dmerinop
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Near Incident On AerLingus Flight

Tue Jun 22, 2004 6:51 am

A woman tried to open the emergency door mid-air from LHR-ORK.

News page can be seen here:
http://212.2.162.45/news/story.asp?j=108350526&p=yx835yz3z&n=108351286

Dani
 
Horus
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RE: Near Incident On AerLingus Flight

Tue Jun 22, 2004 6:55 am

I 'love' the way the article keeps on saying it was an "English woman".


[Edited 2004-06-22 00:01:00]
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
captaingomes
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RE: Near Incident On AerLingus Flight

Tue Jun 22, 2004 6:58 am

The only incident is the fact that the woman needs mental help. This would not pose any threat to the passengers or more importantly  Big grin the aircraft.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
itsjustme
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RE: Near Incident On AerLingus Flight

Tue Jun 22, 2004 7:50 am

The only incident is the fact that the woman needs mental help. This would not pose any threat to the passengers

How would opening a door while an aircraft is airborn not pose any threat to the passengers? Are you unable to open those doors while the aircraft is flying?
Just curious. Thanks.
Joe

 
airxliban
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RE: Near Incident On AerLingus Flight

Tue Jun 22, 2004 7:54 am

Its just you,

Aircraft doors are of the plug type, such that the pressure difference between the cabin and the outside air basically pushes the door against the fuselage. In order to open it, you'd need for it first to be unlocked (controllable from the cockpit) and secondly, the strength of a hell of a lot of people. You'd probably be fighting over 0.5atms of pressure.
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
Brido
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RE: Near Incident On AerLingus Flight

Tue Jun 22, 2004 8:36 am

AirxLiban:

You are right about the plug-type doors, the pressure differential, and the fact that it would be near-impossible to open a modern aircraft door inflight.

However: The doors are not "locked" per se and certainly not "controllable from the cockpit".



 
airxliban
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RE: Near Incident On AerLingus Flight

Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:58 am

Brido,

It was my understanding that there are locks on the doors that are controllable from the cockpit.

However, the source of this piece of knowledge came from the infamous PiedmontGirl of olde and we all know about her.

Please confirm.

If there are no locks, that means you can open the door at low altitude.
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
Brido
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RE: Near Incident On AerLingus Flight

Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:24 am

What was the deal with Piedmont Girl? Why is she now "infamous?"

I am a very-occasional poster here so tend not to be up on all the dramas and scandals.

I remember her though and thought she seemed nice. What happened?

I have worked as a Flight Attendant on 10+ airplane types from Nord 262 to DC-10. Never heard of the doors being "locked" bu the cockpit crew, but hey I could be wrong...

So what about Piedmont Girl?
 
airxliban
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RE: Near Incident On AerLingus Flight

Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:55 am

rumour has it that she turned out to be an imposter...a 15 year old pre pubescent male.

certain comments were posted on airliners.net's evil alter ego, which someone tipped her off to and which 'she' apparently read and took great offense to, to the extent that she left a.net.

as far as i could tell, all off my communications with piedmontgirl were of the cordial nature.

although the martin 4-0-4 memoirs were a bit annoying.

go figure. In any case, if she was an imposter...major props, he pulled it off quite well.

reference this post in the site related forum:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/site_related/read.main/19568/

anyway, so what prevents a passenger from opening the doors at low altitude?

[Edited 2004-06-22 03:57:40]
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
captaingomes
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RE: Near Incident On AerLingus Flight

Tue Jun 22, 2004 1:05 pm

You bring up a good point AirxLiban, and theoretically it should be possible to open up a door at low altitude. I still stand by my comment that this would not pose a threat to the safety of the passengers, unless the woman started throwing the passengers out the door.  Big grin

The reason this would theoretically not be a threat is because all it would do is create a lot of wind and noise inside the cabin, but because there would not be a difference in pressure between the aircraft and the outside atmosphere, then nobody would be sucked out. Keep in mind that even in a rapid decompression, the threat of being sucked out only exists in the short time it takes for the pressure to equalize between the cabin and outside.

