MAH4546
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AA Mainline To Leave CLE

Sat Jun 26, 2004 6:47 am

American Airlines will end mainline service to Cleveland at the end of the summer, 8 September. They current operate two daily flights to Chicago O'Hare and Miami. The new schedule has not been confirmed, but the word is the Chicago flight will be replaced by one Eagle flight and the Miami flight with two Eagle flights.

PR:
http://www.aa.com/content/amrcorp/pressReleases/2004_06/24_cleveland.jhtml
a.
 
upsmd11
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RE: AA Mainline To Leave CLE

Sat Jun 26, 2004 6:49 am

I hope mainline doesn't leave SDF as well. I am sorry to hear about CLE. We currently have all Eagle flights to ORD and half of our 4 daily flights to DFW operated by mainline and the other half by Eagle.

I thought things were getting better.

John
 
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ERJ170
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RE: AA Mainline To Leave CLE

Sat Jun 26, 2004 6:54 am

On a seperate note.. does anyone know which gate AE will use at PVD? I"m flying RDU-PVD N/S July 2 and wondering which gate? I know PVD has a "universal" RJ gate (20 I think).
Aiming High and going far..
 
redngold
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RE: AA Mainline To Leave CLE

Sat Jun 26, 2004 6:55 am

Well, seeing as we've already got the following service:
ORD - Atlantic Coast, American Eagle, ExpressJet, United
MDW - ExpressJet, Southwest

Eagle already served the route before we started getting mainline AA, which was only reinstated when we lost STL.

It's no surprise that Eagle will pick up MIA, either. American's only been flying one mainline to/from CLE for as long as I've been spotting.

No biggie here. The big deal is WN going head to head with HP serving/connecting in PHX, starting Sept. 8.

[Edited 2004-06-25 23:57:08]
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optionscle
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RE: AA Mainline To Leave CLE

Sat Jun 26, 2004 6:55 am

That's really unfortunate. I've been taking the AA CLE-MIA flight once a year for the past 15. I remember the good old days when that was on a 727, my favorite. I'll miss their mad dogs here in Cleveland. Has anyone got an idea what type will assume the CLE-MIA route? Continental runs an ERJ-145XR down there to supplement the 737 service, but Eagle doesn't have an XR's. Maybe CRJ-700's?

-Andrew
 
redngold
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RE: AA Mainline To Leave CLE

Sat Jun 26, 2004 6:58 am

Options -- welcome to the boards!

I'd guess they'd use a CR7 just like what they're doing to DFW.
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MAH4546
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RE: AA Mainline To Leave CLE

Sat Jun 26, 2004 6:58 am

Has anyone got an idea what type will assume the CLE-MIA route?

Most likely three daily ERJ-140s/ERJ-145s, though possibly only two daily.
a.
 
goose29
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RE: AA Mainline To Leave CLE

Sat Jun 26, 2004 7:25 am

that is really bad for those guys. i have talked to some of them on the bus ride in. they are good people.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Mainline To Leave CLE

Sat Jun 26, 2004 7:50 am

I thought things were getting better.

They are, much better, thanks to nessecary moves such as this one.
a.
 
StevenUhl777
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RE: AA Mainline To Leave CLE

Sat Jun 26, 2004 7:55 am

I expect to see more of this type of cutback in service, and not just limited to AA. It's plainly obvious that for most domestic routes, the legacy carriers just can't compete anymore, as everyone is looking for the cheapest possible ticket.

And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
scottysair
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RE: AA Mainline To Leave CLE

Sat Jun 26, 2004 8:14 am

This is not good for service to CLE and will make reduce with some of those flight to ORD, MIA & DFW.
 
PVD757
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RE: AA Mainline To Leave CLE

Sat Jun 26, 2004 9:55 pm

ERJ170: American Eagle will use gate 12 at PVD. AA leases 2 gates in PVD 12 & 14. Gate 14 is the only one with a jetbridge, so gate 12 is a "ground level" boarding gate only. You'll use the stairs to get inside the concourse. The PVD-RDU loads are very good already - a 4th flight comes online 9/8/04. From what I've been told, gate 20 is going to be the new gate for Independance Air.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: AA Mainline To Leave CLE

Sat Jun 26, 2004 10:11 pm

Yeah, actually, from what I can tell, the RDU-PVD flights are looking pretty darn excellent. Perhaps an upgrade will be in order soon. I've checked some random flights between July and September and there are only a few seats available on most flights. You would think someone else would have noticed this lack of service before. Thanks for the info! Later days!
Aiming High and going far..
 
ARCJET
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RE: AA Mainline To Leave CLE

Sun Jun 27, 2004 2:46 am

Why don't the Big six just sell all their medium-short range jets and outsource
the routes to their regional carriers. This is SAD, what has American commerical avaiton come too? Cramped little airplanes flying long distances to take customers to the Mainline's 767-300s to go overseas. I want my 727s back!
Charleston, SC
 
AIR757200
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RE: AA Mainline To Leave CLE

Sun Jun 27, 2004 3:38 am


Let's look beyond whether or not CLE as an airport itself is profitable...

