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ERJ170
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Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:54 am

Does anyone know which destinations are likely to see the B6 EMB190's? Are there any confirmed destinations for the B6 190's? Will they be based out of JFK, OAK, BOS, or elsewhere?

BTW.. if anyone knows if RDU is on that list.. I would be too estatic!
Aiming High and going far..
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:19 am

There are A LOT of destinations that the E190's will serve, and RDU is definitely one. They will be based out of JFK and I'm sure BOS will see some routes with the E190's.

BTW, there are litterally dozens of other threads on this exact same topic. Try the search and you'll find A LOT of info on this.

JetBluefan1
 
Sinlock
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:00 am

I look forward to the fact that firdt pictures will be taken at FLL on it's delivery flight. A friend tild me that he saw the 190 proto at FLL two weeks ago, saddly I missed it.
 
JET1977
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:06 am

If JBU ( ICAO Identifier for Jet Blue) end up going to PHL.... that will be music to my ears. I am based out in the Bay area for my job, but go back east at 4 times a year. I normally like to fly on UAL, but I can usally get a good price on DAL from SFO-JFK(normally a B762) then JFK-PHL ( CRJ). JBU Rocks and I would some direct TV on the 5 hour Transcon.
 
luv2fly
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:21 am

The truth is everything said so far concerning the 190's is just a guess.... B6 like any airline is not going to announce any new destination before it has that destination ready to go, as to not let other airlines get in there first.....
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:31 am

Very true, Luv2fly...

But as with every well kept secret, the truth is always likely to be known before the official announcement..

Just wondering the type of market the 190 would be used in.. I have heard the JFK-Alb would be 190.. but does that mean it would no longer be the A320? Are they looking into entering odd markets or are they gonna be filling in the gaps on their route.. That kinda stuff I want to know.
Aiming High and going far..
 
planemaker
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:46 am

The following list doesn't give any time frame nor aircraft specifics but at least it narrows destinations down... to a few dozen -- and RDU is on the list!  Big grin

JetBlue Prepares for Expansion

In an investment community presentation Wednesday, JetBlue CEO David Neelman released a map that showed some of the markets the airline is considering for future expansion in Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean, and all over the U.S., but in particular the Midwest and Northeast over the next few years.

Possible future destinations include:

Albuquerque, N.M.
Austin,
Bermuda
Calgary
Cancun
Charlotte
Chicago
Cincinnati
Cleveland
Columbus, Ohio
Dallas/Fort Worth
Detroit
Greensburg, S.C.
Halifax
Indianapolis
Jacksonville, Fla.
Kansas City
Louisville, Ky.
Memphis
Milwaukee
Minneapolis
Montréal
Nashville
Nassau
Norfolk, Va.
Pittsburgh
Philadelphia
Phoenix
Portland, Me.
Portland, Ore.
Raleigh/Durham
Reno
Richmond, Va.
San Antonio
St. Louis
Toronto
Tucson
Vancouver

Extract from Commercial Aviation Today

Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:46 am

Odd that Omaha isn't on there. I could swear that OMA has been talked about. We have one helluva business presence.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
ouboy79
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:02 am

I would expect to see TOL on there. Talk that I'm hearing right now is that Delta is backing out of the $2 million finance package to begin service to JFK from TOL. They were only going to do 1 lousy CRJ (last year they were going to do 3 CRJs for $900k). JetBlue was listed in the SCASDP filing and with TOL being such a close nit facility, it doesn't take long for something to spread once a Port employee slips. So we shall see.
 
miaskies
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:05 am

Not sure if the runway length is adequate for an EMB190 at this particular airport. That I know of, the largest plane that takes off from EYW is a CRJ700 and that is with restrictions. But it would be a nice getaway destination for New Yorkers! So my call would be JFK-EYW - 2x weekly. A little Caribbean taste just south of Florida a little over 3+ hours and the capacity of the airplane is just right for this route.

Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:10 am

Is Greensburg, SC supposed to be Greenville/Spartanburg, SC? Pretty good list too.. loks like they are gonna be covering some good locations... and of course, I am excited RDU is on the list!
Aiming High and going far..
 
