Skyteam10001
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AF/QF To Codeshare On Paris / Australia Routes

Fri Jun 18, 2004 8:45 pm

(First of all this is my first post on a.net !!!)
Just read this on radiocockpit (French info site on aviation)

http://www.radiocockpit.com

according to the site AF will place its code on some Qantas flights beyond Singapore to Australia, starting Oct 31.

I am not sure I understand this move when MAS is *rumored* to join Skyteam at some point. Even if Malaysian doesn't join SkyTeam, i though AF could take advantage of the relationship they (Malaysian) have with KLM and put their codes on Malaysian flights to Australia beyond Kuala Lumpur. It seems a weird move from AF to codeshare with QF.

What do you guys think ?

(edited to update topic info)

[Edited 2004-06-18 13:58:31]
 
Skyteam10001
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RE: AF/QF To Codeshare To OZ Beyond Singapore

Fri Jun 18, 2004 8:49 pm

actually re-reading the news piece, one could understand (although it is not very clear) that AF would do the CDG-SIN leg on its own metal with QF putting its code on the flight (ie not operating anymore the CDG-SIN leg), which to me is even bigger news...
 
777ER
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RE: AF/QF To Codeshare To OZ Beyond Singapore

Fri Jun 18, 2004 8:51 pm

Well first of all welcome Skyteam10001 to a.net. BEWARE this place can get very addictive.
QF is a member of oneworld.
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Skyteam10001
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RE: AF/QF To Codeshare To OZ Beyond Singapore

Fri Jun 18, 2004 8:56 pm

Thanks 777ER. I have been reading a.net for quite some time but this morning I saw no one had posted that AF/QF news so I thought I'd fork out the registration fee and post my first bit on the forum.

Does anyone know which non-oneworld or which skyteam/star airline QF codeshares with at the moment ? I know about SA...

what is the oneworld policy for codesharing with airlines of other alliances ?

can someone please shed light on this. thx
 
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VirginFlyer
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RE: AF/QF To Codeshare On Paris / Australia Routes

Fri Jun 18, 2004 10:03 pm

You can have a look here for Qantas's Frequent Flier programme partners - as you can see, it includes a couple of Star Airlines (US Airways and SAS), among others.

As for codeshares, looking at a recent issue (April) of Qantas's inflight magazine, Qantas has codeshares with the following airlines on the following routes:

British Airways (London to a number of European destinations, BHX/MAN to CDG/F R A)
Finnair (SIN/BKK-HEL)
South African Airlines (PER-JNB)
Cathay Pacific (HKG-FCO)
Swiss (F R A-ZRH)
Gulf Air (BAH-ATH/BEY/DXB/SIN)
Asiana (SYD-ICN)
Japan Airlines (SYD-KIX, BNE-NRT/KIX)
Vietnam Airlines (MEL/SYD-SGN)
EVA Air (SYD-TPE)
China Eastern (SYD/MEL-PVG)
Air Vanuatu (SYD/BNE-VLI)
Air Niugini (BNE/CNS-POM, SYD-BNE)
Air Pacific (MEL/SYD/BNE/AKL-NAN, SYD-SUV, NAN-HNL/LAX)
Polynesian Airlines (SYD/AKL-APW)
Air Tahiti Nui (AKL-PPT, PPT-LAX)
Aircalin (SYD/BNE-NOU)
American Airlines (plenty of US destinations)
Alaska Airlines (LAX-YYC/PDX/SEA/YVR)
Lan Chile (SYD-AKL-SCL)

Hope this helps,

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
Eirules
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RE: AF/QF To Codeshare On Paris / Australia Routes

Fri Jun 18, 2004 10:44 pm

OneWorld dont really seem to have much of a policy on codesharing with airlines from other alliances. QF does it with loads of other airlines including Asiana and South African which are both part of Star. Aer Lingus also codeshares with KLM which is not part of OneWorld and Im pretty sure LAN used to codeshare with Aerolineas Argentinas to Buenos Aires . AA also codeshares with Mexicana. QF giving up CDG-SIN would surprise me, they direct a lot of European traffic through CDG as well as Frankfurt.

