cx123
Posts: 683
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 8:51 pm

CX 34D

Thu Jun 17, 2004 5:38 pm

I just find out that CX is introducting the 34D configuration. They removed F Class on this airbus!

This is disappointing. I also discovered that they are using these 34D on some SYD-HKG routes and also AKL-HKG!!!

WHY?????

(Maybe because they always oversell J Class and F Class is 1/2 empty)
 
alexchao
Posts: 665
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: CX 34D

Thu Jun 17, 2004 5:47 pm

Yep. This is pretty old news.

10 aircraft are expected to be converted into the 2-class configuration. 5 have already been reconfigured.

Why? Good question. Maybe First Class just doesn't sell.
 
cx123
Posts: 683
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 8:51 pm

RE: CX 34D

Thu Jun 17, 2004 5:53 pm

Really?? I guess it must be insider news, as they never said anything to MPO members. I better tell my friend to check on his F Class booking!!!
So I guess anyone got booked on F Class before will be degraded into J??

That is a shame as that means less options for me now to travel to HKG!

I wish they bring the 744 back to SYD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
alexchao
Posts: 665
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: CX 34D

Thu Jun 17, 2004 6:07 pm

Yeah. I think its pretty bad that they don't even announce it to MPC members. Heck, CX doesn't even have the seat map up.

Certain routes are now purely Business and Economy. If they are operated by the three-class aicraft, I think MPC get assigned to the First Class seats. I think the service is same as Business? I'm not sure though.
 
cx123
Posts: 683
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 8:51 pm

RE: CX 34D

Thu Jun 17, 2004 6:13 pm

this is SHI&

It gives me less choice to goto HKG now on F Class (QF only has 1 flight with F) and now CX only has 1!

Also will they bring the 744 back to SYD. I am getting bored with the airbus and the 744 is definitely more comfortable in the premium cabins!! ( I miss the Upper Deck!!)
 
cathay250
Posts: 212
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 6:16 pm

RE: CX 34D

Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:59 pm

Well, that's pretty weired that even MEL route got 2 first class servicesdaily campare to Sydney just one!! But i guess things will change especially after the launch of HKG NYC non-stop route on July 1st, coz CX888 seems will switch to A340, so it will be interesting to see where are those extra 744 go.
 
cx123
Posts: 683
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 8:51 pm

RE: CX 34D

Thu Jun 17, 2004 8:41 pm

I think the 34D from SYD-HKG-SYD is only temporary. I check flights later on in the year and it reverts back to a 346

I know, why would you offer F Class to MEL instead of SYD!! (no Offence to our fellow Melbouners!)

I think the extra 744 will goto LHR as the pax are complaining about the 34C.

I prefer the 744 (Upper Deck New J Class) to 34C, 346 and 333 anyday!!!
 
StarG
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 9:59 pm

RE: CX 34D

Thu Jun 17, 2004 9:45 pm

If you don't mind stopping in SIN, and Star Alliance mileage, SQ still offers nice F class flights SYD-SIN-HKG.

StarG
 
cx123
Posts: 683
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 8:51 pm

RE: CX 34D

Thu Jun 17, 2004 10:28 pm

I am thinking of joining Star Alliance again (after all my status credits and miles have gone from AN!!). It is a possibility and SQ is cheaper than CX to HKG. However I prefer CX since I am a Diamons MPO and the benefits is pretty good and I am loyal to my home country!!!!hahahaha
Also CX has better routes to suit my schedule (eg. YVR/YYZ and LHR triple daily!!)

If i join Star Alliance again, i will join UA's mileage Plus (actually I am a member already, just no points!)

Another problem with SQ is that they don't offer the proper F Class ( Suites) on all their flights, whereas, if I am book on a flight on F Class on CX I am ALWAYS 100% guarantee the suite product (only 1 F Class product in CX!!)
 
PresRDC
Posts: 512
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 1999 5:00 am

RE: CX 34D

Fri Jun 18, 2004 3:15 am

Of CX's 15 A340-300s, 10 are loosing First Class. Not all routes served by A340-300s are loosing First Class.

AFAIK, the routes confirmed to be loosing F service entirely are:

Toronto
Auckland
Rome
Amsterdam

In addition, Johannesburg will loose First Class for half the year, but, in the South African Summer season, the flight will continue to operate as a three class 747-400 flight (last year, the switch occurred in late October).

The 5 remaining 3 class A340-300s will be used primarily on the HKG-YVR-JFK flight (CX 888/889) and the daylight HKG-LHR flight (and one of the evening LHR-HKG flights).

