adriaticus
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Aerolíneas Argentinas To Beijing?

Tue Jun 29, 2004 4:08 pm

President Kirchner or Argentina is currently in an official visit to China. One of the members of his entourage was quoted today saying an agreement "will be signed as for Aerolineas Argentinas to connect Beijing and Buenos Aires, carrying passengers and freight".

MEX/REFORM01/00515/00515198.htm&palabra=Kirchner&sitereforma> (in Spanish)

Now, THAT would be an interesting flight to plan... More than 10,500nm... I guess it would have to be either transpolar (Antarctica!!), or via LAX... Or MAD... Actually, via MAD would be some 350nm shorter...

__Ad.

A300/18/19/20/21 B721/2 B732/3/G/8 B741/2/4 B752 B762/3/4 B772/3 DC8/9/10 MD11 TU134/154 IL62/86 An24 SA340/2000 E45/90
 
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yyz717
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RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas To Beijing?

Tue Jun 29, 2004 4:45 pm

It's completely illogical. There are no business or ethnic ties between China & Argentina.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Spike
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RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas To Beijing?

Tue Jun 29, 2004 4:52 pm

Every country in the world has business ties with China. Its tr world's factory and (cheap) labour force. I think Argentina's trade is raw materials.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas To Beijing?

Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:08 pm

I meant no relative ties or ties sufficient enough to warrant airline service.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Spike
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RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas To Beijing?

Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:21 pm

I would have thought a percentage of 1.3 billion people would be interested to see Argentina. A lot visit Canada yet there is nothing to see or do there...
 
LVZXV
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RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas To Beijing?

Tue Jun 29, 2004 8:11 pm

Yyz717:

There are actually ethnic ties between the two countries and China was, until a few months ago, Argentina's largest export market for soybeans.
The Asian routes were thought out last year, and were to include Beijing and Tokyo, via Madrid.
The next announcement, at the start of this year, was that Beijing and Shanghai would be launched on May 28 using a B747-400 via Madrid. From Buenos Aires, the return flight would be: EZE-MAD-PEK-PVG-MAD-EZE.
At a press conference in Buenos Aires on May 27, in which AR Veep J.M. Llodrá announced the incorporation of 49 "new" Boeings between now and 2009, Llodrá explained to me that the Chinese route had not been launched because a few bilateral agreements hadn't been signed yet. However, he said AR was still conisdering as to whether Madrid or Sydney was a better stopping point.
I'm sure Kirchner and Chinese counterparts will sign the necessary agreements.
Incidentally, AR served Hong Kong in the 1980s via Auckland...

XV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
soups
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RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas To Beijing?

Tue Jun 29, 2004 8:23 pm

r they enought pax between the two countries tho?
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
latinaviation
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RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas To Beijing?

Tue Jun 29, 2004 8:40 pm

This has been discussed before. I believe the flight will route through MAD with a 747-400, while RG's will route through MUC.
 
miaskies
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RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas To Beijing?

Tue Jun 29, 2004 8:50 pm

What about EZE - BEIJING VIA SYDNEY ON B 744?
Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
 
keno
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RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas To Beijing?

Tue Jun 29, 2004 8:50 pm

There are no business or ethnic ties between China & Argentina

No business?
China makes business with everyone, and the upper/middle class Chinese travels to *everywhere*

No ethnic ties?
Since when is that a main factor? There's hardly any ethnic ties between South Africa and East Asia but yet SQ, MH, CX, SA are all doing very well.
 
LVZXV
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RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas To Beijing?

Tue Jun 29, 2004 10:37 pm

I agree with the comments about ethnic ties not being too important. I have never come across a Malaysian-Argentine (Chinese/Japanese/Korean-Argentines yes, however), yet MH is the only Asian carrier you can find at EZE. Business and tourism are more important, and MH is the gateway to Africa (CPT, JNB) and Asia (KUL) for most Argentines. The load factor is generally good.

XV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
Argentina
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RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas To Beijing?

Tue Jun 29, 2004 10:40 pm

This week there are some people from Aerolineas Argentinas in Beijing, trying to bring the papers signed! Bilaterals should be ready soon. So flights could start before the end of the year. Definitely EZE-MAD-PEK is better in distance and traffic than EZE-SYD-PEK.