[Edited 2004-06-18 15:59:58]
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nickofatlanta
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RE: AF/QF To Codeshare On Paris / Australia Routes

Fri Jun 18, 2004 10:53 pm

EIRules:
- LanChile is the market leader on the SCL-EZE route and does not code-share with Aerolineas.
- Mexicana does code-share with AA but Mexicana is no longer part of Star Alliance.
 
Eirules
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RE: AF/QF To Codeshare On Paris / Australia Routes

Fri Jun 18, 2004 10:59 pm

Oh I do apologize, LAN used to codehare with Aerolineas coz I flew the route once. I have edited accordingly!!
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
Econojetter
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RE: AF/QF To Codeshare On Paris / Australia Routes

Fri Jun 18, 2004 11:02 pm

There are things that are beyond the control of global alliances. Bilateral agreements between countries, for instance. I looked at Virginflyer's list and wondered, if QF was looking to withdraw its own services from CDG, why not codeshare on CX? One reason is perhaps that QF has 5th freedom SIN-CDG and not on HKG-CDG. That allows QF to sell SIN-CDG independently and not just as an extension of a journey originating in Australia.

I also recall that within the last year or so, the France-Singapore bilateral was updated to allow more capacity, and there was also talk of some SQ/AF cooperation. Can someone tell us more about that? Does AF have 5th freedom for SIN-Australia?
 
parisien
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RE: AF/QF To Codeshare On Paris / Australia Routes

Sat Jun 19, 2004 2:15 am

is the codeshare to complete the thrice weekly services of QF ? I hope that QF is not going to pull out completely from CDG. I read on the commercial aviation today that QF cannot increase frequency because of bilateral agreement between australie and france....so this might be a way to increase frequency, ie via codeshare. it allows QF frequent flyers to earn miles on AF codeshared flights when they want to go to paris.
 
TBCITDG
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RE: AF/QF To Codeshare On Paris / Australia Routes

Sat Jun 19, 2004 2:24 am

A little bird told me that QF would withdrawal as of October, just a rumour though. So maybe AF will in fact serve CDG-SIN and QF to SYD.
 
Britair
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RE: AF/QF To Codeshare On Paris / Australia Routes

Sat Jun 19, 2004 3:15 am

I was sent a news release today from QF Corporate Sales (sorry I'm at home now).... it stated that QF will withdraw its own flights from Paris and use the aircraft for the new London frequencies. QF will therefor codeshare with AF on SIN-CDG using AF metal. It did state that services to Frankfurt are unaffected. Sorry Paris, no more QF  Sad
 
parisien
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RE: AF/QF To Codeshare On Paris / Australia Routes

Sat Jun 19, 2004 3:35 am

oh no, I would miss seeing the QF plane in CDG. So do they only now serve AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA and LHR ? The Rome service is also codeshared with CX no ?
 
Skyteam10001
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RE: AF/QF To Codeshare On Paris / Australia Routes

Sat Jun 19, 2004 4:26 am

the good news is that we will be able to accrue frequence+ miles to Australia now (without going through Seoul on Korean which is really not the most direct way to go...)

I still wonder how that is going to affect the Malaysian Skyteam rumours as well as the possible use of Kuala Lupmpur as a Skyteam hub to Australia....

time will tell I guess

[Edited 2004-06-18 21:31:20]
 
sebwhite
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RE: AF/QF To Codeshare On Paris / Australia Routes

Sat Jun 19, 2004 5:47 am

Les compagnies AF et Qantas ont signé un accord de partages de codes qui sera effectif à compter du 31 octobre.

Concrètement, une liaison entre Paris et l'Australie (et vice-versa) sera décomposée en deux temps: le vol France-Singapour sera opéré par Air France et le vol Singapour-Australie sera effectué par Qantas vers les villes de Adelaide, Brisbane, Darwin, Melbourne, Perth ou Sydney.

