you haven´t heard about it, ask operations...if you already have...then you know what I´m talking about. Anyway...an interesting experience...wouldn´t be a problem to go through it again!!

Saludos y a ver cuánto aguanta el viejo y noble "Cervantes" llevando el nombre de Iberia.

Alfonso.
¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
 
JOSEMEX
Posts: 1437
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RE: IB And Marsans Group - News

Fri Jun 18, 2004 3:42 am


>if you haven´t heard about it, ask operations...if you already have...then you know what I´m talking about<

Come on Alfonso, tell us! No nos tengas en ascuas!

I guess the airplane was "Cervantes"?
 
IBERIA747
Posts: 1648
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:43 am

RE: IB And Marsans Group - News

Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:02 am

Hola José!!

Don´t worry, I will tell you EVERYTHING on my report...it was a wierd but a nice experience at the same time...everything has always a positive side!!
I think that the reprot will be finished and posted during the weekend, so stay on line!!

And yes...the airplane was "Cervantes"...

Saludos!!

Alfonso.
¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
 
richardw
Posts: 3136
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 3:17 am

RE: IB And Marsans Group - News

Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:30 am

Is their a Don Quixote then?
 
Guest

RE: IB And Marsans Group - News

Fri Jun 18, 2004 5:14 am

Hola Alfonso

Cervantes was the aircraft I had the pleasure of travelling to Miami in at the end of April, well looked after in first class upper deck. I enjoyed it so much, I wish I could do it again. I hope my old trusted friend is OK and still going strong in the Iberia fleet. "¡Viva Cervantes!"  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Espero con ganas leer tu reportaje.

Andy
 
Arcano
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RE: IB And Marsans Group - News

Fri Jun 18, 2004 6:04 am

Remember also Marsans is going to enter in the Chilean market by Aerolineas del Sur. They are planning to compete with LAN network and later start other airlines in the region: bolivia, Paraguay and Uruguay, although PU purchase has been delayed.
Aerolineas del Sur, the name of the new Chilean airline (Marsans/AR), will fly in late september. They'll start domestically, and then EZE, MIA, FFK and MAD.

Arcano )(
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
PDPsol
Posts: 1109
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:09 am

RE: IB And Marsans Group - News

Fri Jun 18, 2004 6:37 am

They are planning to compete with LAN network and later start other airlines in the region: bolivia, Paraguay and Uruguay, although PU purchase has been delayed.

Actually, AR has ceased negotiations with RG for control of PU. In exchange for PU, RG wanted to restrict AR's market flexibility and operations in Brazil (sounds fishy, doesn't it?). Naturally, AR walked away from the deal.

Also, Marsans' shareholders have a very small equity stake in JK (less than 5%). SK purchased an additional interest in JK from Marsans' shareholders last year.

I was under the impression that Air Comet (A7) and Pullmantur were purely charter operations without scheduled services. AR is their only 'real' carrier and is actually doing rather well; after all, how hard can it be to operate an airline controlling 85% of the domestic Argentine cabotage market!!! Hopefully, LA will give AR and Marsans a real run their money and AR will do the same to LA with Aerolineas del Sur.

As I'm sure everyone knows, Marsans is launching an initial public offering (IPO) of AR on the Buenos Aires this fall.

G9 will join LA next month with a listing on the New York Stock Exchange after it completes its US IPO.

- PDPsol
 
Iberia340600
Posts: 758
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RE: IB And Marsans Group - News

Sat Jun 19, 2004 10:40 am

Hola Alfonso!

Yes I am quite aware what happened in Miami last Saturday! But I thought it was the afternoon flight that had to come back? Maybe it was two different things? E-mail me if you wish. I know because I had to go to JFK and help out with the problem we had there. The afternoon flight got cancelled due to a technical problem with the aircraft and I had a large corporate group that was scheduled to catch a cruise out of Barcelona. I went there personally to help them out. They caught the cruise a day late out of Corsica but at least I was able to get them there. Thank god!

Looking forward to your trip report!!!

Federico
Visca Barça!!
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: IB And Marsans Group - News

Sat Jun 19, 2004 7:21 pm

Pdpsol:

Most A7 scheduled flights operate with AR flight numbers, as they start/continue AR services to/from CDG, LGW and MXP.