In addition to the 5 A340-300s, First Class will remain on all of CX's 747-400s, A340-600s and on some A330-300s.

Long Haul routes current getting three class service that are unlikely to be affected at all by the A340-300 reconfiguration are:

San Francisco
Los Angeles
Vancouver
New York
London
Paris
Frankfurt
Sydney (maybe some effect if extra frequencies are added)
Melbourne
Adelaide
Dubai (some frequencies)

Long haul routes already operating with two-class service:

Perth
Brisbane
Cairns
Dubai (most frequencies)
Riyadh
Bahrain
Mumbai
Delhi
Karachi

Of course, any given flight on any givne day could operate with a 34D aircraft for operational reasons, even if the flight was sold as three-class.
 
cx773
Posts: 359
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2001 12:46 pm

RE: CX 34D

Fri Jun 18, 2004 3:22 am

HKG-SYD route will be operated by A333 for both CX111 and 101 after HKG-JFK route starts.
 
cx123
Posts: 683
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 8:51 pm

RE: CX 34D

Fri Jun 18, 2004 9:17 am

Clarification:

I know that SYD-HKG-SYD are already using the 34D on Saturday/Sunday on CX100. But only for a short period of time (June-July??)

CX111 will be on 333 (Three Class)
CX100 will be on 346 for pretty much the rest of the year ( I checked my confirmed itineary last night).

But things happen so...

It is sad to see CX is departing from a all F Class routing to all Long Haul Destination. (Long Haul = > 8 hours)
But I guess people in YYZ don't really travel in high premium all the time (compared to SYD)
 
CX Flyboy
Posts: 6007
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: CX 34D

Fri Jun 18, 2004 10:50 am

The 34D is designed for the long-thin routes where first class is rarely ever filled, but where business can be filled more easily. There are bound to be some people who are unhappy, but this will make more economic sense.
 
cx123
Posts: 683
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 8:51 pm

RE: CX 34D

Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:08 pm

I guess so.....

I really hope to see a 744 in SYD!!! I really like the Upper Deck J Class.

I think MEL is having 2 333 service from now on.

When they first came out with the new J Class (on the 333) it was good, but now I experienced the 744 New J Class, I much prefer it!!!
 
cathay250
Posts: 212
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 6:16 pm

RE: CX 34D

Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:50 pm

Have checked the online downloadable timetable.

SYD should be served with 2 333 in the long term after July, and not likely to get A346 since they will all put in NYC route.

And considering the Toronto, Amsterdam, Rome and Auckland route, you really don't need First class at all, since Toronto, Amterdam and Auckland are mainly supported by HK immigrant, so i suppose not too much very premium travels there, not sure about the Rome's situtation though.
 
B-HXB
Posts: 678
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 12:04 pm

RE: CX 34D

Fri Jun 18, 2004 2:19 pm

Actually CX picks up quite a few New Zealand - Europe passengers, not just ex-HKers (although if you travelled during the southern hemisphere summer you could easily be fooled into thinking that)

It also has nothing to do with J loads since the number of J seats are remaining the same but they are putting more Y seats in. I think it is about 48 or so - every report I've read says something different but it's in the 40~50 range. And during the school holiday season this does make sense, but most of the time Y is very seldom full (for AKL at least).

I agree that the 34D configuration sucks. But for SYD passengers take heart - at least you still have F service. AKL's lost it entirely and AKL-HKG is a much longer flight than HKG-SYD!

Aside: I read in the initial announcement via the internal company newsletter that some of the A34Ds would get the new A346 Y seats (the old Y seats being taken out to be used on the other aircraft). The original no. was 4 but that was for a total 15-plane wide 34D fleet. With that being scaled down to 10 I estimate that there are around 2 34Ds with the new Y seats - anyone know which one they are? And does anyone know what order the 34Cs are being/already have been retrofitted into 34D config?


[Edited 2004-06-18 07:25:40]
 
cx123
Posts: 683
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 8:51 pm

RE: CX 34D

Fri Jun 18, 2004 3:39 pm

I am pretty sure SYD gets 1 333 and 1 34D because I called the MPO service centre up to reserve a flight from SYD-HKG-LHR(Return)
and on both CX100 and CX 101 it is 34D.

I went onto the actual ONLINE timetable and it does say 34D:
CX110 SYD 08:50 HKG 15:00 SMTWTFS 333 0 09:10 ET
CX100 SYD 16:15 HKG 22:25 SMTWTFS 346 0 09:10 ET

I think the Downloadable version is out of date.


