Venezuela747
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AA Switching From CDG To Orly

Sat Jun 26, 2004 3:35 am

Here is this news articles and it states that AA would like to move to Orly since the whole problem with the collapse in CDG and the delays this has brought, here is the link

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2004-06-25-aa-paris_x.htm#

Sorry If someone had already posted this article, I couldn't find any related threads
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KKMolokai
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RE: AA Switching From CDG To Orly

Sat Jun 26, 2004 3:54 am

We are the people of American Airlines. And we know why you fly.
 
FoxBravo
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RE: AA Switching From CDG To Orly

Sat Jun 26, 2004 4:07 am

I'm surprised by the second article. If ADP proposed the move to Orly, I would think AA would jump at the chance. If memory serves me right, they were the last U.S. airline holdout at ORY before ADP made them move to CDG. ORY is much more convenient to downtown Paris, and--unlike the Skyteam airlines--AA doesn't seem to have any compelling reason to stay at CDG, since it does not carry a meaningful amount of connecting traffic there.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
ckfred
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RE: AA Switching From CDG To Orly

Sat Jun 26, 2004 4:08 am

Some time ago, Robert Crandall, former CEO of AA, complained how the U.S. is accomodating of foreign carriers. Case in point, after a new bilateral agreement was concluded, foreign carriers would get slots for ORD. But if AA wanted to add new routes, it either had to drop an existing arrival and departure or buy a pair of slots.

On the other hand, foreign governments weren't as accomodating. AA was very happy at ORY. But the French government forced AA to move to CDG and assigned terminal space that AA considered to be inferior to other trans-Atlantic carriers.

So, it wouldn't surprise me if AA starts lobbying for a move back to ORY.
 
aa777223er
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RE: AA Switching From CDG To Orly

Sat Jun 26, 2004 5:24 am

The following is the response to this rumor from the Flight Service department at AA:

This rumor has surfaced as a result of the collapse of part of CDG's Terminal 2E last month, leading to its closure and the dissemination of flights to the remaining operational terminals. If you've flown into CDG, you probably already know that this is causing considerable congestion and the airport's operator, ADP, has been consulting with airlines to discuss ways to alleviate this. ADP has proposed that American move its operation to ORY where we were based until 1996.
We have no plans to make this transfer, which would clearly be a major undertaking with significant implications for our staff at the airport and to our business in France. So, we are preparing a comprehensive economic analysis for ADP that will explain why we do not consider a move to be financially viable, or a solution to the immediate problems of congestion at the airport.
In the meantime, we continue to work with ADP to explore alternative solutions that will reduce congestion and we've already taken a number of steps -- such as releasing some of our check-in desks to QANTAS and exploring changes to flight timings -- that could reduce terminal congestion.
Although we cannot categorically rule out that we'll have to move our operation from CDG to ORY, our position is that such a move would be impractical, very expensive for the company and would take many months of planning before it could be implemented. Most importantly, moving us would not contribute to resolving the immediate problems that ADP face.
For the foreseeable future, American's Paris operations will remain at CDG where our staff are pulling together to provide our passengers with excellent customer service despite the difficulties that currently face all carriers at the airport.


Regards,

AA777223ER
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767-332ER
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RE: AA Switching From CDG To Orly

Sat Jun 26, 2004 5:30 am


Just wondering here who out of the American carriers operate into the "donut" or the old CDG terminals. I remember flying into CDG about 4 yrs ago with KL and remember seeing US Airways and United there and I was wondering who uses what facilities. Since DL is a member of Skyteam along with AF, do they use AF facilities?
Regards
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miaskies
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RE: AA Switching From CDG To Orly

Sat Jun 26, 2004 8:11 am

I would agree!!! AA terminal space at CDG SUCKS!!! That is when you even get a gate!! If you are not on an AF or SkyTeam flight forget it!

MOVE TO ORLY AA!
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scottysair
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RE: AA Switching From CDG To Orly

Sat Jun 26, 2004 8:15 am

Yeah, this is not good for AA will move into ORY soon.
 
gigneil
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RE: AA Switching From CDG To Orly

Sat Jun 26, 2004 8:19 am

Since DL is a member of Skyteam along with AF, do they use AF facilities?


Yes they do.

