Demoose
Topic Author
Posts: 1891
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2001 8:06 am

Is It Ever Too Late To Do A Go-Around?

Sat Jun 26, 2004 4:59 am

Hi,

I've just got back from Tenerife today, and whilst I was waiting at the airport for my flight home to the UK I, like many people, was watching the inbound aircraft coming into land. Anyway a Hapag Lloyd 737 with winglets was coming into land and was floating way down the runway obviously struggling to get the plane on the ground - at around halfway down the runway the pilot managed to get the rear landing gear on the runway but the nose gear was still high in the air, and I didn't see the spoilers deploy, the pilot was running out of runway and so had to apply full power for a go around. I'm just curious to know if there's a point where once the plane is down its too late to abort and go around - I know pilots do loads of touch and go excercises so I guess its a case of ensuring you either have enough runway to stop or to take off again.

It was just a interesting thing I saw today, i've never seen an aircraft do a go around once the main gear is on the ground thats all.

Thanks,
Mark
Take a ride...fly across the sky
 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2365
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm

Is It Ever Too Late To Do A Go-Around?

Sat Jun 26, 2004 5:03 am

IMO, once you have below the minimum runway left to return to flying speed is the cutoff point. It's the pilot's call.
 
767-332ER
Posts: 1974
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2001 1:20 pm

RE: Is It Ever Too Late To Do A Go-Around?

Sat Jun 26, 2004 5:14 am

I suppose the point where either crew member calls "OH S***!!!" is when it's too late.
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
 
Max Q
Posts: 5645
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

RE: Is It Ever Too Late To Do A Go-Around?

Sat Jun 26, 2004 8:58 am

At my airline the go-around option is available until thrust reverser deployment.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
frjmx328
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 4:20 am

RE: Is It Ever Too Late To Do A Go-Around?

Sat Jun 26, 2004 9:36 am

If the spoilers didn't pop than he wasn't weight on wheels, or he was still in ground effect. In other words, even though the aircraft had the mains down, the aircraft weight was still being supported by the wings. If the mains were WOW, than you would have auto spoiler deployment, thus spoiling any remaining lift and allowing the bird to settle. You would also have the auto brakes engage, and you would have problably seen a full TR deployment, and max effort braking. The PF problably realized his situation and opted for the go-around while the bird was still in ground effect, actuall he problably opted for the go around before you actually saw him lift off the ground. CFM-56's take a couple seconds to spool up, and get high on the power curve. While it sounds like the NFP should have been yelling bullshit, bullshit ( technical term for go around ) we don't know what the surface winds were doing or runway length, or aircraft weight. Was he hot on final? Lots of factors could be worked in here. In the end though, all's well that ends well.

[Edited 2004-06-26 02:40:02]
 
CX Flyboy
Posts: 6040
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: Is It Ever Too Late To Do A Go-Around?

Sat Jun 26, 2004 11:51 am

At my airline it is the same as Max Q's. Once reverse thrust has been selected, even if it is only idle, you are comitted to a landing. Even if you land and the spoilers deploy, that's ok....you just retract them and go, but the selection of reversers, then putting them away takes far too long to then allow the engines to spool up and go-around. The decision to go would (or should) be obvious long before the selection of reverse.
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: Is It Ever Too Late To Do A Go-Around?

Sat Jun 26, 2004 12:01 pm

When doing Cat III landings in the simulator we often have to make a rejected landing at just about touchdown. If the thrust levers are moved forward toward TOGA the speed brakes should retract and, of course, the reversers will have been stowed by the interlock. The instructors will stress that we continue, even if the plane touches down.

The time for a pilot to make the decision is long before that if it is just because of an unstabilized approach. Lots of airlines want approaches stabilized by 1000' above touchdown and require that they be stabilized by no lower than 500' in visual conditions.

"Stabilized" should include on course, on glidepath, configured for landing, in trim, on speed, rate of descent stabilized to fly the glidepath and power set for the descent rate. All of this should come where the plane is in a position to make the landing. Cleared to land is even better!

Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
Max Q
Posts: 5645
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

RE: Is It Ever Too Late To Do A Go-Around?

Sat Jun 26, 2004 1:23 pm

Slamclick

You say 'the reversers will be 'stowed by the interlock' On the 757/767 and all
other jet transports I have flown, Boeing & Douglas, reverse has to be cancelled before forward thrust is allowed, the levers will physically not move forward (thats your interlock) and that, along with the engines probably being unspooled or at a very low power setting results in a major time lag for (both hopefully) tr's to stow and the engines to reaccelerate.

Perhaps I misunderstood your post but to imply that a go-around is practical or even safe on any landing Cat111 or visual, after reverse is selected I think is misleading.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.