You have AA employees (94 as mentioned), CLE is fairly senior in terms of AA wages; working 17 flights per weekday and only two flights are mainline- the remaining 15 are Eagle (88%).

Why would AA continue to pay the station AA wages, when they can simply close the station (as they are doing) and convert the entire operation to Eagle and therefore spending way less on labor- increasing profitability of the station?

Now, these 94 will either: take a package (if eligible), transfer elsewhere in the AA system, or apply to Eagle.

Now here's the catch: at a later time, AA can simply add back one or two mainline flights and continue to have Eagle agents work mainline (i.e. RSW, etc.).

It's unfortunate, however, it was bound to happen.
 
N766UA
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RE: AA Mainline To Leave CLE

Sun Jun 27, 2004 3:39 am

They won't cut the LGA flights down as well, will they? I think we have 3 a day right now.
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uadc8contrail
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RE: AA Mainline To Leave CLE

Sun Jun 27, 2004 3:46 am

AIR757200,
well put, look at the smaller cities that ual still serves and it usually just 1 or 2 ua mainline and alot of uax, if ua is looking to cut costs that is one thing i would expect to see......just out of curiosity,,,what does a topped out AA ground worker make??is it the same in cle as well as dfw or ord???
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Mainline To Leave CLE

Sun Jun 27, 2004 3:54 am

They won't cut the LGA flights down as well, will they? I think we have 3 a day right now.

No, they are actually adding a fourth-daily CLE-LGA service on 1 October.
a.
 
dan2002
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RE: AA Mainline To Leave CLE

Sun Jun 27, 2004 6:27 am

Damn, every year, my family and I go to LAS to visit some family we have out there. The past 2 years we flew AA MD-82's. I loved the way those things climb, I dont care about IFE, or a meal. We even sat in the back, one row in front of the engines. Pretty cool to watch on takeoff and landing. I didnt IFE, all I needed was the window, my CD player, and a laptop which I hardly used. It was a plesant flight, and its sad to see AA mainline leave. Just the other day, there was a AA 738 in here, still cant figure out why. But a plesant supprise. Its too bad, but I guess its necessary. But what makes the day even worse is the fact that AA is retiring their F-100's that day too. I have never flown the type, so Sept.8 is going to be lightly depressing to me.


-Dan

[Edited 2004-06-26 23:31:25]
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luv2fly
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RE: AA Mainline To Leave CLE

Sun Jun 27, 2004 6:43 am

AIR757200

Has hit the nail on the head, switch to an all eagle operation and then gradually add back mainline, all the benefits without all the pay.....
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
AIR757200
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RE: AA Mainline To Leave CLE

Sun Jun 27, 2004 9:20 am

what does a topped out AA ground worker make??

Customer service(L42): near $21/hr. (snap to max after 11 years of service).


Edit: I'm fairly sure it's that amount, but not 100% positive.

[Edited 2004-06-27 02:23:06]
 
MD-90
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RE: AA Mainline To Leave CLE

Sun Jun 27, 2004 12:00 pm

In the 2000 census, Cleveland had 478,000 people. Huntsville only has 130,000 people, and yet we have mainline AA service. Geez...
 
milesrich
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RE: AA Mainline To Leave CLE

Sun Jun 27, 2004 12:15 pm

To MD 90: HSV does not have a major legacy airline hub, CLE does (CO).

To all of you that think the way to success is to fire mainline employees and replace them with subsidiary carrier or contract people at $8.00 - $10.00 per hour, perhaps we should replace you or your parents with these type of workers. Let's flood the US with immigrants, both legal and illegal, and then maybe we can drive the price of labor down even lower. Never mind that we will end up with an economy like Venezuela, or Honduras.
 
ckfred
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RE: AA Mainline To Leave CLE

Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:29 am

You also have to remember that AA is retiring the F100s as of September 8. Some of the Fokker routes will see MD-80s as partial or full replacement of Fokker service. So, AA has to pull the MD-80s from other routes.

What bothers me is, according to the 2003 AMR annual report, that there are 28 MD-80s sitting in the desert. Some or all of these could be returned to service, so that the ERJs and CRJs don't have to fly so many routes better suited for mainline aircraft.
 
AIR757200
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RE: AA Mainline To Leave CLE

Mon Jun 28, 2004 5:44 am

Milesrich,

I don't like it either, being a former AA'er myself. But in terms of CLE, it's understandable that AA would want to convert the operation to AE b/c of the vast majority are AE flights.

I can tell you that nearby AA stations are a bit nervous as they await whether or not they may get bumped by any CLE transfers.

In any case, the legacy employees are very senior and they won't take the package that is out on the table now. My former station, the average senority was at least 13-15 years (therefore the majority of agents/ramp were at max pay) and there was a zero turnover rate.
 
MD-90
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RE: AA Mainline To Leave CLE

Wed Jun 30, 2004 2:31 pm

To MD 90: HSV does not have a major legacy airline hub, CLE does (CO).