N
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: AA Switching From CDG To Orly

Sat Jun 26, 2004 9:48 am

Of the US carriers that fly to CDG, Northwest, United, US Airways all fly out of Terminal 1.

American, Continental, and Delta fly from Terminal 2.

ContinentalEWR
 
Ealsys1
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RE: AA Switching From CDG To Orly

Sat Jun 26, 2004 9:58 am

I just connected through CDG last week. I felew AA 62/63 to/from MIA. I flew from there to Florence and from Venice. It was my first experience with CDG and I can tell you that that airport is a hole!! Buses everywhere, poorly designed facilities, I saw a British woman and her one year old almost trampled!! I'm torn on this one since I used CDG to connect, I used 100K miles to upg my wife and me to first, yet I hate the airport. Any business you remove from CDG hopefully will send ADP a message that CDG really sucks!!!

Sam
 
squirrel83
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RE: AA Switching From CDG To Orly

Sat Jun 26, 2004 10:40 am

American Airlines said it is refusing to move its Paris operations out of Charles de Gaulle airport due to the collapsed roof at one of the terminals. The airliners said Aeroports de Paris, the airport management group, had proposed that it move operations to Orly airport on the other side of Paris.
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flyTPA
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RE: AA Switching From CDG To Orly

Sat Jun 26, 2004 12:37 pm

Does anyone know why ADP forced American to move to CDG from ORY in 1996 in the first place? Apparently all US carriers were moved. Did ADP pay for the transfer?
Signore e signori-benvenuti a bordo questo volo per l'Italia!
 
TLHFLA
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RE: AA Switching From CDG To Orly

Sat Jun 26, 2004 12:58 pm

Which airport is more convenient to the central business district in Paris? I remember USAir advertising the move from ORY to CDG around 1995. They were commenting that they were pleased to begin offering service to CDG since it's more convenient than ORY.
Bill in ATL
 
Vctony
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RE: AA Switching From CDG To Orly

Sat Jun 26, 2004 1:03 pm

As I recall correctly, AA didn't move from ORY to CDG until late 1999 or early 2000 (the photos in this database show the approximate time frame) as all of the AA photos pre-2000 are at ORY and the post-2000 photos are at CDG. Plus, I remember being at CDG in March of 1999 and noticing that AA was very noticably not at that airport.
 
rjpieces
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RE: AA Switching From CDG To OrlyW

Sat Jun 26, 2004 1:14 pm

What advantages did Orly have that AA liked back in 1996?
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
wgw2707
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RE: AA Switching From CDG To Orly

Sat Jun 26, 2004 1:42 pm

I think what would be ideal would be if AA moved to ORY, and if Aeroports de Paris paid for the expenses. That would be fair enough, since ADP were the ones who forced them into CDG in the first place. Kind of funny how ADP made them move to CDG, and now want them to move back...

-WGW2707
 
jsnww81
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RE: AA Switching From CDG To Orly

Sat Jun 26, 2004 2:47 pm

Honestly, I found CDG to be much more convenient than Orly when I visited Paris last month. I don't blame American for wanting to stay.

While CDG is further out of the city than ORY, express trains are available that only make one stop (at Gare du Nord) before continuing into the city at Chatelet-Les Halles. From Orly to the center of Paris, one must take the Orlyval monorail to the RER line, which then stops six or seven times before arriving at Les Halles. The trip ended up taking about fifteen minutes longer.

As for facilities, I didn't find CDG-2A to be that bad. Both of my AA flights out of CDG arrived at a contact gate with a jetbridge. Granted, I saw many flights parked on remote stands using buses to deplane, but all of the US carriers were using airbridges. This seems to be the norm at most overseas airports - US airlines somehow always wind up at jetbridges. Maybe because Americans are more prone to slipping on steps, falling over and suing everything that isn't tied down.
 
cx123
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RE: AA Switching From CDG To Orly

Sat Jun 26, 2004 2:52 pm

I must say both CDG and ORY are shitty airports, but I personally prefer ORY (due to the proximity to the city).
I really think BA should move to ORY (especially when most of the business pax will actually goto the city).
Currently I think only IB is the only Oneworld airline operating at ORY.
 