Are will have a strong competence from neighbour Varig, as they are starting flights also this year, on the route GRU-MUC-PEK, 4 weekly flights, codeshared with Air China.
 
LVZXV
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RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas To Beijing?

Tue Jun 29, 2004 10:46 pm

MIASkies:

Like I said, a month ago AR was still considering SYD over MAd as the stop en-route to PEK and PVG. I don't know what final decision has been/will be made. Both could work. In my opinion, AKL could also work, but I'm not a member of the Marsans board so my opinion doesn't count.
But for sure, whichever city is chosen, AR will employ the B744. The only problem is that the second (former C-FCRA), as far as I know, has yet to be delivered, so that too could be delaying the inauguration of the flight since it was due for delivery in time for the scheduled launch of the PEK/PVG service on May 28. AR's other B744, LV-ALJ, is currently assigned solely on the EZE-MAD-EZE route.

XV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
LVZXV
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RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas To Beijing?

Tue Jun 29, 2004 10:49 pm

Argentina:

Quick off-topic question: Do you know the latest on the A4 MD-11s?

XV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
Spike
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RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas To Beijing?

Tue Jun 29, 2004 11:00 pm

Well, if you can do Singapore - Newark, you can do Buenos Aries - Shanghai / Beijing. I think Beijing now has more foreign airlines serving it than Bangkok or Tokyo?
 
Argentina
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RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas To Beijing?

Tue Jun 29, 2004 11:09 pm

XV: I have no info about that, but I guess something is happening in A4.

Today I read in Infobae (www.infobae.com) that between August and September, A4 will add 2 weekly flights in EZE-MAD route, up o 6 flights weekly. Also have found they are having a charter on Sundays to CUN from July, and PUJ-CUN since August. It's not possible to make these charters plus the MAD flight with only one B763. Check this from Res systems:

Same day flights?????????

A46420/11JUL
EZE MAD 21:15 14:15+1 B767

A46900/11JUL
EZE CUN 12:30 19:20 B767 CHARTER
A46901/11JUL
CUN EZE 21:20 07:35+1 B767 CHARTER


And from August
A46902/08AUG
EZE PUJ 12:30 19:00 B767 CHARTER
PUJ CUN 20:00 21:45 B767 CHARTER
CUN EZE 23:15 09:30 ‡1 B767 CHARTER

The report also says MD11's will be arriving on a monthly basis, 1 by 1, from August.

So take your own conclusions...By the way, I added you to my Respected Users List  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
latinaviation
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RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas To Beijing?

Tue Jun 29, 2004 11:09 pm

I heard GECAS pulled out of the A4 MD-11 deal b/c A4 didn't have Argentine approval for EZE-MEX/FCO and EZE-MEX went to AR.
 
LVZXV
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RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas To Beijing?

Tue Jun 29, 2004 11:22 pm

Argentina:

Thank you. As you say, all those flights are too much for a single B767. They'll need more.

Latin Aviation:

I know A4 lost the rights to MEx and negotiations went awry with GECAS, but according to two fairly reliable Argentine sources, A4 will be acquiring at least 2 MD-11s. Would you know how many ILFC or PEGA have on offer?
The autumn edition of Argentine magazine "LV" (Lima Victor) published something about A4 also looking at B747s (-200s, -300s or -400s, it didn't specify), whereas "Avion Revue" mentioned something about a pair of B767-200ERs. I've heard no confirmation since.

XV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
Argentina
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RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas To Beijing?

Wed Jun 30, 2004 12:31 am

LVZXV:

Check these schedules for just a couple of days. How are they doing these flights with only one B767? Definitely impossible. Anybody knows which is the second aircraft?