My translation:

AF & Qantas have signed a code-sharing agreement effective as of October 31.

A connection between Paris and Australia (and vice versa)
will be broken up into two parts: the flight France-Singapore will be
operated by Air France and the flight Singapore-Australia will be
done by Qantas to the towns of Adelaide, Brisbane,
Darwin, Melbourne, Perth or Sydney.
 
QANTASpower
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RE: AF/QF To Codeshare On Paris / Australia Routes

Sat Jun 19, 2004 7:08 am

How sad ... now QF has only 2 European destinations ... London and Frankfurt.
 
Horus
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RE: AF/QF To Codeshare On Paris / Australia Routes

Sat Jun 19, 2004 7:14 am

Britair, was it a reliable source?
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
QANTASpower
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RE: AF/QF To Codeshare On Paris / Australia Routes

Sat Jun 19, 2004 7:34 am

Looks like in about 18 months QF will have 5 flights a day into LHR and 1 daily into Frankfurt.

They are adopting a similar stategy to LAX where they concentrate all there resources on the one hub for the USA.

I guess it is a sign of the times and if the return is not there they will leave.






 
flylondon
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RE: AF/QF To Codeshare On Paris / Australia Routes

Sat Jun 19, 2004 8:12 am

Does this mean that you could fly on a QF code but BA metal SYD-SIN and then on a QF code but AF metal SIN-CDG?
 
parisien
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RE: AF/QF To Codeshare On Paris / Australia Routes

Sat Jun 19, 2004 8:22 am

hm yeah I guess you could fly Australia Paris without even being on a QF plane !
So why dont they do the same with Ba to LHR ? QF planes to SIN or BKK and BA from there to LHR carrying QF codes ?
 
nickofatlanta
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RE: AF/QF To Codeshare On Paris / Australia Routes

Sat Jun 19, 2004 9:51 am

Probably because QF is able to offer multiple daily flights into LHR and thus it can attract the high-yield business traveller who usually demands the flexibility of daily flights. As noted above, QF was not allowed to have daily flights into CDG.
 
Lufthansa
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RE: AF/QF To Codeshare On Paris / Australia Routes

Sat Jun 19, 2004 1:17 pm

I think there are probably two main reasons for this.

1 - lack of Business traffic. Australia has much stronger relations with northern european countries than southern europe, in terms of business traffic. Although there are huge greek and italian populations in Melbourne particularly, the nature of business in Australia, they are more likely to do business with their historical partners in the UK and also, with the long established links in Germany. Germany really has always been there because they've often been the ones with the best technology, so it has been pretty hard to avoid them.

Southern Europe, however, is mainly a tourist destination. Not too many full fare economy passengers, and certainly it is going to be very hard for them to charge their business and first class tickets, which are some of the most expensive in the world.

2 - They should have kept Rome. Paris could have been better served via a codeshare with Alitalia from Rome, or possibly even a triangle flight. But the problem remains, Filling up a 747-400 is going to be tough.

Qantas really needs to admit defeat in this department and buy some A340s or 777s for these kinds of flights. Still, they have probably looked at the returns and, for a company that really hasn't had a big interest in economy class passengers, decided it is not worth it. I mean it is only recently they've got their long haul economy up to the standard of their chief competitors on these routes. That and the Arrival of the A380 means LHR is going to be the name of the game. The trouble is, LHR is badly located for hubbing within europe. They really need something on the other side of europe or at least in the Middle... hence why I suggested Alitalia earlier. It's on the way.. no backtracking.
 
TexAussie
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RE: AF/QF To Codeshare On Paris / Australia Routes

Sat Jun 19, 2004 4:25 pm

Qantas' Heathrow offering is now stronger than ever -- planes leaving morning, afternoon and evening via Sin, BKK and soon HKG, all with the luxurious SkyBed. I love flat bed Club World, but the SkyBed is nicer in my opinion. Now QF will get more of the market that avoided their metal for BA (I have flown QF flt 3xx's on BA to get the flat bed and know lots who do the same) -- now the SkyBed is finally here and on all the LHR flights.

