SkyTeam7488
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3-Holers With Cargo Airlines

Mon Jun 28, 2004 6:53 am

I've been wondering this forever, but why have the commercial airlines given up on the B727, MD-11, DC-10(ex NW), L1011, when Cargo Airlines can still operate them (except for maybe the latter)

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squirrel83
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RE: 3-Holers With Cargo Airlines

Mon Jun 28, 2004 7:00 am

Operation Costs . . .
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jetjack74
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RE: 3-Holers With Cargo Airlines

Mon Jun 28, 2004 8:54 am

In very vague way, Squirrel83 is right. Along with being antiqated and old, it is cheaper to run those aircraft freighters than as passenger aircraft. They spend alot of time on the ground during the day so that MX work can be done where as passenger aircraft spend an average of 14hrs in the air. Cargo airlines have half the cost of passenger airlines. The aircraft is almost always full with pallets and containers, no cabin attendants which eats in to the bottom line. A 727 or a DC10 can generate some profits because they're cheap aircraft for cargo carriers. It's getting a little harder to find aircraft like that, that are worth the money to convert them.
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VS4ever
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RE: 3-Holers With Cargo Airlines

Mon Jun 28, 2004 9:01 am

It's getting a little harder to find aircraft like that, that are worth the money to convert them

Watch out for the 757, there is already a company up and running to convert them! I suspect these will be the 727NG freighters! and the cost to convert (about $4-5m).


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VS4ever
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RE: 3-Holers With Cargo Airlines

Mon Jun 28, 2004 9:03 am

And I do know the 757 doesn't have 3 holes!
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Ryan h
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RE: 3-Holers With Cargo Airlines

Mon Jun 28, 2004 9:15 am

As people have saide before the older aircraft are used as freighters because they are not in the air all day so maintenence is less of an issue and if an airline continued to use older aircraft on passenger routes the passengers would simply fly with airlines that use newer aircraft.

Here in Australia 727s are no longer used on passenger routes, but there are still some used on freight runs.


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md80fanatic
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RE: 3-Holers With Cargo Airlines

Mon Jun 28, 2004 9:45 am

The MD-11 is NOT old and antiquated. If it takes 186,000 lbs of thrust to propel a 3-holer.....then it would take exactly 186,000 lbs to drive the same plane as a 2-holer. 2 bigger engines or 3 smaller ones, what's the difference other than the numerical count of engines? Having three leaves more options if one fails. It all comes out in the wash.

The only reason 2 engines clone planes are so popular is the same reason SUV's are popular.....because that is the current sales pitch. Everyone wants, no demands, everything to be bigger and bigger every year. Who wants those teeny weeny engines when you can have the bright shiny new mega monsters that barely fit under a wing. Look at the 777 and the 380....need I say more?

 
starrion
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RE: 3-Holers With Cargo Airlines

Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:32 am

Actually the reason a twin is more popular is one less engine equals one less engine to maintain and overhaul. Engines are expensive and when the third engine is someplace inconvienent to get to (like a tall tail) it's more difficult to boot.

Twins also use less fuel on average.

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aussie747
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RE: 3-Holers With Cargo Airlines

Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:34 am

In Australia DHL operates a Canary Yellow 727-200ADV(F) for it's services


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jetjack74
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RE: 3-Holers With Cargo Airlines

Mon Jun 28, 2004 11:33 am

Ok with the exception to the MD11, all the rest are getting a little long in the tooth. The MD11's problem was the fact that much more competitive replacements already in the works when the MD11 was introduced. It was just over 10 years ago that the MD11 was inaugurated, and already it is out of both US fleets who ordered it. The MD11 will have a long and very prosperous career as a freighter. Still a very good airplane, just grew old before it's time. Shame. But the 727's, and DC10's are alive and well over here in the states. Many airlines such as DHL, FedEx, Kalitta, and UPS operate large fleets of 3 holers
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adriaticus
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RE: 3-Holers With Cargo Airlines

Mon Jun 28, 2004 2:48 pm

<< The only reason 2 engines clone planes are so popular is the same reason SUV's are popular.....because that is the current sales pitch. Everyone wants, no demands, everything to be bigger and bigger every year. Who wants those teeny weeny engines when you can have the bright shiny new mega monsters that barely fit under a wing. Look at the 777 and the 380....need I say more? >> (Md80fanatic)

Last time I checked, the 380 was scheduled to have 4 engines...

FedEx's three-holer fleet includes 30 MD11F's, 59 MD10-30F's, 29 DC10-10F's, 95 B722F's and 67 B721F's. Total 280 three-holers Big thumbs up (in addition to its huge widebody Airbus fleet).

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<< It was just over 10 years ago that the MD11 was inaugurated, and already it is out of both US fleets who ordered it. The MD11 will have a long and very prosperous career as a freighter. Still a very good airplane, just grew old before it's time. Shame. >>

Not that fast... It's still pretty active in top commercial carriers of the world.


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jetjack74
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RE: 3-Holers With Cargo Airlines

Mon Jun 28, 2004 7:43 pm

I was referring to AA and DL, but very true that they are still with some of it's original operators.
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