B747-437B
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RE: AA Switching From CDG To Orly

Sat Jun 26, 2004 3:11 pm

Americans are more prone to slipping on steps, falling over

Now now, no need to make fun of Gerald Ford like that...
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MAH4546
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RE: AA Switching From CDG To Orly

Sat Jun 26, 2004 3:41 pm

Despite American's "refusal", I definitley see think this has a strong chance of happening.

American was the last US airline to switch from Orly to CDG. I believe they switched back 1 May 1999. They did not want to switch, becuase they made a nice profit as the only major carrier between the US and Orly. Orly is closer to downtown Paris and far less congested. I think American's resentment stems more from the costs associated with such a move, rather than them thinking they can't make a profitable operation at Orly. If the ADP offered to pay for those expenses (which is very reasonable, IMO), I think it stands a good chance.

It is ironic though, because AA held out at ORY for as long as they could, they loved it there, until ADP finally forced them to move to CDG.

a.
 
Leskova
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RE: AA Switching From CDG To Orly

Sat Jun 26, 2004 3:53 pm

As far as I recall, it wasn't just AA being forced out - a while back, France wanted to restrict Orly to, if I'm not mistaken, domestic, intra-European and intra-"Colony" flights, and I remember a few other airlines also having to move from ORY to CDG (though I really cannot remember which ones).

Regards,
Frank
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RE: AA Switching From CDG To Orly

Sat Jun 26, 2004 9:17 pm

Delta also used to fly into ORY. But I wouldn't be surprised if they stay in CDG for ever because they are part of the SkyTeam alliance, American isn't. Yes it is kind of strange to see American moving back to ORY, but if AA does and Delta doesn't I would't be surprised. If that happens then American will no longer have agreements with Thalys, a European railways company operaing high speed trains. Only Air France will continue to work with Thalys.

Ben Soriano
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Thrust
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RE: AA Switching From CDG To Orly

Sun Jun 27, 2004 12:38 am

I remember when AA used to bring their DC-10-30s and MD-11s to Orly. Didn't they also fly their A300s there at one time too? And when did they switch from Orly to CDG? Back to the past everybody Big grin
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LH423
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RE: AA Switching From CDG To Orly

Sun Jun 27, 2004 1:07 am

Yes, Thrust. AA used to operate A300s from Boston and, I believe, JFK before switching them to 767s, but I believe that was done after the flights moved to CDG.

I find this funny since AA went to CDG practically kicking and screaming because business travellers preferred ORY due to it's closer proximity to city centre Paris. I supose now business travellers have become accustomed to having to use CDG and may prefer it now. And I can see AA's arguments that a move would be costly and would take a long time to plan and execute, but maybe it would be good for them. They could exclusively serve the US from ORY, cashing in on those where ORY is a better option and also business travellers who prefer ORY. I'm sure they still exist.

LH423

[Edited 2004-06-26 18:13:06]
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GLA MD11
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RE: AA Switching From CDG To Orly

Sun Jun 27, 2004 2:15 am

Do not forget that ORY has reached its capacity and that it will be difficult to increase trafic there on a permanent basis (because of neighboring cities complains). ADP is only suggesting temporary re-dispatching, while the 2E terminal is repaired / reconstructed or another facility opens. That explains why most of the companies are not interested.
Just my 2 cts.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Switching From CDG To Orly

Sun Jun 27, 2004 2:56 am

Do not forget that ORY has reached its capacity and that it will be difficult to increase trafic there on a permanent basis (because of neighboring cities complains).

Orly is operating at only 80% capacity, and while it is suggested the airline moves will be only temporary, if American moves, I don't think it will be temporary, it will likely be pretty permanent because of the costs associated with moving.
a.
 
scottysair
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RE: AA Switching From CDG To Orly

Sun Jun 27, 2004 3:02 am

Is that AA use into ORY some of long time ago, didn't they?
 
TexAussie
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RE: AA Switching From CDG To Orly

Sun Jun 27, 2004 1:03 pm

If ADP needs AA to move, ADP should pay the costs... it was their building/engineering that caused the whole mess anyway.

 
ssides
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RE: AA Switching From CDG To Orly

Sun Jun 27, 2004 1:36 pm

Is that AA use into ORY some of long time ago, didn't they?

It wasn't a long time ago. AA was the last US airline to use ORY, and they switched to CDG within the past five years (I want to say 1999 or 2000, but I may be wrong).
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