I agree with the backtracking bit and that QF could really use the A345, 777LR or 7E7 for non-core routes to Europe. If I have to go to CDG, I would still fly QF to LHR and then BA to CDG. The AF 777ER's I've been on had old Pan Am looking interiors and the IFE was poor. It's been a couple years since I have switched from SkyTeam to OneWorld for my business travel (as SKyTeam only flies to Australia from Seoul).

I would like to see MAS join Sky Team, that would give the alliance hubs in the corners of Asia.

With all due respect to SkyTeam, OneWorld and Star Alliance have far superior global networks and premium services. Sky Team has limited spheres of influence and lesser-standard first/business class products. (Yes, DL has the nicest of the old generation business seat but those are mediocre by comparison with shell seats and lie-flat beds).
 
MAS777
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RE: AF/QF To Codeshare On Paris / Australia Routes

Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:29 am

Air France currently places its codes on KLM flights into Malaysia from Amsterdam but the bilateral agreement between France and Malaysia is constantly being argued over so perhaps this could be an interim measure on Air France's part until Malaysia and France renegotiate the Air Services Agreement between the two countries as Malaysia Airlines seems to be edging ever closer into Skyteam. At the moment, even Air France and Malaysia Airlines can't seem to agree on code-sharing on the Paris-KL flights operated by MAS (which is a huge cashcow for MAS).

Malaysia Airlines meanwhile has confirmed plans to increase flights into Paris after years of restricted access by the French Authorities. On Air France's part, they made quite an effort at the last MATTA (Malaysian Assoc of Tourism & Travel Agents) fair in Kuala Lumpur which started everyone's tongues wagging about MAS and Skyteam and AF's possibility of reentering the Malaysian market.
 
QF744
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RE: AF/QF To Codeshare On Paris / Australia Routes

Mon Jun 21, 2004 8:29 am

Guys,

Here is the official press release from QF...

It's a sad day for me as I have personally flown QF to CDG several times - i was hoping to fly them SYD-SIN-CDG in December, but no more now  Sad

QF744


SYDNEY, 18 June 2004: Qantas said today it would expand its European operations from 31 October by introducing daily codeshare services with Air France to Paris via Singapore and increasing services to London from 21 to 27 per week.

The Executive General Manager of Qantas Airlines, John Borghetti, said Qantas was very pleased to enter its first codeshare relationship with Air France.

“Qantas is restricted to operating only three flights to Paris a week under the bilateral agreement between Australia and France,” Mr Borghetti said.

“This limited schedule has made it difficult to achieve profitability on the route and the losses we are incurring are simply not sustainable.

“The new relationship with Air France will allow us to offer daily codeshare services from Australia to Paris and therefore greater choice and flexibility for both business and leisure customers.

“Qantas Frequent Flyer members will be able to earn points on all codeshare flights to Paris, including the new Air France flights.”

Mr Borghetti said customers would fly on Qantas services between Australia and Singapore and then connect to Air France flights between Singapore and Paris’ Charles de Gaulle Airport.

The Qantas Group will operate 52 services each week between Australia and Singapore – 45 Qantas flights from Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth, Adelaide and Darwin and seven Australian Airlines flights from Cairns and Sydney to Singapore.

Mr Borghetti said Qantas would also, subject to approval by the International Air Services Commission, increase services to London from 21 to 27 per week with three new Perth-Singapore-London flights and three new Sydney-Hong Kong-London services.

“These additional services will utilise new landing and take-off slots at Heathrow that we purchased earlier this year,” Mr Borghetti said.

“Under the new schedule, Qantas will operate 17 services to London via Singapore, seven via Bangkok and three via Hong Kong.

“Together with the new services to Mumbai and Shanghai that will begin later this year, Qantas is growing its international operations.”

Mr Borghetti said Qantas would continue to operate daily flights to Frankfurt via Singapore.
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