keesje
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Subsidy War Could Harm Boeing More Than Airbus

Sat Jun 26, 2004 8:57 pm

"It's ironic that Boeing CEO Harry Stonecipher wants to step up complaints about Airbus 'subsidies,' considering Boeing's 7E7 will have up to $6 billion of 'subsidies' from Japan, Italy and the United States (Washington State)," says Pritchard, who studies the globalization of the commercial aircraft industry.

"But there are two major differences between an Airbus A380 'subsidy' and Boeing 7E7 'subsidy,'" Pritchard points out.

The Airbus subsidy is in the form of repayable loans with interest for aircraft development, which is legal according to the World Trade Organization, Pritchard says. The Boeing subsidy, on the other hand, is for aircraft production, which is prohibited by the WTO and which never will be paid back, he says.

"Boeing has the 7E7 program to lose and very little to gain by entering into a subsidy war with Airbus," Pritchard speculates. "If Boeing loses, is it prepared to pay back the subsidies and increase self-financing for the areas covered by the subsidies? If not, what happens to its 7E7 program?

http://www.buffalo.edu/reporter/vol35/vol35n40/articles/Boeing.html
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777ER
Crew
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RE: Subsidy War Could Harm Boeing More Than Airbus

Sat Jun 26, 2004 9:00 pm

Why can't the CEO of Airbus and Boeing just grow up and just focus on selling planes instead of trying 2 give each other a bad name
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Ruscoe
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RE: Subsidy War Could Harm Boeing More Than Airbus

Sat Jun 26, 2004 9:15 pm

Fortunately these subsidy battles usually involve a lot more than aviation. At a Governmental level they usually both decide they have too much too loose to further the action.

You know, Europe won't get much sympathy from the rest of the world when it comes to subsidies.

Ruscoe
 
Blackbird1331
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RE: Subsidy War Could Harm Boeing More Than Airbus

Sun Jun 27, 2004 1:31 am

Right, like Japan and Italy are idiots and they will get nothing in return. You could, in effect, call the sale of Boeing jets to China subsidized because of all the goods on our store shelves from China. Or, you could call it fair trade.
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elwood64151
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RE: Subsidy War Could Harm Boeing More Than Airbus

Sun Jun 27, 2004 1:45 am

Let the AvB war begin!

Moderators, please delete this thread.
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Blackbird1331
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RE: Subsidy War Could Harm Boeing More Than Airbus

Sun Jun 27, 2004 1:51 am

Elwood, are you one of the "Blues Brothers"? Av.B makes this site worth visiting. They are rivals, you know.
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jwenting
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RE: Subsidy War Could Harm Boeing More Than Airbus

Sun Jun 27, 2004 2:00 am

remember Boeing doesn't get any subsidies from Japan.
Japanese suppliers TO Boeing get special status from the Japanese government because the Japanese have decided that the 7E7 is vital for their economy.

It's not like Airbus who get billions and billions in subsidies directly so they can deliver aircraft beneath production cost with the sole purpose of driving Boeing out of business.
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Ken777
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RE: Subsidy War Could Harm Boeing More Than Airbus

Sun Jun 27, 2004 2:05 am

A lot of the money B got from the state was in the form of cities & states competing with each other to get the plant. This is done every day in the US - cities making sweet offers so a company will move in and provide jobs. I would not be surprised if European cities did the same thing - motivating companies to build jobs in cities. Not a big deal, unless your city is in the competition.

One form of subsidy benefits that A does enjoy over B is medical insurance. Because of the US medical system out insurance rates are through the roof - mine is about $1,000 per month - and this does have a negative impact for B, and does financially benefit A in an indirect cost manner. In other words, A should keep quiet about subsidy benefits.
 
Arrow
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RE: Subsidy War Could Harm Boeing More Than Airbus

Sun Jun 27, 2004 2:20 am

"remember Boeing doesn't get any subsidies from Japan.
Japanese suppliers TO Boeing get special status from the Japanese government because the Japanese have decided that the 7E7 is vital for their economy."


And you're suggesting Boeing doesn't benefit from this, too?

They all get huge subsidies, many of them probably well-hidden. The never-ending exchange of broadsides between Boeing and Airbus is like a couple of kids arguing over who's got the most sand in the sand box.

Now -- if you want to talk subsidies -- go after the US and the EU on agriculture. That's the big leagues. Boeing and Airbus (and Bombardier and Embraer) are penny-ante compared to that.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
Blackbird1331
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RE: Subsidy War Could Harm Boeing More Than Airbus

Sun Jun 27, 2004 2:29 am

One more thing. How the hell could you have a serious discussion about commercial airplanes and not come up with A&B? Get serious. That is the only way you can solve a problem, anyway, and that is to get serious about it. I just read a story about Lockheed Martin backing out of a deal with Titan because of alleged bribes to overseas customers. Reality check.
Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Subsidy War Could Harm Boeing More Than Airbus

Sun Jun 27, 2004 2:40 am

Ken777 & Others

This Pritchard chap that the topic's about is not an Airbus employee. He's an independent research associate at the Canada-United States Trade Center in the UB Department of Geography.

This article is not about Airbus crying foul, but about two researchers attesting to illegal international trade and subsidy practice by Boeing. They cite specific incidents and breaches of international law which if true, cannot be ignored by authorities.

Que sera I guess
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artsyman
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RE: Subsidy War Could Harm Boeing More Than Airbus

Sun Jun 27, 2004 2:55 am

The Airbus subsidy is in the form of repayable loans with interest for aircraft development.
****

While it is clear that both sides bend rules, one of the major issues Boeing has is the fact that many of the loans given to Airbus are only repayable if the line makes a profit, making it a lot easier for Airbus to take new risks.

J
 
Scorpio
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RE: Subsidy War Could Harm Boeing More Than Airbus

Sun Jun 27, 2004 3:11 am

Jwenting,

It's not like Airbus who get billions and billions in subsidies directly so they can deliver aircraft beneath production cost with the sole purpose of driving Boeing out of business.

Are you going to back any of that up with anything close to proof? Or is it as usual with you, where you proclaim your fantasies as facts on here?