PU has started a price war over the trans-River Plate routes since it took delivery of their first ATR-42 in April (the second will follow shortly). You can fly the AEP-PDP route return for US$78 now and, for Semana Santa at least, AR was seriously competing with fares in the US$80-90 region. It's strange though how in spite of AR's much larger fleet, almost year round, PU offers more flights between AEP and MVD/PDP than AR.
Now that Uruguay's LCC Uair has secured operating rights into AEP, POA, ASU and SCL, does anyone know when they intend to begin services to said destinations?
As for AR's bid to buy RG's 49% stake in the Uruguayan flag carrier, as far as I know, it's been called off indefinitely, and as Pdpsol states, on account of problems between AR and RG as opposed to AR and the Uruguayan government.
Speaking of Marsans, has AR's second B747-400 got lost on the way? It was due two weeks ago. Marsans Veep J.M. Llodrá also remained suspiciously silent about AR's 5th A340-200, and the second MD-83 due this (austral) winter. Are they still due?

XV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
PDPsol
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RE: IB And Marsans Group - News

Sat Jun 19, 2004 10:56 pm

Hi LVZXV!

Wow! Who doesn't love a good price war! US$78 R/T between AEP/PDP sounds like a great bargain and could put the Buquebus (passenger service only, not the auto ferry traffic) people out of business!

Lotsa exciting stuff happening with the River Plate air transport market, it seems. UAir could give both AR and PU/RG a real run for their money; of course, I have NO idea when they plan on initiating service on the 'cash cow' MVD-AEP shuttle route.

As for AR's grandiose plans, I suspect they are turning out to be just that, grandiose! When will the second 744 get to EZE? Who knows? When will they accept their fifth 342? Who knows? I did see they just accepted an MD-83 from Flying Finn, but what about the second 310? And, when are the 733 and 735's arriving? Hmmmm....

With these guys, no one ever seems to know what they are up to...
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: IB And Marsans Group - News

Sun Jun 20, 2004 1:17 am

With AR, you have to grasp the bigger picture. You see, by now, they should in theory be operating:

1 A310-300 (1 o/o)
6 A320-200
6 A321-200
5 A340-200
2 A340-300
1 A340-600 (5 o/o)
27 B737-200
6 B737-300 ("many" o/o)
6 B737-400
2 B737-500 ("many o/o)
5 B747-200
2 B747-300
2 B747-400 (2+ o/o)
12 F100
12 MD-80
...and some B717-200s too...
...and serve (internationally):

Asunción
Athens
Auckland
Beijing
Beirut
Bogotá
Cairo
Cancún
Caracas
Curitiba
Dubai
Düsseldorf
Florianópolis
Ilhéus
Lima
London-Gatwick
Los Angeles
Maceió
Madrid
Mexico City
Miami
Milan
Montevideo
Moscow
Mount Pleasant (Malvinas)
New York-JFK
Paris
Porto Alegre
Punta Arenas
Punta del Este
Rio de Janeiro
Rome
Salvador do Bahia
Santa Crúz de la Sierra
Santiago de Chile
Sao Paolo
Shanghai
Sydney
Tokyo
Tunis
...and a few more...

...or so Marsans has been promising since late-2001. "Aerolíneas Argentinas, O Linha Aérea Mais Grande Do Mundo", as the Brazilians would say!  Big thumbs up

XV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
Arcano
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RE: IB And Marsans Group - News

Sun Jun 20, 2004 4:29 am

Who doesn't love a good price war!
Actually, nobody should want price wars; although you think it's cool while it lasts, after a while the weakest airline (or the one that doesn't want to keep losing money) leaves the route, then only 1 airline survive on that route and the price is set above the competition balance.
Then, the consumer feel the company is cheating ("why I have to pay now 100 if I paid 60 last month?"). War prices are the worst way to compete, and it's used when one player wants to eliminate the other, avoiding competition and getting monopolistic profits. It's a very cheap shot, and unfortunately one of the things LA does...
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
IBERIA747
Posts: 1648
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:43 am

RE: IB And Marsans Group - News

Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:59 am

Federico and Txiki1uk:

Nice to hear from you!