EMBQA
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:23 am

Planemaker-

That looks like the same list I saw several years ago when JetBlue made their first 'Start-up' proposal.....So I'd put some weight on those as being in the works....!!
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
ont 737
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:34 am

We have a long list of cities that are very ripe for some low fare service from New York. Below are some cities listed with their average fare along with that cost per mile. Looks like there is alot of money to be made out there.
Richmond, VA $243 $0.83/mile
Norfolk, VA $202 $0.68/mile
Portland, ME $194 $0.49/mile
Pittsburg, PA $246 $0.72/mile
Cleveland, OH $274 $0.66/mile
Raleigh/Durham $190 $0.44/mile
Columbus, OH $227 $0.47/mile
Greensboro, NC $161 $0.35/mile
Charlotte, NC $300 $0.55/mile
Detroit, MI $152 $0.33/mile
Greenville, SC $235 $0.38/mile
Knoxville, TN $210 $0.32/mile
Columbia, SC $206 $0.33/mile
Charleston, SC $185 $0.29/mile
Louisville, KY $246 $0.37/mile
Indianapolis, IN $175 $0.26/mile
Chicago, IL $188 $0.25/mile
Milwaukee, WI $170 $0.23/mile
Nashville, TN $222 $0.29/mile
Jacksonville, FL $165 $0.19/mile
Birmingham, AL $239 $0.27/mile
St. Louis, MO $201 $0.22/mile
Memphis, TN $217 $0.22/mile
Minneapolis, MN $284 $0.27/mile
Dallas, TX $282 $0.20/mile
Houston, TX $307 $0.21/mile
Austin, TX $314 $0.21/mile
San Antonio, TX $288 $0.18/mile
Albuquerque, MN $220 $0.12/mile
Phoenix, AZ $215 $0.10/mile
Los Angeles (LAX) $314 $0.12/mile
 
JBLUA320
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:58 am

Pittsburg, PA $246 $0.72/mile

Who came up with those figures? $246 is the AVERAGE?! That to me is a SALE! NYC-PIT is terribly expensive!

JBLU
 
dcflyer9
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Mon Jun 21, 2004 12:16 pm


Looking at these #'s and considering that Jetblue has stated that their CASM is about 1 cent more for the e190's as compared to the Airbuses doesnt it look like Jetblue is goint to make a killing on these routes?
 
planemaker
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Mon Jun 21, 2004 12:17 pm

I posted this in another thread but I will repeat it here because I think that it really is unique... all of the B6's E190s will have both pilot and co-pilot HUDS.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Mon Jun 21, 2004 12:23 pm

Dcflyer9.. in one word, yes. The RDU-NY Area prices are horrid! And RDU is KNOWN for having low fares. but the RDU-JFK, RDU-LGA, and RDU-EWR run in the high 190/low 200 range... It's about the same price to fly to LAX, SFO, and SAN.. (~$203 r/t)!
Aiming High and going far..
 
MAH4546
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Mon Jun 21, 2004 12:34 pm

And RDU is KNOWN for having low fares. but the RDU-JFK, RDU-LGA, and RDU-EWR run in the high 190/low 200 range...

Are you kidding? That is not horrid. That is an excellent price. That's about as good a fare you can get on MIA-NYC during most times of the year (14-day advance on AA for MIA-LGA is 220$).
a.
 
scottysair
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Mon Jun 21, 2004 12:34 pm

Which one of those new destination cities will begin for next year in 2005 with EMB-190.
 
planemaker
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Mon Jun 21, 2004 12:44 pm

Jetblue's E190 break even LF is suppose to be only 65%.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
scottysair
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Mon Jun 21, 2004 1:18 pm

Is that still anything else about more new service this fall with 2004? How about even want come to PHX very soon? How come?
 
ont 737
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Mon Jun 21, 2004 1:20 pm

I should have made it more clear in my earlier post. Those fares listed are the average *one way* fares posted from the most recent period listed. (3Q 2003)
 
scottysair
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Mon Jun 21, 2004 1:27 pm

All I can tell you something about California cities and it is already served out of JFK to LGB, SAN, ONT, OAK, SJC & SMF. Either way jetblue will make more new cities out of california and there is some more room in OAK. Maybe will flying to PHX, LAS, SLC, FLL, MCO, TPA.
 
JFKviaPHX
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Mon Jun 21, 2004 1:49 pm

I hope SWF. It would be a great New York State stop. Granted it's only 72 miles from JFK, but you try and get to JFK during the day. I made the commute everyday for 2 years at 1 hour and 20 mins average each way. BTW that was at 3:30 am to and 1:30 pm from. If you have a 10 am flight out of JFK you will need to leave by 6am and take back roads to make the flight on-time.
 
kfllspotter
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:21 pm

Anyone have details on the delivery flight to FLL? I'd like to be there to photograph the event. Any info is greatly appreciated!
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:24 pm

Are you kidding? That is not horrid. That is an excellent price. That's about as good a fare you can get on MIA-NYC during most times of the year (14-day advance on AA for MIA-LGA is 220$).

