jeff32
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Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Fri Jun 25, 2004 9:34 am

"The UAE has signed an agreement with Brazil and Argentina. Due to this agreement, Emirates is able to launch flights to South America.

Brazil has granted 14 frequencies per week to Emirates. Also intermediate stops between the UAE and Brazil can be made. Argentina has agreed to five frequencies per week."
 
scottysair
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RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Fri Jun 25, 2004 9:36 am

Will even get new A345 on their way to GRU or GIG?
 
chepos
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RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Fri Jun 25, 2004 9:43 am

In the EK website both GIG and EZE were mentioned as possible A340-500 destinations, so this news is not a bit surprising.
Chepos
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
scottysair
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RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Fri Jun 25, 2004 9:57 am

Yes, if even way with the new A345 will make good range with both service to GRU or GIG.
 
chepos
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RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Fri Jun 25, 2004 10:04 am

Sorry I meant GRU not GIG, my bad. But maybe they are considering GIG too.
Chepos
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
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yyz717
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RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Fri Jun 25, 2004 10:09 am

If MEA does not launch GRU flights soon, they will lose potential traffic to EK permanently.

Come on MEA -- lease a single 343 and snap to it!

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
FoxBravo
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RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Fri Jun 25, 2004 10:16 am

A nonstop between DXB and GRU/EZE would open up great connections between South America and Asia. In particular, DXB is an ideal stopping point between GRU and India/Southeast Asia.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
MAH4546
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RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Fri Jun 25, 2004 10:23 am

Sorry I meant GRU not GIG, my bad. But maybe they are considering GIG too.



No, you were correct. Emirates had Rio de Janeiro, not Sao Paulo, on thier website as a potential destination.
a.
 
scottysair
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RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Fri Jun 25, 2004 10:26 am

Are you sure, MAH4546? Is that correct one of service to GIG?
 
Brasuca
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RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Fri Jun 25, 2004 10:43 am

14 frequencies per week???  Wow! oh my god... that's too much... however I don't doubt anything on Emirates...
Varig, Varig, Varig
 
s.p.a.s.
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RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Fri Jun 25, 2004 10:52 am

Brasuca,

Note thay 14 per week is the maximum EK will be allowed to offer...it does not mean that they will exercise all the rights at once.

My bet would be daily flights to GRU and three times per week to Rio, to begin with.

Aquele abraço


Renato
"ad astra per aspera"
 
Sydscott
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RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Fri Jun 25, 2004 10:56 am


"Note thay 14 per week is the maximum EK will be allowed to offer...it does not mean that they will exercise all the rights at once."

They could always launch direct SYD or AKL flights to South America using some of those slots.
 
s.p.a.s.
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RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Fri Jun 25, 2004 11:26 am

Could be Sydscott...

But how would Oz and Kiwi authorities react to that, ie. grant the rights? And I don't know how far Brazilian authorities went with Oz and kiwi authorities regarding traffic rights. Brazil has no open skies agreement with neither Australia nor New Zealand, as far as I know.

Cheers

Renato
"ad astra per aspera"
 
Apollo17
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RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Fri Jun 25, 2004 11:31 am

I was in AKL last week and there were 3 EK parked: 2 B777 and 1 A345!!! I wonder... are these flights full?!?

A nonstop AKL/GRU would be great. I guess the A345 could handle that...
 
Sydscott
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RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Fri Jun 25, 2004 11:37 am


"But how would Oz and Kiwi authorities react to that, ie. grant the rights?"

I'm pretty sure they would do it without hesitation. QF used to fly Argentina direct but canned the service. It now codeshares. If EK wanted to do it direct from Sydney then I'm sure the Aust government would find a way to make it happen even if QF did object.

I'm not sure about Brazil. There are no determinations on the IASC website about capacity to there from Australia. I would assume that there is an agreement in place but you are right in saying it's not Open Skies.

