planemaker
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Boeing & Airbus Reject BBD On Ncap

Sat Jun 19, 2004 5:34 am

Looks like Mr. Scott asked his old employer if they were interested... and Airbus, too!!

June 17 (Bloomberg) -- Boeing Co., the world's second-biggest maker of commercial airplanes, doesn't plan to invest in a new 110- to 150-seat jetliner that Bombardier Inc. may develop, said Alan Mulally, president of Boeing's commercial-aircraft business.

Gary Scott, a former Boeing official who joined Bombardier, said he has talked with aerospace companies such as Boeing and Airbus SAS about possibly contributing part of the plane's $2 billion in development costs.


http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000082&sid=aWcPh8NyYkwI&refer=canada
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
Vorticity
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RE: Boeing & Airbus Reject BBD On Ncap

Sat Jun 19, 2004 5:36 am

Doesn't surprise me that Boeing would turn them down. That size regional jet starts eating into the 717 and 737 sales.
Thermodynamics and english units don't mix...
 
planemaker
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RE: Boeing & Airbus Reject BBD On Ncap

Sat Jun 19, 2004 5:41 am

Vorticity, FYI, both pax sizes of the NCAP will have full coast-to-coast range... when is a jet not a regional jet?  Big grin
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
Vorticity
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RE: Boeing & Airbus Reject BBD On Ncap

Sat Jun 19, 2004 5:48 am

The regional jet defenition is getting to be kinda hazy. There are some pretty long regional jet flights from CO Express and American Eagle from IAH and DFW respectively.

Anyway  Smile The point however is that the capacity it offers cuts into 717 and 737. Is there a market for that capacity coupled with that range? 736 sales haven't been great, same for 318s. (To answer my question, maybe if they can make it cheaper to operate  Smile )

[Edited 2004-06-18 22:53:53]
Thermodynamics and english units don't mix...
 
planemaker
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RE: Boeing & Airbus Reject BBD On Ncap

Sat Jun 19, 2004 6:05 am

As you said, the definition of a regional jet is fuzzy. Is it range? Is it pax size? Is it comfort? With the 135-seat NCAP BBD covers them all... transcon range, 5-abreast seating with 21" seat width, larger windows and taller aisle - more comfort than the 737/757 and A320.

Who really knows at this point if BBD can deliver on what they say???? Funding is the critical issue - even if they build a business case for launch based on market size.

So far... BBD has said that the NCAP will be cheaper to purchase and will have 15-20% lower operating costs. They have also said that they are targetting NWA (surprise). They have also talked to all the LCCs. Anyhow, decision to launch is not till next year and EIS would be 5 years later.

[Edited 2004-06-18 23:08:57]
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
Greg
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RE: Boeing & Airbus Reject BBD On Ncap

Sat Jun 19, 2004 6:23 am

Planemaker....is their a rendering somewhere?
btw...big surprise from Boeing and Airbus...was it a publicity stunt?
 
Guest

RE: Boeing & Airbus Reject BBD On Ncap

Sat Jun 19, 2004 6:48 am

5-abreast seating with 21" seat width, larger windows and taller aisle - more comfort than the 737/757 and A320.

Now if they could make a 40/60/80 seater with that kind of comfort...

4-abreast seating with 18.5" seat width, larger windows and taller aisle - more comfort than the 737/757 and A320.
 
planemaker
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RE: Boeing & Airbus Reject BBD On Ncap

Sat Jun 19, 2004 6:52 am

Greg, sorry, no image available yet. Boeing and Airbus was not a publicity stunt... Tellier is extremely desperate to get the NCAP going but at the smallest possible exposure to BBD. If B or A had jumped on board, BBD's shares would have taken off. BBD only wants to put up a third of the development funds and right now BBD is playing the Canadian and Quebec Governments off against the British Government. If the Brits put up their share of the money, BBD will assemble the NCAP in N. Ireland. The rest would come from risk-sharing partners.

BTW, I read a headline somewhere yesterday about "D'Long remaining quiet on rumours of bankruptcy of the FD728 unit". If I find it I will post the info.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
gigneil
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RE: Boeing & Airbus Reject BBD On Ncap

Sat Jun 19, 2004 7:16 am

Doesn't surprise me that Boeing would turn them down. That size regional jet starts eating into the 717 and 737 sales.

Boeing turned them down because they have a similar product in their investment portfolio - the RRJ.

N
 
planemaker
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RE: Boeing & Airbus Reject BBD On Ncap

Sat Jun 19, 2004 8:29 pm

"Boeing turned them down because they have a similar product in their investment portfolio - the RRJ."

The RRJ is not even remotely similar to the NCAP as the RRJ is a 60- to 90-seater with less capability.


Greg, here is an extract from ATI about D'Long:

D’Long Europe is refusing to comment on reports that Fairchild Dornier Aeroindustries – the company created to take over development of the Fairchild Dornier 728 regional jet – has filed for bankruptcy.

A spokeswoman for the Munich-based unit of D’Long International Strategic Investment of China says the company is aware of the reports, initially in Financial Times Deutschland and repeated elsewhere, but is “not commenting”.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
Greg
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RE: Boeing & Airbus Reject BBD On Ncap

Sun Jun 20, 2004 11:47 am

Pity..not even a noble attempt to get it goint (728). Still can sell..but where is the market, right?

Hopefully, the NCAP will be a bit more thought out--althought I can already see the clash with Canadian backs loans and Import/Export Bank complaints (yep...these will come from Brazil, France, and the US!)

Thanks for the update.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Boeing & Airbus Reject BBD On Ncap

Sun Jun 20, 2004 11:51 am

You want to hear a crappy long flight on a RJ? Try UAX RDU-DEN! 4 hours in a CRJ700? Good grief.. that's just plain torture! UAL really doesn't like RDU at all! LOL... I like Delta's plan.. no RJ over 2 or 2.5 hours (can't rememember which). That's a plenty of time to be in a RJ.
Aiming High and going far..
 
m404
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RE: Boeing & Airbus Reject BBD On Ncap

Sun Jun 20, 2004 5:32 pm

When is a jet a regional? - anytime it's being flown by cheaper than mainline crew.
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding