MAH4546
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Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:06 pm

The last flight for American Airlines' Fokker 100 aircraft will be, as of now, 8 September 2004. It will be AA 2573 from White Plains to O'Hare, departing White Plains at 0933, arriving in O'Hare at 1033.
a.
 
miaskies
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:07 pm

What are they planning on using as replacements the tons of MD80's they have? and 738's?...for now anyway.

Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
 
AA737-823
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:16 pm

Too bad. It was a neat little plane. Kinda funky. And not old enough to retire.

R
 
MAH4546
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:27 pm

What are they planning on using as replacements the tons of MD80's they have? and 738's?...for now anyway.


There is no direct replacement. Routes they were formerly on will see mainly MD80s and CRJ-700s, though 738s and ERJs are on some of them too.
a.
 
ualonghaul
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:29 pm

American needs to ditch the md80 and f100 family once and for all. Those planes, albeit nice and quiet, are junky old tin cans. Talk about lack of service, even in F class no audio, no video, no meals on most flights. I am glad to see AA is moving one step in the right direction.

Now lose the md80 and i might you fly you once every 10 years.
 
NW7E7
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:36 pm

Same goes with NW's DC-9's!!!  Nuts  Nuts  Nuts
 
scottysair
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:44 pm

This is very sad to hear about Fokker F100 are leaving from ORD into this fall and will miss them very soon.  Crying
 
blink182
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:51 pm

The Fokkers are nice aircraft, but I don't want to spend more than two hours on one. They just seemed a bit cramped. I've always liked AA's MD-80s. They don't have the bells and whistles, but they are very quiet(near the front), and have a somewhat open feel to them that I don't find on AA's F100s and 757s (can't speak for the 738s). I have spent 3.5 hours on AA MD-80s before, and I'd gladly do it again.

Kind of unrelated, but does anybody know what will happen to one of the gates at ORD at I believe concourse K right next to the Admirals Club? Last time I was there I thought it could only handle a F100 and it would be a waste to not use the gate. Maybe American Eagle could use it for overflow?

blink

Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
tekelberry
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Wed Jun 23, 2004 1:28 pm

UAlonghaul,

Please stop. No one asked for your opinion on the SP80, and no one (obviously) respects it by looking at your respect rating. Keep your ignorant thoughts to yourself.

[Edited 2004-06-23 06:29:21]
 
ASTROJET707
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:33 pm

Last I read they were to be retired by DEC-05. What has happened to accelerate the removal?

AJ707
 
N960AS
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:36 pm

Sometimes this forum is just a place where people who fly two roundtrips a year to MCO or some place bash MD80s, espeically AAs.

But can anyone who actually flies them tell me why they're so bad again? I've flown 9 AA MD80 segments since November 03 and I think they're great. Why would you argue with a 2-3 configuration, MRTC, new seats, powerports and an extremely quiet front cabin??? I'll take my ipod and a good book over a drop down screen on a 737NG or A32S with some edited movie any day.

I don't care if it's a 45 min ORD-SLT or an almost 4 hours STL-LAX. Put me on an AA MD80 over any US domestic airline's plane (except AA 767s and 777s).
 
Corsair2
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:01 am

I agree with Ssides!

Who really needs the IFE on short domestic flights.

The MD-80s and F100s are so much more ergonomic to fly in than most of those other planes with the cramped 3-3 abreast seating. And the MD-80 is a solid workhorse with a venerable reliability record.

To UAlonghaul, why does the MD-80 give you the feeling it is going to nosedive at any moment? Do you understand what the underlying causes were of that Alaska Airlines incident a few years ago?
"We have clearance Clarence. Roger, Roger. What's our vector Victor?"
 
jsnww81
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:22 am

Good God, Airliners.net shuts down for two days and everyone comes back so testy and irritable! I just logged on and I've seen four or five threads already where everyone's lobbing profanities at each other.