However if EK wanted to do it I'm sure the Government would let them.
 
antares
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RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Fri Jun 25, 2004 11:38 am

FoxBravo, I'd consult a great circle mapper before before suggesting Dubai was a good place for Asia connections to South America.

The most direct routes between Singapore, Hong Kong and the economies thereabouts is via an Australian city, since most of these look like taking 20-21 hours without dealing with the 150-200 knot headwinds I once experienced on a Qantas sightseeing flight over the ice. Dubai is a 6.5/7 hour penalty just to get to a place where one further stop is required if the ultimate destination is Santiago or Buenos Aires.

One thing is for sure, trans South Polar routes are not for big twins, so it will have to be an A345 or 747-400 route depending on the flight stage from Australia across or near the ice continent.
 
Apollo17
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RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Fri Jun 25, 2004 11:53 am

Antares

The most direct routes between Singapore, Hong Kong and the economies thereabouts is via an Australian city

It depends...
Between most Asian cities and Brazil, the shortest route is via South Africa.
 
jeff32
Posts: 23
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RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:49 pm

I don't think they would fly DXB-GRU via any australian city . If you check the map, this route via South africa is half shorter.
 
Sydscott
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RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:45 pm


"If you check the map, this route via South africa is half shorter."

It doesn't matter about stage length. If EK flies the route through Australia/New Zealand it will have the advantage of picking up any and all O&D traffic between those markets as well as those travelling between Dubai and South America. I'm sure the market for doing that is bigger in Aust/NZ than it is in Southern Africa at the moment.
 
QF744
Posts: 327
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RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Fri Jun 25, 2004 3:58 pm

have found out today from someone at EK that they are going to fly to Sao Paulo, not Rio....

cheers

QF744
IT'S ALL ABOUT THE UPPER DECK
 
antares
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RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:29 pm

We were talking about flights from Asia, ie, east of India, to South America not from Dubai. I take the point about Brazil, that's why I referred to Santiago and Buenos Aires.

For fun (or cold shivers) I recommend drawing the great circle routes that would cross Antarctica, including Christchurch to Capetown and then trying to imagine what a crew would do in an emergency anywhere south of 70 degrees latitude with the nearest capable runways in NZ, Australia, South Africa, or, in extremis, Papeete or Easter Island.

Its a very different environment to trans Arctic routes, including very severe met conditions. In the 70s I was a passenger on a number of landings at McMurdo in January (so called summer) and it never got warmer than minus 18 C, we copped between minus 50 and minus 33 at the South Pole and plus 8 (a heat wave) at Lanyon Junction which is inland from the Australian Casey base.

I think there is a serious argument that trans south polar routes need several 24 hour emergency strips in Antartica, which is larger in extent than the continental US or Australia.
 
behramjee
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RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:53 pm

It would be best if EK started 4 weekly A 345s DXB-GRU-EZE-GRU-DXB initially and then based upon demand increase the service to DAILY.

The capacity of the A 345 is ideal for such a route.

I advise GRU and not GIG!!! GRU has more high yield traffic than GIG does!!!
 
BA
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RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Fri Jun 25, 2004 5:38 pm

Yyz717,

There are profitability concerns due to low yields on the route and that's why MEA has put it on hold for the moment.

Cargo flights have proven to be more profitable because Brazil recently stated that they want Lebanon to be the gateway for Brazilian goods to the Middle East and Asia.

So I'd expect Varig Cargo to start flights to Beirut and new maritime routes from the Port of Beirut to Brazil.

Passenger flights would be too low yielding to make any profits at the moment even though there is high demand...

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
soups
Posts: 3220
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 6:41 pm

RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Fri Jun 25, 2004 6:34 pm

will be good if they operate it via LOS or ACC or any other african destination
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
Argentina
Posts: 325
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RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Sat Jun 26, 2004 12:40 am

Any official information from Emirates or UAE press about beginning of flights to GRU and EZE?
 