To be honest when J Class is > 40 is start to deteriorate (in terms of service, privacy, and the overall exclusiveness!! That is why I hate the 346. But I do prefer it than the 34D and the 333


 
CX 4ever
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 3:06 pm

RE: CX 34D

Fri Jun 18, 2004 3:42 pm

You're right B-HXB,

B-HXC, B-HXF, B-HXH are the retrofitted ones that have new seats.

And as of June 17, all of them have been reconfigured except B-HXD, B-HXE, & B-HXI.

There will be no reconfiguration work done on B-HXL, B-HXM, B-HXN, B-HXO. In other words, these will be the only 4 A340-300s that still have First Class cabin in service.
 
cx123
Posts: 683
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 8:51 pm

RE: CX 34D

Fri Jun 18, 2004 3:49 pm

OMG!!!! That means the chance of getting in F class is minimal!!!

Only 4 340??

It doesn't really make sense, I mean the some of the 333 should be converted to 2 Class, but converting so many 34C to 2 Class does not make sense???

Is F Class Yield really that bad????????????

Just out of curioisty, How many J Class cabins will there be in the 34D?? Will they retain the existing F Class Partition?? ( I think highly Unlikely?) Or make it like the stupiud 346, all in ONE!.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 4870
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: CX 34D

Fri Jun 18, 2004 3:58 pm

B-HXI is surposed to stay 3 class for now aswell.

There will be no reconfiguration work done on B-HXL, B-HXM, B-HXN, B-HXO. In other words, these will be the only 4 A340-300s that still have First Class cabin in service.

These 4 aircraft begin leaving the fleet in late 2005, so the routes they will operate until then will be operated by another type once they leave the fleet.
 
SR 103
Posts: 1618
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 6:19 am

RE: CX 34D

Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:01 pm

Just out of curioisty, How many J Class cabins will there be in the 34D?? Will they retain the existing F Class Partition?? ( I think highly Unlikely?) Or make it like the stupiud 346, all in ONE!.

Here is the seatmap for you:
http://www.seatguru.com/cathay/images/Cathay_A340d.gif

SR 103
 
cathay250
Posts: 212
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 6:16 pm

RE: CX 34D

Fri Jun 18, 2004 6:15 pm

The downloadable timetable indeed the updated version!

And what it shows is in a certain date until mid of July, there will be mix of 333 and 34D, but from a certain date, (i forget that now but will post it there once i got home), which i remember should be around mid of July, it will be 2 333 flights, which actually make senses since MEL and SYD are the best market to put those 333 to. Since it has the range, the 3 class cabin, and economical. So chacnes are u will get 34D in the SYD for a while but in the future, u may only have 333s.

Online timtable actually showing EQV though.

Agreed that's a bit disappointing to elimite all the F-class on the AKL route, i think it's just not too hard for them to keep one of the daily flight with F.

Do it make sense to remove the F class?
Take the MEL route as an example, around 6200 AUSD for a F class ticket vs to 1500 AUSD for Y, then you trade off 8 f class for around 48 y seats given by B-HXM, you got a pretty good trade off from here.

And i quite believe for a conservative company like Cathay, they do it for reasons, and i believe one of them is the low yeid of F-class on those routes.
 
B-HXB
Posts: 678
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 12:04 pm

RE: CX 34D

Fri Jun 18, 2004 6:56 pm

It took them three YEARS to put the new seats in... but less than three MONTHS to take them all out.

So much for changing configurations during "regular aircraft maintenance".
 
cx123
Posts: 683
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 8:51 pm

RE: CX 34D

Sun Jun 20, 2004 7:40 pm

I know!!!

I guess do they just put these seats in storage or just scarp it???

Cathay250
They are using the 346 from SYD-HKG later this year.
 
cathay250
Posts: 212
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 6:16 pm

RE: CX 34D

Sun Jun 20, 2004 8:57 pm

I also noticed they show A346 for SYD route later this year, but it will be very interesting to see who is going to fly the NYC route, or should 2 of them are enough for the route? I guess not.

And seems each of the first class suit costed quite a lot, not make sense to scrap it but intereting to see where they are put it to, since they are limited to Airbuses only.
 
cx123
Posts: 683
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 8:51 pm

RE: CX 34D

Sun Jun 20, 2004 9:59 pm

I thought CX has 4-6 346 already??
I think that a 333 is NOT enough the serve the SYD-HKG route especially in peak season (NOV-DEC)

I think CX can sometimes use a 744 or 34C on the HKG-JFK route Non Stop.(during light season).