It's all a matter of personal preference. I for one love American's MD80s. They're long and narrow, yes, but the MRTC seems to really shine through on them. I also belong to that .001% of Airliners.net users who don't give a damn about in-flight entertainment. I bring a book or, more realistically, look out the window. Reruns of "Three and a Half Men" are not going to elevate an aircraft to my all-time personal favorite. I find the obsession with IFE in these forums a little puzzling.

With the way things are moving in the industry, I'm grateful to get a mainline aircraft at all. I'd much rather take an MD80 than a little tinker-toy regional jet.

As for the Fokkers, they were good little workhorses, but when their retirement was announced 16 months or so ago, American seemed to stop caring about them. The Fokkers I flew on in the past year or so were all dirty and worn-out looking. That could be because the vast majority of them never got the new interiors.

In any case, the Fokkers' retirement means that yet more American stations will lose their mainline service. Oh well, such is the price of progress.  Smile
 
contrails
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:29 am

I've never been particularly crazy about the F-100, but I've tolerated it ok. To me, and I know we all have different ideas about planes, the F-100 always seemed kind of cramped. But since the flights were always short it never actually bothered me that much.

I've flown all across the country on MD-80's, and don't have any particular problem with it. The MD-80 does make a lot more noise on takeoff than the more modern planes, and that may spell big trouble for it in the years ahead. Does anyone know if hush kits are being developed for the MD-80?

What I like about both planes is the 2-3 seating in coach. Whenever I fly on either plane I try to get a seat on the left side (the "2" side).

It seems inevitable that the MD-80 will someday disappear from the skies, just as the 727 has. Too bad.
Flying Colors Forever!
 
Dazed767
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:52 am

I've flown on only one F**ker 100. It seems like a more modern DC-9. There was a horrible 'out-of-sync' sound coming from the engines and vibriating throughout the cabin when we were on the ground. Glad to say I flew on it, but it wasn't one of my fav's.

Like Jsnww81 said, it beats flying on an RJ.
 
Pearyland
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:08 am

Well, it is true that the MD's are not pretty young aircrafts, but they are my favorites!

I have flown on them many times (mostly on AA). And if you belive it or not: Every time I did sit in one of the last rows next to the engines. Man, this is damn loud and damn cool! In the back you can feel and hear the power of an engine. During Take Off you think that the engine will explode. It is unbelievable. But after two hours of flight you have enough of the sound and you are glad if you are back on earth.

The decision between the back and the forward cabin is more than huge. During one of my flights I walked down to the forward cabin. Even after a few steppes its getting that quit that its understandable that people who are flying on the MD's want to fly in one of the rows in the front

The same statement for the F100!

In my opinion: Keep the MD flying!

Best Regrads from Greenland
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:32 am

American needs to ditch the md80 and f100 family once and for all. Those planes, albeit nice and quiet, are junky old tin cans. Talk about lack of service, even in F class no audio, no video, no meals on most flights.

OK,UAlonghaul, and the lack of audio, video, and meals is the fault of the MD-80? How could delta have video capabilities in some of their MD-80/90? How could Midwest use the plane to build their trademarks of wonderful full meal service on the MD-80? How could they offer full audio on the MD-80? Its not the plane- its the airline. Get a clue.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
September11
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:37 am

AA Fokker 100


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Nice mainline jet.
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jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:43 am

As all these posts are talking about the AA MD80

You actually initiated the topic of discussing the MD-80 when you included it in your F-100 bashing in .

AA does not have IFE on the MD80, and they are not going to add assets to a plane that does not have a very long future at AA

And why would you say that? Hello NWA? It is the backbone of their domestic fleet, and not that old.....
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
7e72004
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:48 am

It does not seem like the F-100 was a very successful aircraft...when was the first flight??
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:53 am

7E72004-

F-100 first flight- 1986
Closed production- 1996
total produced- 283
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
7e72004
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:55 am

What is the problem with them now? Is it because the line has been shut down that it is hard to maintain them? I know Midway had a few of them.
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
deltairlines
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:56 am

I can't speak for everyone here, but IFE is overrated. I have been on several flights where I could have watched movies (both on overhead or on PTVs) or listened to music (I have a ton of complimentary headphones that I just keep when I fly First Class), but I would guess that about 99% of the time, I just ignore the IFE provided by the airline (the only time I really watch is when it is a movie that I want to see but haven't yet, and the last time that happened on a flight was about 1998). For my IFE, I would prefer to read the newspaper, read a book, play a game on my laptop or PDA, or to actually be productive and do some work, so that when I get to my destination, I might have an extra hour or more, of which I can use to do something fun, such as go to a ballgame if time permits, etc. I have flown about 100 segments on MD-80s (primarily DL, AA, US, and CO), and they are amongst my favourite aircraft (with the 767) if I am in coach, as there is the 2-3/3-2 seating, and on AA, I get MRTC (that's why I would like to switch over to AA, but BOS-LGA is Eagle while DL offers 738s with their "MRTC"/Shuttle Config, and when I move to GSO, they only have Eagle to DFW).

Anyway, back to the Fokkers...I'm not too saddened to see them go. They did serve a niche market well, and I think that if/when AA can get their finances in order, they might order the 717 (that is a ways off, if ever, from happening...let's not speculate on that yet...). Unfortunately, for AA, Fokker went out of business, which certainly did not help the type...At least a lot of these planes aren't heading to the desert yet, as I know Hevetia (sp?) and JetsGo are taking on quite a few of the 75...(Isn't Austrian taking some on too?)

Jeff
 
AIR757200
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:09 am


I can't speak for everyone here, but IFE is overrated.

I second that.  Big grin

I would gather all the "can't live without it" IFE people on this site; but them in a plane (777?) with PTV's... after take-off (I'm the No. 1 F/A), start programming and then just turn it off and say it broke and tell everyone to sit down and shut up (and enjoy the ride). LOL!

In any case: out of my official 11 F-100 segments I've been on, I will really miss the plane. My most recent was DTW-ORD-HPN-ORD. I took in every minute of my last few rides on Barbie's Dream Jet.
 
SESGDL
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:32 am

"Exactly, AA does not have IFE on the MD80, and they are not going to add assets to a plane that does not have a very long future at AA."

Your posts become more and more ridiculous by the day. Also, I guarantee that 10-15 years from now, AA will still be flying the Maddog.

Jeremy
 
tekelberry
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Fri Jun 25, 2004 3:10 am

UAlonghaul,

Maybe you don't know how a forum works yet since you just joined a few weeks ago. Usually, a topic consists of one subject. You are supposed to stick with that subject when you make a reply. This thread has nothing to do with MD-80s and you keep blabbering on about them.
 