Eirules
Posts: 1522
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:17 am

RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Sat Jun 26, 2004 4:13 am

Would I be crazy to suggest that they would operate the flight through a European city, perhaps DUB. There has been suggestions that EK would begin DUB-DXB flights quite soon and it would also have the monopoly on flight from DUB into South America as there are currently no direct services.
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
Arcano
Posts: 2299
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RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Sat Jun 26, 2004 4:24 am

Hi
Will EK also have the rights for selling tkts between EZE and GRU?

Are there many arab people in Argentina for this type of flights?

Antares: You are rights: look at the map and compare a "direct" flight DEL-GRU-EZE with one from DXB. Almost the same!
But, when you change to South East Asia, (as SIN) the best option is South Africa.
From North Asia (as Japan), the best route is completely different, the best option seems to be JFK (why then the stop in LAX???)


Hope this helps

Regards )( Arcano
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
FoxBravo
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RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Sat Jun 26, 2004 4:37 am

FoxBravo, I'd consult a great circle mapper before before suggesting Dubai was a good place for Asia connections to South America.

Antares, I think you are the one who should look at the great circle mapper: http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=gru-del%0D%0Agru-dxb-del%0D%0Agru-bom%0D%0Agru-dxb-bom%0D%0Agru-hkg%0D%0Agru-dxb-hkg%0D%0A&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=red&PATH-UNITS=mi&SPEED-GROUND=&SPEED-UNITS=kts&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=

That rendering shows the direct routes GRU-DEL, GRU-BOM and GRU-HKG, as well as each route with a stop in DXB. I'd say they're pretty darn close...in fact, on GRU-DEL, DXB is only 2 miles off the great circle route! If that's not an ideal stopover, I don't know what is. Australia, by comparison, is far out of the way.

And I can't imagine why you're talking about Antartica...the great circle route between DXB and GRU (or EZE or SCL, for that matter) goes straight across Africa and the South Atlantic. So there are no worries about cold shivers, emergency landings at McMurdo, etc.

Please check your geography again before criticizing mine!
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
FoxBravo
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RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Sat Jun 26, 2004 4:41 am

From North Asia (as Japan), the best route is completely different, the best option seems to be JFK

Arcano, that explains why JAL (unlike VARIG) operates NRT-JFK-GRU.  Smile
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
Arcano
Posts: 2299
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RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Sat Jun 26, 2004 5:02 am

FB: you are right! I totally forgot the JAL service to GRU.
Thanks man!
Actually, I have a proposal for LA: if they want to fly to Japan, the best route is not via LAX, but via HNL!: compare the potential direct flight with one with a stop in HNL:

Look at the benefits:
1. Hawaii gets a direct connection to South America and they could start to market tourism here
2. Any LA340 can do it
3.The detour of the stop in HNL is only 10 miles that if it could be made directly!

How does it sound?
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
erikwilliam
Posts: 2122
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RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Sat Jun 26, 2004 6:26 am

GREAT GREAT NEWS!!!
GRU would be a very good option too, since there´s more arabs descendts in Sao Paulo than Rio, but come on, just to have an Emirates Fligh is awesome.

Do U guys think this could get Emirates closer to join StarAlliance?Since South-America is very well served by Star member SpanAir, TAP, Varig.

just a tought!

Have a nice weekend guys.
Dida, Cafu, Lucio, Roque Junior, Roberto Carlo, Emerson, Ze Roberto, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Robinho, Ronaldo
 
antares
Posts: 1367
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:49 pm

RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Sat Jun 26, 2004 6:35 am

Let me go back to basics here.

If you want to fly from Singapore or Hong Kong, the two major Asia ports to Santiago or Bueonos Aires you wouldn't do it via Dubai, and you can't with any current design do it non-stop.

My point is that going to Argentina or Chile from Asia via Dubai would be a major inconvenience, unless you had reason to do business in the emirate on the way.