I considerd that. I was just wondering how such a city couldn't still profitably support at least an MD-80. Especially since it's largely an ERJ hub, is it not?
 
flyCMH
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RE: AA Mainline To Leave CLE

Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:08 am

In the 2000 census, Cleveland had 478,000 people. Huntsville only has 130,000 people, and yet we have mainline AA service. Geez...

Comparing the populations of Cleveland and Huntsville (city populations no less) as a determining factor of the reasoning behind American serving HSV with mainline aircraft while serving CLE with all regional is rediculous at best.

First off, you're comparing four-year old city populations, which means essentially nothing. The metropolitan area statistic are much more accurate to an airport's potential catchment area. Also, look at the two cities you're comparing: Cleveland - a major metropolitan area of nearly 3 million people surrounded by many other major metropolitan areas with a large airline hub (Continental), decent Southwest presence, and a secondary airport with almost as many flights as HSV has total. Huntsville, with a metro population of 358,000 (2003 est.) is located in the middle of nowhere, has no airline hub, no secondary airport, no low fare carriers, and has no nonstop service to 5 of the city's top 10 O&D destinations (per the Port of Huntsville). Geez...
 
Thrust
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RE: AA Mainline To Leave CLE

Thu Jul 01, 2004 3:03 am

I knew it would happen....it was only a matter of time. AA really doesn't have much use for CLE anyway...
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
Spoon04
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RE: AA Mainline To Leave CLE

Thu Jul 01, 2004 3:21 am

Sad to see AA departing CLE as they've been a strong and solid presence here for decades. If AA feels strongly in downgrading CLE to an all-Eagle station, everyone in BUF, ROC, SYR, ALB, CMH and PIT better be on guard as well. The traveling public had better acclimate themselves to all regional jet service, and AA employees are about to contemplate and deal with the ever-dreaded bumping and relocation process. It's a sad, sad state of affairs. I'm just glad I decided to jettison the industry I loved for years. And so it goes...
 
zrb2
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RE: AA Mainline To Leave CLE

Thu Jul 01, 2004 3:43 am

Spoon: BUF, ROC (and I think SYR) have had Eagle only service for a while now....maybe even two years. We haven't seen a shiny Mad Dog in Buffalo for too long. AA was supposed to start seasonal MD-80 service BUF-DFW this summer but for some reason it vanished.

As an example of how much AA downgraded at BUF, they cut seat availability by 50% between Aug. 2002 and Sept. 2003.

 
flyCMH
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RE: AA Mainline To Leave CLE

Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:52 am

CMH (and DAY) are most definitely next in line for getting mainline knocked off. AA is down to only 4 flights a day to DFW from Columbus, while Dayton is down to only two. American and American Eagle's presence is certainly larger in CMH than in any other Ohio city, but I don't think their 30+ flights a day is enough of a presence to sustain mainline to DFW, especially when 3 of the 7 total daily flights are already on ERJs.
 
Spoon04
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RE: AA Mainline To Leave CLE

Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:35 am

Zrb2, thanks for the heads-up re Eagle service in NY State. Obviously, I wasn't aware of the downgrading which has taken place. I'm still in a bit of a daze with respect to AA saying "Adios" to CLE. As a child growing up in Buffalo, I can remember AA being the predominant airline with DC-6's, Electras, BAC-400's and 727's. Such a shame times have changed so drastically...
 
zrb2
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RE: AA Mainline To Leave CLE

Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:50 pm

I hear ya Spoon. I used to go to the BUF airport w/ my dad as a kid in the 70's and take pictures of the AA DC-10 that was in regular service. I knew even back then it was unusual to have a widebody serve a smaller airport and that it eventually would end. Too bad about CLE. That is somewhat of a surprise to lose AA mainline but not a shock to me.
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
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Re: No More Mainline In CLE

Sun Jul 04, 2004 1:55 am

Here is the new Miami-Cleveland schedule:

AA 4286 MIA 1115-1410 CLE ER4 Daily
AA 4498 MIA 1750-2045 CLE ER4 Daily

AA 4499 CLE 0755-1045 MIA ER4 Daily
AA 4350 CLE 1440-1530 MIA ER4 Daily

a.
 
smcmac32msn
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RE: AA Mainline To Leave CLE

Sun Jul 04, 2004 2:59 am

MD 90 - HSV (I assume thats the Huntsville your talking about) is a great airport and I enjoyed going through there in April.

Its very sad to see mainline AA leaving CLE considering how they have flights to MIA, DFW, and LGA and those are all going to be on RJ's. I hope for the passengers sake, that they atleast use the ERJ's on the route so they can watch out the windows. CRJ's suck for any normal sized person to try to watch outside.
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
N766UA
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RE: AA Mainline To Leave CLE

Sun Jul 04, 2004 5:27 am

CRJ's suck for any normal sized person to try to watch outside.

Not Eagle's 700s. The windows on the CR7s are much higher up for better visibility. They might even be better than the ERJs. I'd rather have seen a CR7 CLE-MIA.
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