stirling
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:00 am

UAlonghaul Dude,

You are absolutely correct, this is a public forum, and you are encouraged to have your own opinion. The question here is credibility. How are you so familiar with AA's MD80'a if you live in Singapore? Did you recently move their or something?
Your opinions concerning the MD-80 would be taken more seriously if your posts weren't filled with so much unilateral and vindictive diatribe. Your lashing out at anyone who doesn't agree with your position is getting old, and I've been a member of this forum for not even a month!
You must take into consideration that hundreds+ of these particular aircraft have been purchased and operated by airlines the world over. If it was/is such a terrible aircraft, how do explain a lifespan of almost 40 years?, (from DC-9-10 to the present 717) they are obviously doing something right.
I think we all here are mature enough to realize that IFE is not what makes an airliner great. Is IFE the sole basis of your argument? I would think safety would be most people's benchmark. To me, and I think I speak for the majority (correct me please if I am wrong), find pleasure in the pure simplicity and miracle of flight! IFE is a bonus. Even aircraft I don't particularly care for, I must appreciate, it's part of the unwritten code.
Now, flying 5+ hours over a blank ocean, or a landscape completely obscured by the clouds, that is a different story. But PHX-DFW?, let me soak up every minute of flight. To me, in this instance, IFE is a distraction, something for the ADHD crowd, the videogame generation, the impatient, and not so much for those who love aviation with every ounce of their heart, who get goose-bumps at the sound of a plane overhead, those who have jet-fuel running through their veins.
I will concede one point and that is IFE is great when it's used to enhance the flying experience...such as external cameras, maps showing the progress of the flight, and data such as airspeed temperature, ETA and such.
I suppose you can chalk up my opinion to being an oldtimer. An oldtimer that has spent countless hours in aviation classics, when "getting there" wasn't just "half" the fun, it "was" the fun, on the Constellation, the Gooney Bird, the original 707s, Fokkers, Convairs, and Nords, as well as best Seattle, Long Beach and Toulouse have to offer. I for one, will prefer the "short" side of the MD-80 to any seat on any 737 any day, that is just my opinion, and that's all that needs to be said. Period. No calling people names, no insults, its only a preference.
Aviation is a passion, please do not insult others just because we don't share your vision of beauty. It's kinda like calling my kids ugly!!!!
Don't be a hater. But rather, listen and learn.  Smile

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PHLBOS
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:31 am

I know Midway had a few of them.

Prior to April 2002, US also flew the F100; I believe most of them (if not all) they inherited from the PI merger.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
MSY-MSP
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:42 am

Ok, I have been in hiding for a while, and don't post often anyway. However, I feel the need to post on this topic.

Normally I fly UA or NW (yes I do fly the "ancient" NW Douglas aircraft) so my experience with AA is limited. However, AA has saved me a few times when no other airline was flying during a snow storm in ALB. (two cancelled flights and a reroute from NW. Walked over to AA and bought a ticket that night back to MSP). During the times AA has saved me, I have flown on the F-100, MD-80 and the ERJ. First of all I am a big fan of the 2-3 seating on the F-100 and MD80, it just makes the plane seem more comfortable, even if in reality it isn't. IFE isn't that important to me during the flight. I either have work to do or watch a DVD on my laptop, so if there are power ports I am happy. (I do however, really enjoy the channel 9 on UA, and the fact that all of UA aircraft, not counting UAX, have audio.)

Now regarding the retirement of the F-100. I know there have been problems with the F-100 since the start of the program. There were reports of problems with the engine mounts recently, but I haven't seen anything on that recently, so I won't comment on that. I do know that during the development of the F-100 there was some problems with the avionics and electrial systems on board the aircraft. I worked for Raytheon and we provided some of the electronics for the F-100. There was a problem with the electronics overheating, and crapping out. Fokker accused us of not meeting the specs, and causing the overheating. However, the problem was that Fokker couldn't meet the airflow requirements they gave us during the design. I know that we were trying to fix the problem, but I cannot remember the end solution. So AA might be accelerating the retirement of these aircraft because the lifespan of the electronics may be reduced, and they may need replacement sooner than anticipated.

Another reason AA may be retiring the fleet earlier is to narrow their fleet type down to only Boeing aircraft (Boeing and MD) (Yes I know about the A300) to help keep maintainance cost down.

A third reason the fleet may be retiring now is they have found a buyer for the aircraft who wants them now. I recall reading somewhere that JetsGo was interested in the F-100, so maybe this is where they are going with AA getting some much needed money. All of this is speculation on my part.

It is always sad when an airline divests itself of a fleet type, but I am sure there are rational reasons for this.
 
TWA902fly
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:46 am

I can't say i was a big fan of AA's F100. However, i have only been on one and that was flying ORD-BOS, and i dont really remember why i didnt like it, just didnt seem up there with some other airplanes, however i do wish it was still flying as it added variety to the A/B/MD world we're in. I'd fly a F100 if i could again, just to get a second opinion.