To illustrate why opening a door at low altitude would not be a threat, and perhaps somebody else can provide more details, there have been cases in the past where the crew have opened doors or windows in-flight, such as in the case of smoke. It was either a 767 or a 777 recently flying across the Atlantic where the pilots opened one or more cockpit windows at low altitude to get rid of the smoke inside. Also, and I'm not sure if this feature has ever been used in any case, in the 747, you can crack open one of the rear doors at low altitude, again for the purpose of allowing smoke to escape from the cabin.

I hope that not only helps, but also leads to further discussion.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
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NZ1
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RE: Near Incident On AerLingus Flight

Tue Jun 22, 2004 1:25 pm

You can indeed crack open the door of a 747 at low altitude to aid the dispersion of smoke. There is even a strap which fits on the door handle and is affixed to the aircraft to allow such an action without the door fully opening.

Also, there is no way in hell the doors are locked/controlled from the flight deck. Utter rubbish.

With say a 2psi differential over the entire door, you would be trying to fight a couple of ton force just to crack it at high altitude.

Regards
NZ1
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squirrel83
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RE: Near Incident On AerLingus Flight

Tue Jun 22, 2004 1:36 pm

LOL, This lady must have wanted a breath of fresh air, maybe she was sitting next to the lav??? LOL I can only imagin being on that flight; sitting there thinking uhh lady do you know what you are doing? I can only imagin . . SCARY . .
A346, 7E7, 747, 777, Sonic Cruiser
 
CKT523
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RE: Near Incident On AerLingus Flight

Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:46 pm

indeed nobody could "open" a door above about 10,000ft but all the same, it doesnt look all that pretty for passengers who dont know this! I remember reading in a 747 manual about cracking doors to disperse smoke. great idea.
 
ua777222
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RE: Near Incident On AerLingus Flight

Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:01 am

There have been many different posts about this. First off there are the 'cork' doors and there are the other doors. The fact of the matter is that the door opens out and when going 300-600mph this would be almost/if not humanly impossible. And yes the lady does need help in the head.


UA777222
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Near Incident On AerLingus Flight

Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:11 am

Somewhat related, Mythbusters was on Discovery last night (in the US). They were pressurising an old DC-9 and shooting holes in it. 9mm holes with a remote controlled pistol, even in a window, only resulted in a easily controllable leaks. Even blasting an entire window away with detcord still had their dummy sitting strapped into the seat next to the window, although he may have broken his arm (it was hanging out through the window). Other pax would probably have a brown trouser moment but they would not be sucked out. Finally, they used a shaped charge to blow away several meters of fuselage. That did have the desired effect, but they still concluded that this would probably only be hazardous to those sitting near the hole. Others would not be sucked out, even if unrestrained.

So much for that urban legend.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
C130HERCULES
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RE: Near Incident On AerLingus Flight

Wed Jun 23, 2004 1:37 am

As practically impossible as it is for that woman to open the door, it still is qutie SCARY for other pax to see her do that . ON the topic of 'cabin doors' does anyone recall the incident that made headlines involving the South African Airways flight destined for LHR. I may be wrong but one of the f/a dashed to get the handle in the locked position and was highly praised for her actions.  Big thumbs up
Vacation - ''Time wasted between two flights''
 
airxliban
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RE: Near Incident On AerLingus Flight

Wed Jun 23, 2004 1:50 am

C130 Hercules,

wasn't that a BA flight headed to Lagos?
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
C130HERCULES
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RE: Near Incident On AerLingus Flight

Wed Jun 23, 2004 1:57 am

Let me see, Im pretty sure it was a South African Airways flight but you maybe right. I will look into it.
Vacation - ''Time wasted between two flights''
 
AR385
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RE: Near Incident On AerLingus Flight

Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:37 am

Altitude has no bearing on wether the door opens or not. It´s pressurization. The plane can be idle on the ground, but if it´s pressurized you won´t be able to open any door. I do recall, however, that an AA flight attendant was killed when he/she opened a door on the ground while the plane was still pressurized and was sucked out and smashed against the tarmac. Maybe the plane was depressurizing and at that point the pressure was such that a person could open a door but still suffer the consequences.
 
whitehatter
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RE: Near Incident On AerLingus Flight

Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:48 am

Let me see, Im pretty sure it was a South African Airways flight but you maybe right. I will look into it.