I spoke to a few MPO members in the Pier last month, and interestingly all of them prefer the 744 than the 346.

I think CX will replace the 34C with the 744 on HKG-LHR. IMO in the premium class, the airbus is definitely no where as comfortable when compared to a 744.
 
cathay250
Posts: 212
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 6:16 pm

RE: CX 34D

Sun Jun 20, 2004 10:25 pm

Although i also heard many people perfer 744 then Airbus in F for CX, i don't see why 744 is so much perfered then Airbus.
Reasons that i can think of is 744 provied a more privacy enivrnoment, and the 1A and 1K seat are particularly great interm of views and spaces. But except those, what are the differences? And also u got more people on 744's F-class, does it make u feel less pleasant?!

I personally perfer Airbus, coz i am either in Y or J only, and the 2-2-2 seat arrangement is definitely better then 2-3-2 on 744, imagine u need to jump over other people to get out from the seat when u are in BUSINESS CLASS!! Especailly when your neighbour is sleeping. And you got a more quiet cabin.

CX now only got 3 A346s, from B-HQA-C. I doubt they can put 744 or 34C on the NYC route as it means very heavy weight penalty, and hence profit margin could be decreased significately.
 
cx123
Posts: 683
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 8:51 pm

RE: CX 34D

Sun Jun 20, 2004 10:54 pm

I think the 744 has more advantage, even in J Class because of the upper deck. The airbus is quiter, but for some strange reason the 744 does have some unique attractiveness to it which no airbus (well until the 380 in introduced) can offer.

The HKG-JFK route demand can be affected by season. I remember the past few times I travelled on it are never full. So a 744 might be able to make it.
 
cathay250
Posts: 212
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 6:16 pm

RE: CX 34D

Mon Jun 21, 2004 12:56 am

Thx CX123

I have to agree 744 is more beautiful to look at, and i do agree people from HK (well, at least those i know) feel happier when they know they are in a 747. They call it Jumbo (even my CX FA friend), but only small number of them can actually tell the other type is Airbus! And ironically, some of them even think A330/340 are small jets, which they don't prefer. So i do agree people do have some strange perferences to 744!

But as a frequent flyer of CX airbuses, i like them, they are quiet, spacious enough for indivduals, as well as mostly newer aircraft (i fly 333 most).

Sorry have to disagree again, but the YVR-JFK has been doing increditably well, since CX has fifth right between YVR-JFK and it has been popular for years, thoughout the year! Not to mention the YVR-HKG route, which are one of the most money making route.

Another point is, 744 does not have the range to fly HKG-JFK, it wasn't designed to fly that distance, and lots of relveant issues had been discussed thoughtfully in this forum.

And what is the point of switching a bigger aircraft when there is seasonal low demand? CX won't waste its 744, as they are short of crews for the type, and they are very short of long haul aircraft, if there are any new 744 route, i rather think it will be more likely to be the triple LAX and the 2nd SFO route.
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: CX 34D

Mon Jun 21, 2004 1:01 am

The only real advantage of First Class nowadays is that you have no one sitting next to you (that is if youre flying one of the premium airlines). Food on an airplane is still just that - food on an airplane, and if you have a comfortable flat bed to sleep on and enough room to work in, the added $$$ you pay for First is just not worth it.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
cx123
Posts: 683
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 8:51 pm

RE: CX 34D

Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:22 am

Jaysit, the difference between F and J Class on CX is evident and really obvious. (I will agree with you on most US airlines)

the food is a lot better, eqv to some 5 Star Restaurant
The service is more personal and attenative.

Also the bed is heaps more comfortable than J Class. I think other than BA and VS, no other airline has introduced a good J Class product in recent years.

I know the difference in price is sometimes hard to justify (Hard for me to justify it to my boss as well!!!) I mainly used my FFP and also my status in MPO to get upgrades to F Class. I guess this is why CX is cancel the F Class service.

I mean they provide the following service and the I have guessed the following cost = attributrable to them :

Amenity Kit and PJ and Slippers = 500HKD ( I saw something similar in Shang Hai Tang costing around the same)
Duvet = 50-100HKD(Cleaning cost)
Extra FA = 3000-4000HKD (incl accom, salary, benefits etc...)
Food = 1000-1500 HKD (In terms of the caviar, wine, champange, Noritake Serveware etc..)

So on the face of my ROUGH estimate, they save around 6000HKD per F Class seat. I guess replace them with Y Class will reduce the cost by 95% and also filling the seats up = a lot more easier!!