By the way- AA MD-80s aren't that bad. Audio would help but no one needs TVs anyways. i flew ORD-MIA, MIA-ORD, BOS-ORD on them and it wasn't bad at all. Feels like a nice airplane.

TWA902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
NWADC9
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:59 am

As far as I know of, AA is replacing the F100 with 737-800's and/or American Eagle. The MD-82's will be replaced with the 737-800.
Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Fri Jun 25, 2004 5:06 am

A couple things UAlonghaul...

1) You sound like a spoiled brat child bitching on and on about IFE. I assume that the Wright Flyer is junk now because it didn't have some cheap TV screen where reruns of crappy shows were played over and over again?

2) People managed to fly quite fine in the days before IFE...infact, before the IFE days, service was just that...service...IFE or not, most airlines TODAY are what you would term "cattle carriers". IFE is like nothing more than tranquilizer.

3) Let me tell you about another outdated technology...it's called a book. If god forbid you show up on a flight that doesn't have your precious IFE, then shut up and read because eventually, someone will have enough of you and stuff you in the overhead compartment. (and you thought the F100 cabin was cramped!)

4) IFE is up to the airlines. LH flies newer A340s, however, they don't have PTVs. Does that mean the LH is a crappy airline? If I had the money, I'd buy an MD-80 and turn it into a private jet...complete with television screens. McDonnell Douglas (and now Boeing) isn't responsible for IFE, the operator is. So go ahead, bash a whole airplane type. No one can stop you...but you would be far more respected and taken far more seriously if you actually bashed with facts rather than a big mouth and trigger happy fingers over a keyboard.

5) Back in the day, people were happy to make it to their destination alive, and they didn't bitch, whine, moan, or complain about IFE, weather delays, or food.

6) If UA is so much better than AA...fine...but I now pose this question to you...Which airline is currently in Chapter 11?

B4e-Forever New Frontiers

[Edited 2004-06-24 22:07:38]

[Edited 2004-06-24 22:09:32]
 
jerion
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Fri Jun 25, 2004 6:26 am

I've flown US and AA Fokker 100's and while they do seem a little cramp inside; I'd take an F100 over the RJ's anyday!

I was on one of AA's ORD-SAT (I believe at one time it was the longest scheduled AA Fokker flight). Even sitting in the back, I didn't notice it to be all that bad in terms of engine noise.I was back there for a little over three hours (I think).

I miss the quick, quiet, and smooth take off the 100 delivered.

I'm glad some the AA 100's are off to Jetsgo.


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Jerion
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N670UW
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Fri Jun 25, 2004 11:29 am

Prior to April 2002, US also flew the F100; I believe most of them (if not all) they inherited from the PI merger.

Nope. US ordered the F-100 themselves. From PI, they inherited 737-200/300/400, 767-200ER, F-28, and the 727-200.



R
 
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:02 pm

Yes, it is sad to see the Fokker 100 leaving, I've flown a quite a few of them and they were quite nice although a bit noisy on take off, but I think that American is now headed in the right direction by reducing the number of fleet types.

Look how many types they had three or four years ago following the TWA and Reno Air mergers:
B727, DC-10, MD-11, DC-9, MD-87, MD-90, MD-80, B717, B737, B757, B767, B777, A300 and F100 which is what the topic is all about.
as many as 14 different types

And now look how few they will still have after the F100 final flight:
B737, B757, B767, B777, MD-80 and A300
as little as 6 different types, it's a much simplified fleet, however it doesn't include types at Eagle. I wonder if American Eagle is now all jet, do they still have ATR's and Saab's?

I have nothing against Fokker, the 100's at American are still young, but symplifying the fleet can help the airline recover financially. I heard that pilots loved to fly them but these birds were a nightmare to maintain for MX crews on the ground. Nevertheless I do like the Fokker 100.