BA flight to Nairobi, although this might well have been another one!

The passenger was carted off to the local funny farm after the passengers and crew tied him up. Someone caught it on camera, plus it happened in the first class cabin. The rock star Bryan Ferry was involved in subduing him which is why it made the papers

[Edited 2004-06-23 04:49:58]
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
AR385
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RE: Near Incident On AerLingus Flight

Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:07 pm

It was in the Club World, Upper Deck cabin.
 
bwaflyer
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RE: Near Incident On AerLingus Flight

Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:55 am

I fly on the 73G, and in common with the rest of the 737NG range, there is a speed lock on the cantilever over wing exits, primarily because no crew are stationed there. I seem to remember studying on a CRM course (and I am quite prepared to be proved wrong!) that a Saudia L1011 had a cabin fire and returned to Saudi, amid much confusion. The (unqualified)flight engineer didn't depressurise the cabin, meaning the cabin crew couldn't open the exits, and there were no survivors. Examining the wreckage, investigators found piles of bodies around each door.
 
Type-Rated
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RE: Near Incident On AerLingus Flight

Fri Jun 25, 2004 8:07 am

Usually as soon as the a/c pushed back for it's taxi on the way to the runway, we start the cabin pressurization. This is done for the comfort of the pax so cabin gradually increases rather than rather abruptly during a 3,000 fpm climbout.
I thought commercial planes had "dump valves" on their pressure systems so when they land, any excess pressure is relieved automatically. That's why a lot of times you'll find that your ears pop upon touchdown.
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
 
C130HERCULES
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RE: Near Incident On AerLingus Flight

Fri Jun 25, 2004 8:11 am

Hi Whitehatter, Yes I am sure it was a South African flight for I remember the f/a's name was Ms. Naidoo.
I will try to get an article on it and post it .  Smile
Vacation - ''Time wasted between two flights''
 
CKT523
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RE: Near Incident On AerLingus Flight

Mon Jun 28, 2004 9:10 am

you are quite right BWAflyer. I had the same training as you with AEU and we were given the same example of the SV Tristar at Riyadh, pilot returned to airport with smoke in cabin and refused to evacuate on the runway and taxied to stand.When fire crews tried to open the cabin doors, they couldnt as one engine was still running, therefore the cabin was still presurised and the doors were locked to the cabin wall.Also when they did manage to gain access, the doors would not open due to people being next to them and they couldnt open inwards before they could ride up into the fuselage.Indeed they did find a pile of bodies round the doors and also in the flight deck where they had breeched the door,trying to escape the smoke and fire.Very nasty, and lessons hopefully were learned. off topic but i did enjoy first aid training with AEU, with good old Jasmine and a her "5 breaths to achive 2".hehe, it worked though cause i havent forgotten any of it!Bless her.
 
TexAussie
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RE: Near Incident On AerLingus Flight

Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:35 pm

The BA flight with the rocker on board was NOT the door opening scare. In the BA incident, a thug burst into the flight deck and forced the control collumn down, putting the 744 into a dive about a degree or two away from being irrecoverable (per the report). The Club passengers upstairs responded to the crew's call for assistance and beat the crap out of the guy. The rock star was down in 1st wetting his drawers (as would most people -- so no disrespect!). According to the article I read, he and his son were on the plane, but were not the heroes of the day.
 
dgehfx
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RE: Near Incident On AerLingus Flight

Mon Jun 28, 2004 11:27 pm



I wonder whether the question about the door locks being controlled from the cockpit relates more to the fact that many commercial aircraft have contact points around each door so the pilots can confirm that the doors are indeed closed properly.

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