11JUL SUN A46900 EZECUN 12:30 19:20 767
11JUL SUN A46901 CUNEZE 21:20 07:35‡1 767

11JUL SUN A46420 EZEMAD 21:15 14:15‡1 767
12JUL MON A46421 MADEZE 23:00 06:45‡1 767
12JUL MON A46420 EZEMAD 13:00 06:00‡1 767
13JUL TUE A46421 MADEZE 11:00 18:45 767
13JUL TUE A46420 EZEMAD 21:15 14:15‡1 767
14JUL WED A46421 MADEZE 23:00 06:45‡1 767
15JUL THU A46420 EZEMAD 13:00 06:00‡1 767
16JUL FRI A46421 MADEZE 11:00 18:45 767
16JUL FRI A46420 EZEMAD 21:15 14:15‡1 767
17JUL SAT A46421 MADEZE 23:00 06:45‡1 767
17JUL SAT A46420 EZEMAD 13:00 06:00‡1 767
18JUL SUN A46421 MADEZE 11:00 18:45 767
18JUL SUN A46420 EZEMAD 21:15 14:15‡1 767
 
Derico
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RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas To Beijing?

Wed Jun 30, 2004 12:56 am

I disagree with Yyz717's philosophy, even if from a strickly business-operational point of view he may have a point.

Sometimes you have to build the road first for people to travel it... look at the development expressways bring when they are built.

I hope other routes follow, but they MUST be made in tandem with strong efforts to attract business and permanent tourist flows in that route both ways, then that way the link will be successful, I think that's what the ARG authorities don't realize sometimes.

I do think China's econom is just so cartoonishly overhyped right now, still the world is falling all over itself to make deals with them...

edit- LV... you still have that 'Monaco' flag on... C'mon dude, don't show us your that lazy!  Smile

[Edited 2004-06-29 17:58:12]
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
LVZXV
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RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas To Beijing?

Wed Jun 30, 2004 12:56 am

There is no second aircraft. UX (Air Europa) and A4 frequently swap on the EZE-MAD/MAD-EZE sector. To the best of my knowledge, LV-AIX usually flies the route 3 times weekly, while UX 767s (they have several) make up for the rest. Every flight, by the way, is:

EZE-MAD A46420/UX042
MAD-EZE A46421/UX041

And you have onward connections from EZE with A4 and MAd with UX. A month ago I went EZE-MAD-LGW with an A4/UX combo in Business for US$1,390. It's not bad.
Sorry for straying off topic, but there is little left to be discussed on the AR flights to China, unless anyone can say for sure:

1. When the flights are starting.
2. Whether MAD or SYD will be the stop over (how about EZE-MAD-PEK-PVG-SYD-EZE? You avoid the jetstream!  Big grin)
3. Why the flights are starting.

XV



[Edited 2004-06-29 18:14:20]
How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
EddieDude
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RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas To Beijing?

Wed Jun 30, 2004 2:29 pm

XV, it seems MAD will be the stopover. At least it has been on the news for quite a while. I can't say for sure but I am pretty certain that AR will even have traffic rights between MAD and PEK.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
LVZXV
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RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas To Beijing?

Wed Jun 30, 2004 9:47 pm

Does anyone know what has happened to AR's 2nd B747-400? It's a month late already. It's needed in order to start the services to PEK and PVG.

XV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas To Beijing?

Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:57 pm

Can a 744 do EZE-SYD non-stop with a reasonable load?

QF used to fly via AKL and EZE-AKL is about 13.5 hours, which is quite long, would be close to 16 hours atleast EZE-SYD non stop, don't no that they could do that.
 
Arcano
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RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas To Beijing?

Thu Jul 01, 2004 3:30 pm

ZK-NBT:
744 range is 7260 nm. EZE is 6366 nm away from SYD, so yes; they could do it with their 744 and their 342.

XV:
EZE-MAD-PEK-PVG-SYD-EZE
It takes 21605 nm (40 012 kms)

EZE-MAD-PEK-PVG-PEK-MAD-EZE
It takes 22015 nm (40 771 kms)

You could save some distance returning via Sydney, but as Eddie Dude say Spain-China rights makes a lot of difference in the decision.

)(
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
matt777
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RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas To Beijing?

Fri Jul 02, 2004 3:01 am

LVZXV: Maybe this explains...
"Air Europa adds 5th Boeing 767
01Jul Air Europa's latest Boeing 767-300 is seen below at Palma after being painted, minus the tail logo. The aircraft is scheduled to retain its Brunei registration for several months."
justplanes.com

Saludos.