Farewell to the Fokker 100 at American Airlines

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PHLBOS
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Fri Jun 25, 2004 10:58 pm

Nope. US ordered the F-100 themselves. From PI, they inherited 737-200/300/400, 767-200ER, F-28, and the 727-200

N670UW,

Thanks for the correction. I did hear that US did inherit some Fokker aircraft from PI (which surprised me because I thought PI only had Boeings in their mainline fleet); but I guess it was in reference to the F-28 and not the F-100.

[Edited 2004-06-25 15:59:49]
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
airxliban
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Sat Jun 26, 2004 12:24 am

I have flown on an AA F-100 from ORD to DTW and on their MD-80s LAX-SFO-LAX and LAX-LAS-LAX and DTW-STK and i loved all of them.

The fokker 100 takeoff is so smooth and powerful. It is great. I also liked their MD-80s. The MRTC is really noticeable on the MD-80s more so than on the other planes in AA's fleet that I have been on (and i have been on all types except for AA's A300). In addition, you have the option of going on the left side of the MD-80s where there are two seats.

I really like it. I had to go on an AA 738 from LAX to MIA and that was not a comfortable ride.

I would take an MD-80 over just about any plane in AA's fleet, with the exception of the 767 and 777.

I don't understand why you people are such haters.
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Sat Jun 26, 2004 12:31 am

**Now lose the md80 and i might you fly you once every 10 years.**

UALonghaul, I don't think you need to worry about flying an AA MD-80 in Singapore anyway, so what did you mean by that?
 
AAR90
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Sat Jun 26, 2004 5:10 am

...I heard that pilots loved to fly them...

I'm not sure I would say I "loved" to fly 'em, but they were fun. I equated them to a "cheap" sportscar. A little underpowered, but great handling. Usually tried to avoid all the computer/FMS junk and it was.... well... fun!  Big thumbs up
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
 
nwa man
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Sat Jun 26, 2004 5:42 am

AA's unfortunate retiring of the Fokker fleet leads right into one of their largest problems: the lack of a 100 seat aircraft. The F100 is perfect for high-frequency business routes like ORD-DCA, ORD-MSP, ORD-ATL, and the like, offering a F cabin and a perfect amount of seats for the market.

With their impending retirement, AA now has two less-than-favorable options. The first is to switch routes to the CRJ-700, which offers 30 less seats, somewhat cramped surroundings, and no first class cabin, a sore point with Elite frequent flyers.

The second would be to place the MD-80 on former Fokker routes, but again, this provides routes with too much capacity - 30 extra seats per hour adds up over the course of a day.

So logically, AA has chosen the third option - platoon the CRJ-700 and MD-80, with perhaps a little more emphasis on the CRJ-700, given the lower crew costs. Thus, cities like MSP receive a reduction in seats and in comfort (no MRTC in the CRJ, to be sure), and AA's market share will probably suffer (up against carriers like UA - all mainline into ORD, and NW - all mainline or ARJ, which stands for Aberrational Regional Jet due to its comfort in both F and Y, into ORD, and all mainline into DFW).

Will the lack of the Fokker (or another 100 seat mainline jet) hurt American? Maybe - which is why I'm somewhat surprised that they didn't look more closely at the 717.


Regards,

N-Dub

[Edited 2004-06-25 22:45:44]
Create your own luck.
 
ssides
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Sat Jun 26, 2004 6:49 am

NW Man --

I would assume that AA believes the savings on enhanced fleet commonality will outweigh the loss of a 100-seat aircraft. Given the economies of scale involved with the MD-80, and the high opportunity costs and down-time of the F-100s, this might not be as bad of a deal as you think. On high-yield routes such as ORD-DCA, you will most definitely see MD-80s or 738s replace the F-100. On other routes -- especially those where AA is flying into another airline's hub (DFW-MSP, DFW-MEM, etc.), expect to see more CRJs.