Cathay250,

I know the HKG-YVR segment is pretty buswy, but the YVR-JFK I was told is another story by the FA. they told me it is really seasonal and sometime can be overbook by so much they have to fly people to YYZ (on CX 828) and then use AA to connect them back to JFK.
Othertimes there can be only 2 people in J Class (like what I expereienced during Low season). I guess CX always used this as a feeder route/Shuttle flight. But with HKG-JFK non-Stop things can change ( I can already picture that they will overbook the non-stop flight and ask people to travel on the 1 Stop flight)
 
Carfield
Posts: 2027
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:49 pm

RE: CX 34D

Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:34 am

Well, as a passenger, I like the Boeing 747-400, but the new Airbus A340-600s are quieter and just as good as a Boeing 747. For Y passengers, I think some of them will prefer the 2-4-2 abreast seating than the 3-4-3 abreast seating.

For the YVR to JFk route, Air Canada is the only competition with a daily A319/320... and CX provides much better service. Most importantly, the belly full of cargoes is a good profit maker for CX. Therefore, even with a light load in Y, YVR to JFK is still a profit maker.

CX F is way better than CX J... although more are good products. I think CX purposefully maintain a certain discrepancy between F and J to attract more passengers in F. For premium routes like NYC and LHR, you will be surprised on number of passengers willing to pay for F, and the RTW "A"/Discounted first class fare is also quite attractive for some passengers.

I remember reading somewhere or at other boards, this recent J product will be one of the most short-living premium products that CX will have. With the competitions these days, a new generation of F/J product will come soon.

Carfield
 
cx123
Posts: 683
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 8:51 pm

RE: CX 34D

Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:00 am

Wow Really!!! I really hope they get rid of the J class slant beds and install Proper Flat Beds in J Class.

I remembered when they first introduce it I thought "Aren't they the ones VS currently using already??"
I tried it and really hated it and I wrote a letter to the MPO service centre. I think they receive a lot of complaints when they first introduce it. They did some modifications:

-raise the seat a bit to give more support
-Decrease the Z Angle (which they claim is most preferred by customer, but IMO it is just BS to save space)
-Get rid of the changing room and replace it back with a toilet
-Refit the seats with more supportive foam/fabric.


I think CX can introduce a even better F Class by creating a more exclusive demi-cabin (like EK) and also have massage functions in the seats.
Also introduce a proper mattress (which I believe on VS have at the moment on J Class, not even EK).


You might notice that it is actually harder to get out of the seat than it used to me (when they first introduced the New J Class) the reason it because of the above modification.



 
cathay250
Posts: 212
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 6:16 pm

RE: CX34D

Mon Jun 21, 2004 1:42 pm

I also believe it makes sense that there will be another generation F/J class, or at least i think they should from the passenger view point.

While others are catching up closely, you even can have a beautiful decorated J-class seat on PIA, CX simply need to do more to differential itself, by offering more. I just hope they can offer a complete flat seat in the "current layout", then they can be the first to have such products.

And their first class product has been in the market for at least 5 years. Before Emirates, people might think that's the best a F-class can be, but after that we were all shocked by EK when we see their F class lay out right?
 
cx123
Posts: 683
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 8:51 pm

RE: CX 34D

Mon Jun 21, 2004 2:06 pm

Actually SAA introduced a Complete FLAT seat that is forward facing and NON Angled (VS new Upper Suite = Angled Away from the window)
But never heard any reviews about this???

Has anyone tried it? I went on their homepage and NO info?? Maybe it was scarped??

Actually the EK F Class is NOT that revoultionary if you think about it.

The layout is still 1-2-1 (same as CX)

It maybe slightly longer and with the actual semi Suite Doors.

However it is still a seat converting into a bed.
Don't think it has surpassed the 100 inch pitch yet.

What I think will be interesting is to offer ACTUAL sleeping cabins for the pax! (eg. in the lower deck on a 346 as Airbus originally proposed).


I think all CX have to do in order to minimise cost is to make the current Slant Beds = Flat. I spoke to a F/A and also a F/E on CX and they said, they did test those slant beds by making it level out a bit, but however except on the Emergency row in the upper deck, in all other rows, the window Pax find it difficult to get out.

Therefore the solution is to remove 1 more row????

I am sure the existing mechanism can allow the bed to be fully flat (maybe just some slight reinforcement on the legrest and adjustments. That way they can still keep the existing seats without large capital outlay.

Any other ideas???