Ergo Melbourne or Sydney would be attractive. There may be MTOW summer time departure issues in both cities but possibly not as severe as in Perth.

The great circle distance from Singapore to Buenos Aires is more than 9800 miles, and given the atrocious and permanent headwinds in the 50-70 degrees S regime you could not route it with a westbound bias below South Africa for five or six hours of the flight.

Singapore to Santiago is 10201 miles great circle with a long Antarctic traverse. Hong Kong to Santiago is 11,616 miles with a deeper incursion.

Remember the great circle distance are not just the only factor in route design. Weather, and alternatives are critical. In the far southern latitudes there are no realistic alternates and the weather is appalling, all year.

Incidentally a word on business protocols in this hemisphere. Japan is not Asia, so I never even thought of the routes from there. Japan is Japan. It is true that we think of it as Asia, but if you ever refer to Japan as Asia in business negotiations in Japan, you've lost the deal. It is worse than calling Englishmen Scotsmen or Canadians Mexicans or vice versa.

 
MAH4546
Posts: 24721
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Sat Jun 26, 2004 8:02 am

Actually, I have a proposal for LA: if they want to fly to Japan, the best route is not via LAX, but via HNL!:

If LAN ever wanted to fly to Japan, they would most likely do it via Miami. Since, in Miami, they operate flights to SCL, PUJ, CUN, LIM, CCS, UIO, GYE, and BOG. Flying via NRT-CCS on LAN via HNL or LAX would require double-connecting and backtracking.

Also, the market for SCL-HNL is non-existant, and why would they flood even more seats on the low-yielding, high capacity NRT-HNL market?
a.
 
Al
Posts: 584
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 1999 10:28 pm

RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Sat Jun 26, 2004 8:29 am

I'm not sure about Brazil. There are no determinations on the IASC website about capacity to there from Australia. I would assume that there is an agreement in place but you are right in saying it's not Open Skies.

There is currently no ASA between Oz & Brazil.

 
FoxBravo
Posts: 2769
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RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Sat Jun 26, 2004 9:38 am

Antares, you are right that the great circle route between Santiago and Singapore goes much farther south, but that's not really relevant here. The thread is discussing nonstop flights between Dubai and Brazil (GRU and/or GIG) and Argentina (EZE). If Emirates were to start such flights, I maintain that they would offer excellent connections between South America and much of Asia. I agree that it's not ideal for Singapore or Kuala Lumpur--for those cities, the shortest route would be via South Africa--but it would certainly work well for Delhi, Mumbai, Hong Kong, etc. And some passengers might even choose to go from GRU or EZE to Bangkok or Singapore via Dubai--even though it's a thousand miles out of the way, the appeal of Emirates' inflight product and its hub airport could be sufficient, if the flight times and fares were good.

I'm not sure why you keep bringing up the winds and weather of Antartica, since the flights being discussed here wouldn't go anywhere near there...
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
antares
Posts: 1367
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:49 pm

RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Sat Jun 26, 2004 1:44 pm

Hi FoxBravo,

The original thread early suggested Emirates might connect Asia to South America over Dubai, to which I put forward the reasons why that was unlikely if we talk far southern South America.

I think the Asia-Chile/Argentina market is a sleeper that will awake, as it will between Australia and those countries. Reasons. Strong economic prospects at both ends of what is today a niche market.

However I certainly agree about the reputation of the product on EK (I haven't the new improved product, the old cabins were second rate but the service standards were excellent). Have used the airport several times in recent years and seen a huge improvbement, although it had a rather illogical upstairs/downstairs rat race layout last time I went through about a year ago making a truly awful link between a UK and Pakistan flight.
 
C130HERCULES
Posts: 76
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 6:10 am

RE: Emirates To Launch Flights To South America

Sun Jun 27, 2004 4:44 am

So they will be conquering South America. Do you think there is a possibilty they will start zooming to the tourist hot spots in the islands close by? Big grin
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