MAH4546, RDU is about half the distance from NYC as MIA and the price is about the same. You do the math. Those prices are hgigh considering the length of the flight. Some lower fares are in order. A trip to NYC should be ~$120-$140 r/t, not almost $200.. especially considering the traffic that goes RDU-NYC-RDU.
Aiming High and going far..
 
nucsh
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Mon Jun 21, 2004 8:14 pm

Im just happy Charlotte is on the list. Of course, i've known this for about a year now (it pays to be friends with a pilot and a PR representitive).

I will definately fly B6 when they come to Charlotte. I love USAIrways, dont get me wrong, but sometimes it just costs too much.
If landing is about "kissing" the ground, you just about raped it.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Mon Jun 21, 2004 8:47 pm

Will this be over a 1 year timeframe? 5 year? any ideas?
Aiming High and going far..
 
erikwilliam
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:37 pm

Hey guys, nice post on B6 and the EMB-190, but I do have a question:
How does it works for B6 to get license to operate in all the 30something cities??
I do know that here in Brasil U have to prove economical viability to operate new routes.
Is there a chance that they open all these new cities at once, in maybe a HUGE strike on other competitiors.
As I know B6 is the only buyer of EMB-190´s, so all the production will go to them next year, that means some 40-50 jets.

Thx guys!
Dida, Cafu, Lucio, Roque Junior, Roberto Carlo, Emerson, Ze Roberto, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Robinho, Ronaldo
 
planemaker
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:48 pm

7 E190s will go into service by the end of next year and 25 more during 2006. All 100 aircraft will be in service by 2011. Coupled with the A320 deiveries, that is a lot of aircraft to put into service!
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
erikwilliam
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Tue Jun 22, 2004 12:08 am

Exactly PlaneMaker, isn´t a bit too much, I mean, we aren´t in the best of times for economics, oil, war, terrorism...
On the other hand my grandpa always told me:" there´s always going to have a crisis, and there´s always someone doing well in it, just be this someone..."

Coming from a man, who came from Syria in 1952 to Brazil with only US$300,00 in the pocket and has built a litle fortune....

Thx anyway.
Dida, Cafu, Lucio, Roque Junior, Roberto Carlo, Emerson, Ze Roberto, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Robinho, Ronaldo
 
usatoeze
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Tue Jun 22, 2004 12:09 am

How does it works for B6 to get license to operate in all the 30something cities??
I do know that here in Brasil U have to prove economical viability to operate new routes.


Unless the airport is slot restricted(Landing and takeoff slots are limited) most destinations are open to any licensed air carrier. Before deregulation occured starting in the late 1970s going to the early 1980s it was very different.
War is a very poor political tool
 
desertjets
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Tue Jun 22, 2004 12:23 am

I am willing to bet money, about 3 dollars, that among the first cities that JetBlue serves with the E190, will be Albany, NY. From an economic and a political standpoint, it is a must fly route.

The big question is, over the next 2-3 years, is where the bulk of these planes will be based from.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Tue Jun 22, 2004 12:34 am

"The big question is, over the next 2-3 years, is where the bulk of these planes will be based from"

They should just swoop in and take over some place like STL. Can you imagine what they could do with a fleet of 190s based in the middle of the country? From the coast to the Rockies would all be fair game. It would be a slap in the face to the CVG gang.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
planemaker
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Tue Jun 22, 2004 12:43 am

InnocuousFox -- very, very interesting idea. What you propose potentially could wipe out many of the spokes in legacy hubs.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Tue Jun 22, 2004 1:53 am

InnocuousFox -- very, very interesting idea. What you propose potentially could wipe out many of the spokes in legacy hubs.

Indeed. Of more interest, this could be where the WN vs. B6 showdown takes place. WN serves 21 cities directly from STL and virtually their entire network via one-stop connections. The E190 can literally serve all of North America, outside of Alasksa, from STL. Their smaller size would open up a plethora of possible routes.
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Tue Jun 22, 2004 1:57 am

STL has the excess capacity as well.

By the way, I would really only see them running shorter routes from there... pretty much the central US over to about DEN. It would be a far more efficient use of the smaller aircraft. If they wanted to toss in some 320s at STL, that's fine.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
scottysair
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Tue Jun 22, 2004 1:59 am

I am sure about B6 will make more new cities next year in 2005 and either way will make choice of those Airbus or Embraer.
 
LambertMan
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Tue Jun 22, 2004 2:09 am

I would like to see something like what fox has hypothetically suggested, but I highly doubt it will ever happen. By the time that B6 will enter St Louis Airtran more than likely will already be here, add in the possible expansion of Frontiers operations, Southwests, and AA's and that leaves very little to be had out of STL. AA just added a little more with extra freq. to ATL, MKE, SGF, PIA, and SPI. In all probability we won't see more than a couple daily E190's to JFK and BOS.