... add DFW-CLE, ORD-CLE, and MIA-CLE to that list:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1625245/

[Edited 2004-06-25 23:51:00]
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
garnetpalmetto
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Sat Jun 26, 2004 9:24 am

Rather sad to see the F-100 go, myself, as I only got to fly on one once (when US had them) and I remember very little about the flight save that I was in the absolute back of the plane, it was cramped, and it was noisy. Would have loved to have given it another shot - alas, AA doesn't fly out of CAE.

And UALongHaul? IFE is a tool to pacify the masses. While you're dazed out in front of your precious PTV, actual service disappears. Plus the damned thing takes up leg room. I'd much rather have my CD player, a book, a magazine, or someone interesting to talk to as opposed to reruns of "Friends." If you're so ADD that you can't stay away from a TV for more than 3-4 hours, I suggest you get serious help before you enter the real workforce and are chained to a desk/cubicle for 8 hours a day. Having just graduated from college I can safely (and proudly) say that I never owned a boob tube. Watching DVDs on the computer? Sure. Read? Definitely. Zone out in front of such award-winning and memorable shows like "The OC?" Never. Leave television at home - there's much more entertaining fare just out your window.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Sat Jun 26, 2004 9:54 am

In the past 72 hours, I have flown 4 segments on AA MD-80's. Nothing wrong with them, and one of them was renovated inside, meaning I could plug in my laptop.

In any case, with 7½ hours battery life, IFE is starting to feel unnecessary. I bring my very own personalized IFE  Big grin
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
ckfred
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Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Sat Jun 26, 2004 1:31 pm

AA has had mixed feelings about the F100 from the delivery of the first plane. On the positive side, the plane is very economical in terms of fuel consumption. The pilots enjoy flying the plane. And the plane's breakeven load factor was the lowest in AA's fleet, when the plane was new.

On the negative side, the plane had a low maximum landing weight. So, to fly short hops, the plane would have to depart well below MTOW. Instead of flying hops like ORD-IND or DFW-AUS, the routes AA intended the plane to service, it wound up on ORD-SAT and DFW-ATL.

The plane was also difficult for the mechanics to work on. Instead of being built like a commercial jet, it was built like an overgrown business jet. I've also heard about avionics frying. My parents once sat at ORD for 90 minutes while several mechanics tried to get the instrument panel to function. Apparently, there were no gauge lights, no CRT displays, no nothing.

Remember, AA had 75 options on the plane, and never exercised them. because of the problems AA encountered.

After Fokker went out of business, the plane became more expensive to maintain. There was no Fokker to handle customer support and manufacture spare parts. AA has had to make its own parts, which is expensive. This is why AA is retiring the Fokker, even though it leaves a hole in the fleet, i.e., nothing between the 70-seat CRJ and the 129-seat MD-80.

Hopefully, AA gets its finances in order, so that it can order Fokker replacments, possibly 737-700s. Putting CRJs and ERJs on former mainline routes has angered a lot of customers. And the increase in RJ flying at ORD is creating delays, especially when storms come through. AA would be better served to cut frequencies on Fokker routes, but fly either 737s or MD-80s, so that the number of seats is roughly the same and road warriors have first-class upgrades.
 
Fokker50
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Mon Jun 28, 2004 11:20 am

I think is a shame for AA to retire their Foker fleet. In the market they have 1/3 of all the fokker 100 fleet in the world, i think they need to replace some of their crappy MD 80 series with other ones, not to retire thir fokker fleet, they are reliable for their needs in the regional market of the U.S.
Bye "luxury Jet"


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lat41
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RE: Last AA Fokker Flight: 8 September 2004

Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:03 pm

A few years ago, PVD-ORD used to be all Fokkers which were about 20 minutes slower on that route. Otherwise they were fine. I personally like the MD-80s as they have a bit more open feeling that the F-100s or even AA 757s. AA works the MD-80 fleet very hard. That's not the plane's fault. Had the terms been better, the 717 would have been ideal to replace the F-100s and even some older 80's.

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