As you said, one of the 747s going to Madrid had to come back to MIA 90 minutes after departure. My case was a different one...I will tell you on the report...my God!! it´s going to be the largest report ever posted on this website!! I hope you don´t get bored reading it!! Right now I´ve finished the MAD-MIA-GUA part...the GUA-MIA-MAD part is still pending and it´s the most interesting.

Saludos!
¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
 
latinaviation
Posts: 1162
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:25 pm

RE: IB And Marsans Group - News

Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:07 am

It would be interesting if IB started the non-stop service, given the recent article on Iberia in Air Transport World.

While the Miami hub has always been profitable, the situation since 9/11 has become “less favorable” he says. “Passengers now avoid going through the USA.” Also, longer-than-foreseen transit times as a result of new US customs and immigration requirements negatively affect connecting times, and thus crew and fleet productivity. “We’re not happy with a status quo,” he adds. One option being considered, he says, is to ask the US to provide “fast track treatment” for connecting passengers. Alternatively, Iberia could transfer its hub to a Central American country, “but then we lose our local Miami traffic, and this is considerable.” As a third alternative, the airline could bypass Miami and offer nonstops from Spain; however, only three of the seven cities served via MIA can support direct service, he says.
http://www.atwonline.com/current_feature.cfm
 
767-332ER
Posts: 1974
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2001 1:20 pm

RE: IB And Marsans Group - News

Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:12 am


Txiki1uk and IBERIA747, How's it going guys?!? Hope everything is well with you!!!

As for the changing of these flights to nonstops or direct, widebody flights from MAD, that will take a little bit of getting used to, extra $$$ and more aircraft. When will IB comence such flights?
Regards to all
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
 
IBERIA747
Posts: 1648
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:43 am

RE: IB And Marsans Group - News

Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:20 am

Hello 767-332ER!!!

As far as I know, nothing has been confirmed about possible direct flights to Central America, even though Iberia appears to be serious about this.

The bad part of this is that I´m not sure that such flights would be profitable...I can imagine the flights to SAL, MGA, SAP or even GUA being carried out with A340s and only a few pax on board. I hope I will not be a disaster if these flights start, but I don´t think there will be enough demand.

We´ll see what happens.

Regards,

Alfonso
¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
 
LatinPlane
Posts: 2471
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 1999 11:05 am

RE: IB And Marsans Group - News

Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:40 am

Thanks for the very interesting link LatinAviation. So only three of the seven Central American/Cancun flights hold enough traffic to justify direct service. Care to guess which ones they are?

My bet: Cancun (low yield, but the traffic is definitely there), San Jose (eco- tourism), and Ciudad de Panama. Otherwise, I just don't see Managua, San Pedro Sula, and San Salvador having enough demand. Maybe to Guatemala, the potential is there.

 Smile LatinPlane
Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
aer
Posts: 656
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:10 pm

RE: IB And Marsans Group - News

Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:49 am

Well, the thing about GUA is that the airport cannot handle any more flights (1 runway, 8 gates, terminal with 1960's arquitecture.) But if Iberia shows enough interest to set up a direct flight to Guatemala, then it would be a great incentive for the government to start building the so long awaited new airport.
nice and spacious airports in need of new airlines and flights... GUA or FRS anyone?... anyone at all?
 
aer
Posts: 656
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:10 pm

RE: IB And Marsans Group - News

Tue Jun 22, 2004 6:00 am

Although now that I remember Quito and Guayaquil airports are a little worse than GUA and they have interoceanic flights, so I guess it would be possible.
nice and spacious airports in need of new airlines and flights... GUA or FRS anyone?... anyone at all?
 
IBERIA747
Posts: 1648
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:43 am

RE: IB And Marsans Group - News

Tue Jun 22, 2004 6:36 am

About Guatemala, I´m not sure if an A340 heavily loaded (in case the demand would be high) could take off safely from that runway (2900 meters long and 1500 meters above sea level). In the case of Quito, the A340 takes off without any problem, but with low fuel as it´s only going to Guayaquil, the same thing with KLM´s MD11.
¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!

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