I will agree in saying that I am surprised that OMA wasn't on that expansion list. I would think there would be no problem filling the seats with a couple daily E190's.
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Tue Jun 22, 2004 2:13 am

"By the time that B6 will enter St Louis Airtran more than likely will already be here"

Which I predicted against a lot of complaints!  Smile)

"I will agree in saying that I am surprised that OMA wasn't on that expansion list. I would think there would be no problem filling the seats with a couple daily E190's."

Absolutely. We are HUGE on business travel here. We finally got CO to do a non-stop to EWR as our first to the area in a while (I think Midex used to do a direct to the NYC area).
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
IslipWN
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Tue Jun 22, 2004 3:14 am

Don't forget about ISP!!!
 
rockyracoon
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Tue Jun 22, 2004 3:18 am

It's Pittsburgh


One thing for certain, they won't venture into CVG. And if they do, they won't last. Would be nice to see a few E190's flying in daly.



peace
 
AirlineFanatic
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Tue Jun 22, 2004 3:23 am

I can confirm that CVG is on the list of 190 destinations, curious why you believe "they won't last [in CVG]."

B6 has a loyal following at will reach 100 flights at JFK this fall, secondary cities such as CVG will appeal to biz travelers as well as connecting feed to the 320 markets currently served out of JFK...
 
rjpieces
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Tue Jun 22, 2004 3:25 am

I am willing to bet money, about 3 dollars, that among the first cities that JetBlue serves with the E190, will be Albany, NY. From an economic and a political standpoint, it is a must fly route.

If it were so important, they would serve it now. I'd bet that B6 will place the E190s on their shorthops (Buffalo, Rochester, etc) first, replacing 5 320 flights with 8 190 flights, as an example.

Also, I wouldn't expect massive city expansion. There are tons of dots B6 can connect with the 190s, such as IAD-MSY. However, I do expect them to open up some new stations in MidAmerica.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Tue Jun 22, 2004 8:26 am

RJpieces is correct. Neeleman said at the time of the 190 order that one use JetBlue plans is to put them on the Upstate routes. It will allow them to increase frequencies, which business pax especially will like (and B6 has lots of those from Upstate) and redeploy the A320's on transcons, Florida, etc.

8 190 flights for 5 320 flight sounds about right. The list ONT737 posted says it all: there are a lot of markets that have high fares to the single largest O & D market in the United States. Those 190's could make a killing on a lot of medium-size market pairs out of the NYC area. Just like People Express did. Unlike People Express, though, JetBlue is well managed. So B6 has a good probability of making a long-term difference in these markets.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
AGrayson514
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:36 am

Grand Rapids, Michigan was on the original list for JBU but never saw service, so I imagine that if that area continues to grow the way it has over the last decade, GRR will see 190 service. I think that there were a few other cities that were on the intended destinations list but did not get service, I'll look into it.

As far as a base, the midcontinent idea sounds like a good plan, especially with STL now without a major hub operation, and I think that although the infrastructure isn't there, MSY wouldn't be half bad if JBU continued to expand in the Caribbean Mexico and Central America. I remember a thread on a proposed mega airport for the New Orleans area, but those plans sounded doubtful at best. Still, if that ever went through it'd be a great place for JBU. One thing is for sure, I can't see 100+ more planes based out of JFK without expansion.


~ Andrew Grayson
Give a little bit...
 
MAH4546
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:45 am

MAH4546, RDU is about half the distance from NYC as MIA and the price is about the same. You do the math.

Distance is only about 25% of the equation. There are so many more factors that go into order. $190 return fares on Raleigh-New York City are very fair. You can't base fares on distance.

a.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:01 am

Then what are the fares based on.
Aiming High and going far..
 
isitsafenow
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:02 am

I like AGRAYSON514's post about GRR. FNT was also on the list just before Jetblue got cranked up. I feel GRR and FNT will be EM190 cites with possible TVC as seasonal from apx June 1 thru mid September. TVC grows from apx 15,000 in the winter to close to 100,000 people in the summer months.....gotta be there to see and enjoy it.
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: Likely B6 EMB190 Destinations...

Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:20 am

Fares, in theory, are comprised of a base value and then a dollar per mile amount... just as costs are. Think about it... if you fly 500 miles compared to 2000 miles, the difference is mostly in fuel and labor. Everything ELSE that goes into making that plane fly that one hop is pretty much the same. If it was strictly mileage, then JFK-LAX would cost 8 times more than JFK-IAD - and we know that is not the case.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!

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